The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 26

[Bill Williams]

What is outlined above is the very heart of the inquisitorial method where defense arguments are ignored or arbitrarily dismissed. It parallels the "reasoning" in the Massei court, Chieffi CSC panel, and Nencini court motivation reports.

I remember reading Massei's 2010 account (to support his finding of guilt) about "the clean up". I wanted to see how he'd justified the notion of a clean-up which left 1 of 3 DNA and forensic signatures in the murder room.

The way he dealt with it was by ignoring it. The sum total of his clean-up narrative concerns how the bloody foottrack could have got on the bathroom bathmat with no trailing foottracks **in the hall**.

His resolution? Despite no forensics pointing to a cleanup in the hall, Massei wrote that there must have been one, or else he'd be at a loss to explain how the bathmat foottrack had got there.

No forensics and no falsifiability, and it was now a "judicial truth".

And the notion of a clean in the murderroom officially goes unaddressed.

And all this is before considering that in an adversarial system, it's the **prosecution's** job to lead evidence, not the judge's job to speculate on missing evidence which had not even been put into exhibit.

 

[Stacyhs]

For some reason I get an Italian version!

I think you are talking about the murder of Cinzia Bruno article instead of the other one I linked to in my post you quoted. Mystery solved!

 

[Vixen]

Or for someone to register on the forum with his name. Just saying.

Even if it were to be an existing forum member who decided to spike the guns of this discussion by registering a sock puppet with that name, the chances of being detected are fairly small if the sock never actually posts. As far as I know, it only requires a member with that name to stop all "personal attacks" on that person, the person doesn't need to be an active member or to show that they are actually the person being talked about.

Why would you feel the need to 'personally attack' a member just on Bill Williams' say so?

 

[Vixen]

I am aware that it is not necessarily the actual person simply because they say so. Could be the real deal, could be a member trying to influence matters, could be a random troll, who knows?

However, I would advise caution in that line of speculation, else there might well be another outbreak of yellow card fever.

ROFLMAO

This has to be the epitome of hypocrisy.

 

[Vixen]

Yup. No posts at all, or any participation in any way, just register and that alone is sufficient for the MA to apply.

Will the mods retro actively moderate? I doubt it but maybe.

In any event, forewarned is forearmed.

I happened upon that on foot of checking if another now banned twonk had regged a sock in an unrelated thread. Since I regularly lurk this thread, I immediately recognised the name.

Could it be some elaborate trap? Sure, I have seen such before. Not often, but it does happen. In fact, on this site, I have seen people register with the sole purpose of suppressing criticism. I could name names, but that would be an infraction since said person/s are still member/s in good standing.

Outbreak of frenzied paranoia, much?

 

[Vixen]

The best way to mask full and open discussion of plagiarism here on ISF is for the plagiarist to register with a forum account!

Great strategic move!

Do you have any evidence of of your reckless claim of plagiarism, apart from the say so of your good friend Karen Pruett, rabid pro-Knox worshipper, with a self-confessed crush on Kurt Knox.

 

[Vixen]

Deleted.

 

[Bill Williams]

Do you have any evidence of of your reckless claim of plagiarism, apart from the say so of your good friend Karen Pruett, rabid pro-Knox worshipper, with a self-confessed crush on Kurt Knox.

Wow. Someone asks for evidence, then goes berserk with wild claims about a "rabid pro-Knox worshipper". That's what I call an objective comment.

Fact: Amazon suspended van der Leek's account until the plagiarism was removed, which he eventually complied with.

Fact: Peter Quennell, no friend to "rabid pro-Knox worshippers" has also accused NvdL so.

However, one can readily understand how this puts you in a tight spot.

 

[Bill Williams]

Why would you feel the need to 'personally attack' a member just on Bill Williams' say so?

You could quote where you think I said that, could you?

Oops, I didn't. My point is that the mod's definition of "personal attack" can be quite - flexible, shall we say.

Talk about a strawman. No one is counselling personal attacks. So vixen, calm down.

Please reread this mini-thread to get a feel for what's being discussed.

Then again, why start now?

 

[Bill Williams]

IMV If you can't say something to someone's face one shouldn't say it at all.

Then why did you say all that bizarre stuff about Karen Pruett?

Consistency is not your strong suit. Double standards are.

 

[Stacyhs]

Do you have any evidence of of your reckless claim of plagiarism, apart from the say so of your good friend Karen Pruett, rabid pro-Knox worshipper, with a self-confessed crush on Kurt Knox.

Wow. Someone asks for evidence, then goes berserk with wild claims about a "rabid pro-Knox worshipper". That's what I call an objective comment.

Fact: Amazon suspended van der Leek's account until the plagiarism was removed, which he eventually complied with.

Fact: Peter Quennell, no friend to "rabid pro-Knox worshippers" has also accused NvdL so.

However, one can readily understand how this puts you in a tight spot.

Vixen, citation for the alleged "crush on Kurt Knox", please. Or is this just another unsupported personal attack along the same lines as Burleigh's parents being "stoned hippies"?


Regarding the plagiarism, TJMK has featured vdL's books and at least one article by him, thus endorsing them. And yet, PQ is not endorsing his latest and says there may be plagiarism involved.

In this article, vdL claims that he elected voluntarily to remove the relevant parts and says "a phone call" and "a lawyer's letter sent to her (Pruett) by overnight courier" resulted in the book being available within a few days. To me, he is implying that he was not forced to remove the relevant parts by Amazon or Pruett. I don't believe it and think this is his spin. He also says that Pruett was "probably paid to research the timeline" which I also don't believe.
http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index...book_phenomenon_pr_reaction_way_too_strident/

 

[NotEvenWrong]

Or for someone to register on the forum with his name. Just saying.

Even if it were to be an existing forum member who decided to spike the guns of this discussion by registering a sock puppet with that name, the chances of being detected are fairly small if the sock never actually posts. As far as I know, it only requires a member with that name to stop all "personal attacks" on that person, the person doesn't need to be an active member or to show that they are actually the person being talked about.

I wonder if anyone by the name of "Amanda Knox" or "Raffaele Sollecito" has an interest in posting on ISF?

 

[Vixen]

Vixen, citation for the alleged "crush on Kurt Knox", please. Or is this just another unsupported personal attack along the same lines as Burleigh's parents being "stoned hippies"?


Regarding the plagiarism, TJMK has featured vdL's books and at least one article by him, thus endorsing them. And yet, PQ is not endorsing his latest and says there may be plagiarism involved.

In this article, vdL claims that he elected voluntarily to remove the relevant parts and says "a phone call" and "a lawyer's letter sent to her (Pruett) by overnight courier" resulted in the book being available within a few days. To me, he is implying that he was not forced to remove the relevant parts by Amazon or Pruett. I don't believe it and think this is his spin. He also says that Pruett was "probably paid to research the timeline" which I also don't believe.
http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index...book_phenomenon_pr_reaction_way_too_strident/

Karen Pruett's own words, about how she was in high school with Curt and she would support him and his family to the death (not because she believes his daughter is innocent, but because she has feelings of loyalty to Curt [does Cassandra know?]).


Nick used a quote of Karen's which he attributed to Karen and linked it to Karen's article on GROUND REPORT web page.

Karen contacted Amazon to say it was plagiarism, but it actually wasn't. Nick simply removed her quote and brought out the book under a new title.

It's still in publication, so no sign of any plagiarism, after all.

 

[Bill Williams]

Vixen, citation for the alleged "crush on Kurt Knox", please. Or is this just another unsupported personal attack along the same lines as Burleigh's parents being "stoned hippies"?

IIRC this stupidity started years ago when haters were commenting on her Ground Report articles.

One article quoted Curt Knox a couple of times, and one hater (instead of dealing with the content) did the hater-tango saying that all the cites were because she'd had a crush on him.

Such was the level of hater "analysis".

And rather than letting it pass, haters started passing this around as factual. Like Vixen just did....

... which should inform everyone about how "objective" Vixen is or the way she assesses facts. Repition becomes a substitute for proof.

 

[Vixen]

IIRC this stupidity started years ago when haters were commenting on her Ground Report articles.

One article quoted Curt Knox a couple of times, and one hater (instead of dealing with the content) did the hater-tango saying that all the cites were because she'd had a crush on him.

Such was the level of hater "analysis".

And rather than letting it pass, haters started passing this around as factual. Like Vixen just did....

... which should inform everyone about how "objective" Vixen is or the way she assesses facts. Repition becomes a substitute for proof.

Why not? Curt seems to be a 'babe magnet', with Cassandra, Edda and who knows who milling around him.

 

[Stacyhs]

Karen Pruett's own words, about how she was in high school with Curt and she would support him and his family to the death (not because she believes his daughter is innocent, but because she has feelings of loyalty to Curt [does Cassandra know?]).


Nick used a quote of Karen's which he attributed to Karen and linked it to Karen's article on GROUND REPORT web page.

Karen contacted Amazon to say it was plagiarism, but it actually wasn't. Nick simply removed her quote and brought out the book under a new title.

It's still in publication, so no sign of any plagiarism, after all.

LOL! What a crock load of...well, you know. And so do we. Bringing in his wife is a new low even for you. Disgusting.

If vdL had used Karen's work correctly and legally, there would have been no reason to remove it. It's still in publication because he removed it. Your spin isn't working.

 

[Bill Williams]

Why not? Curt seems to be a 'babe magnet', with Cassandra, Edda and who knows who milling around him.

Why do you persist in this slimey slander when you'd just posted you don't say things unless u say them to their faces?

 

[Stacyhs]

LOL! What a crock load of...well, you know. And so do we. Bringing in his wife is a new low even for you. Disgusting.

If vdL had used Karen's work correctly and legally, there would have been no reason to remove it. It's still in publication because he removed it. Your spin isn't working.

Why not? Curt seems to be a 'babe magnet', with Cassandra, Edda and who knows who milling around him.

I was wrong that bringing in Cassandra was a new low. This is.
Rather than admit that you have no evidence whatsoever that Pruett has a "crush" on Curt Knox you resort to this behavior. Have you no shame?

 

[Bill Williams]

LOL! What a crock load of...well, you know. And so do we. Bringing in his wife is a new low even for you. Disgusting.

If vdL had used Karen's work correctly and legally, there would have been no reason to remove it. It's still in publication because he removed it. Your spin isn't working.

A guy robbed a bank. When it was pointed out to him that he'd been caught, he tried to give the money back.

He then complained when he was charged with robbery.

 

[Stacyhs]

A guy robbed a bank. When it was pointed out to him that he'd been caught, he tried to give the money back.

He then complained when he was charged with robbery.

Vixen should work as the Press Secretary for Trump. Her spin is as believable as Spicer's or Sarah H-Sanders'.