Split Thread Scorpion's Spiritualism

[jrhowell]

Um, that's mixing divergent and largely incompatible religious narratives.

i agree, but i belelive that the OP has already used bible quotes to show that Jesus was reincarnated on some other planet before the Earth was created.

 

[Thor 2]

Question from Thor 2

"The spirits you talk of. Are they inside our bodies now and only break out when we die, or can they roam about in the astral plain whilst we are still alive and in a trance/sleep? Is this another name for a soul and do we get one when we are born or conceived?"

As far as my understanding goes we are an immortal spirit connected to a physical body by an energy shell called the etheric body. Consciousness is not centered in the brain but it is channeled down though the chakras in the etheric body.
According to the occult we have several bodies and the etheric is just a shell between the astral body and the physical body.
I believe it is possible to leave the body while we are still alive but I have never achieved that. I don't think many people do. I did once think I was standing on my head in bed, but it could well have been a dream.

The spirits say that we are immortal souls that primarily exist on the spiritual planes and we descend into the physical body at conception. Our soul or spirit is connected to the physical body for the purpose of incarnation, to learn by trial and error.

The theory is we have always existed as part of God but we are sent out on a cycle of birth and rebirths as a way of discovering our divinity for ourselves.

This world is just a plane of experience and there are many higher planes we inhabit after death. We go to a plane that is suitable for our current state of spiritual evolution.
In the spirit we are segregated by our spiritual status but the earth plane is a melting pot for the evolved and the unevolved to interact with one another, and it is largely by such interactions that we develop. There is no pressure on us in the spirit planes and we cannot evolve there, neither can we pay karmic debts, so we have to reincarnate many times.

So as you say, (or the spirits say), the soul/spirit descends into the body at the time of conception. The spirit until this time resembled the physical body of the person it previously occupied, (as you said in a previous post), when in his or her prime.

Now as you no doubt know, pregnancy terminations occur at a very high rate in the very early stages of pregnancy. The spirit may therefore be back in the spirit plane almost immediately. If viewed by one gifted with the ability to view spirits does the spirit then resemble a zygote?

 

[Scorpion]

So as you say, (or the spirits say), the soul/spirit descends into the body at the time of conception. The spirit until this time resembled the physical body of the person it previously occupied, (as you said in a previous post), when in his or her prime.

Now as you no doubt know, pregnancy terminations occur at a very high rate in the very early stages of pregnancy. The spirit may therefore be back in the spirit plane almost immediately. If viewed by one gifted with the ability to view spirits does the spirit then resemble a zygote?

I have no idea, I never got to ask any spirit guide that kind of question.
But I do seem to remember them saying an aborted foetus grows up in the spirit world. They do not remember their past life at that time.

 

[Scorpion]

If I'm reading this correctly, then abortion is a good thing for everybody involved, including the unborn foetus. Is that your position?

Given that everything that happens to everybody, including doing "evil things", is ultimately of benefit to everybody can you think of a single action anybody could perform which can be considered wrong in the grand scheme of things?

No ! abortion interrupts the souls intended life experience and sends them back to the spirit world where it may take a long time for them to grow up in the spirit world and seek another incarnation.

Evil acts have consequences that can echo on over many lives, so they are hardly the right thing to do.. Everything we do has to be accounted for.

 

[Scorpion]

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. I meant actual physical damage to an area of the body associated with a particular chakra. Does this change your consciousness, and is this a measurable effect? Is it something that trauma units in hospitals, for example, have noticed?

Not being a doctor I have no experience other than my own to go by.
I am clear that the chakras being miss aligned seriously affected my mind.
I had absolutely no powers of concentration, and I felt as if I could not get a grip of my thoughts. My mind was racing out of control.
These could be considered psychiatric symptoms, but added to that I felt like fire was flowing through my chakras.
I told my beliefs to a psychiatrist and he asked what first made me interested in the chakras. I said I could feel them whizzing in and out of my head, and he laughed.

 

[Donn]

No ! abortion interrupts the souls [blathersnip].. Evil acts have consequences

Labelling abortion as evil is the true act of evil.

Your kind orgasms at the erasure of individuals. Your special feelings are paramount. You masticate all difference before you into a cud of spiritual puke. There is no difference, under the dirty covers, between your hippy faith and any other dominion.

I know you boldly have my name on your little list of noise. Prey on.

 

[Scorpion]

Labelling abortion as evil is the true act of evil.

Your kind orgasms at the erasure of individuals. Your special feelings are paramount. You masticate all difference before you into a cud of spiritual puke. There is no difference, under the dirty covers, between your hippy faith and any other dominion.

I know you boldly have my name on your little list of noise. Prey on.

I did not say abortion was evil, I was answering two separate questions.

 

[Myriad]

This is a contradiction. Memory is information, which is form persisting over time. What form do our stored soul-body memories take

The reason I ask about, and focus on, that mysterious store of locked-up memories is that they're the only thing, absolutely the only single thing, that if they existed, would make the slightest practical difference between me dying and being reincarnated as someone else, and me dying and someone else being born.

Any reincarnated successor "self" of mine, after all, doesn't have my current memories of my current life. Doesn't have my learned knowledge or beliefs (those being types of memories). Doesn't have my specific genetic physical characteristics. Doesn't have my life history of interactions with the world. Doesn't share the follow-ons of that history (such as, people who know me, things I've written, property I used to own... all of which, if I had merely lost all my memories but were still living, would still be associated with me even if I didn't remember them myself).

So, in what way is that successor myself? The only thing we share is eventual future access to that locked-away memory store.

Aside from that, the reincarnation narrative tells me that I have far more in common with you than with any of my predecessor or reincarnated successor "selves." You and I share large amounts of culture, similar environments we've lived in and experiences we've lived through, and a common language in which we can actually converse. That's not true of my reincarnated selves. I can't talk to them, they can't talk to me; they live in my past and future, and most likely in far-away places with different ways of life. They're complete strangers.

Why would I be tempted to single out a few specific past and future lives, rather than the people I know around me today (or, perhaps, every conscious being), as additional "selves" of mine? One reason: an ego that wants to see itself as an eternal individual. It's not enough for that ego to be practically eternal, by recurring indefinitely in different forms and instances along the stream of life; no, that "individual" part is very important to it. Very selfish, the ego is, insisting "it's MY spirit, nobody else can share it unless they're ALSO ME." If that claim doesn't hold together without conjuring up a second spirit-brain, redundant and useless during life but having super memory powers in the spirit world, to preserve the ego's desired permanent individuality contrary to all other evidence, then that's the story the ego will tell.

I don't trust it. I have a more rational narrative in mind, that's consistent with the findings of neuroscience on how the brain and memory actually work, and of evolutionary theory on how they came to exist.

 

[Donn]

Any reincarnated successor "self" of mine, after all, doesn't have my current memories of my current life.

Fantastic series of questions. Probing; sharp.

It's amazing that the baby's babble of pablum that Scorpion swaddles is adequate to mollify a mollusk.

I know he's serious; that he believes every last word; that he sees ectoplasm where I see cheesecloth cringe. It stuns me to the core. I should know better. The world is crushed beneath the weight of such fantasists.

Bah. I'm blue.

 

[Scorpion]

Yes it's a different part of ourselves that reincarnates. It does not remember past incarnations, but it carries with it the collective spiritual evolutionary status of past lives. We are more than we were before, and we are likely to manifest character that is the sum of our past lives.

We may have qualities like being stronger, wiser, more compassionate beings because of previous lives.
A spirit guide speaking through a trance medium in a lecture I attended said that Mozart had been a musician in nine previous lives before he was born Mozart the prodigy.
So we carry over what we have learned in past lives as latent characteristics of the new life.

I remember hearing that the soul retains perfect memories of all events of past lives, and if there were any doubt about a memory everything that ever happened leaves an energy trace that can be accessed in the higher realms of the spirit world. So we could review everything we have done and see it again.
I do not know how memory is stored in the soul. It is not a question I ever though of asking a spirit guide when I used to attend lectures. What I learned comes from the
1970's and I have not been in contact with any church for twenty years. So I can't learn anything new.

 

[Pixel42]

There are many ways in which you could learn something new, Scorpion. You just refuse to avail yourself of them.

 

[Donn]

There are many ways in which you could learn something new, Scorpion. You just refuse to avail yourself of them.

He feels certain of this utterly mind boggling paradigm; speaking boastingly of fact and what has been said; and yet cares not to invest any further effort in the pursuit.

Afterlife couch potato. I guess there's always another cycle to get it right. Coast now and ghost later.

 

[Thor 2]

I have no idea, I never got to ask any spirit guide that kind of question.
But I do seem to remember them saying an aborted foetus grows up in the spirit world. They do not remember their past life at that time.

This is an example illustrating the devil in the detail.

My question illustrated the absurdity of the idea of a spirit resembling the physical body of the deceased - in their prime. You come back with the response that you don't know and you haven't asked a spirit guide that question. On the other hand you claim detailed knowledge about aborted spirits growing up in the spirit world in your response to Squeegee Beckenheim:

No ! abortion interrupts the souls intended life experience and sends them back to the spirit world where it may take a long time for them to grow up in the spirit world and seek another incarnation.

Evil acts have consequences that can echo on over many lives, so they are hardly the right thing to do.. Everything we do has to be accounted for.

I seem to recall in previous posts you claiming that spirits only develop in the physical world. You can't have it both ways.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

He feels certain of this utterly mind boggling paradigm; speaking boastingly of fact and what has been said; and yet cares not to invest any further effort in the pursuit.

Afterlife couch potato. I guess there's always another cycle to get it right. Coast now and ghost later.

One can get the smug feeling of being an expert without the hard work of learning real information or the inconvenience of being contradicted so long as one makes up their own imaginary BS to pontificate on.

 

[Scorpion]

I seem to recall in previous posts you claiming that spirits only develop in the physical world. You can't have it both ways.

Yes, the spirit can only evolve and settle karma in the physical world. Because there is no pressure in the spirit. You go to a plane of existence that suits your stage of spiritual evolution, and everyone there is at the same level. So there is no conflict like on earth. Spirits are segregated, unlike the earth where souls at all different levels of development are thrown together.

 

[Scorpion]

so long as one makes up their own imaginary BS to pontificate on.

Most of what I say is what I have heard mediums in trance say in lectures at the spiritualist association in London.

 

[Thor 2]

Yes, the spirit can only evolve and settle karma in the physical world. Because there is no pressure in the spirit. You go to a plane of existence that suits your stage of spiritual evolution, and everyone there is at the same level. So there is no conflict like on earth. Spirits are segregated, unlike the earth where souls at all different levels of development are thrown together.

But you said ^:

But I do seem to remember them saying an aborted foetus grows up in the spirit world. They do not remember their past life at that time.

We are talking about zygotes here. Growing up in the spirit world but being segregated into lots that have the same degree of spiritual evolution?

You speak with such authority about these matters but when challenged with a question that shows some thought absurd ...... you haven't asked some spirit authority about it?

 

[Squeegee Beckenheim]

No ! abortion interrupts the souls intended life experience and sends them back to the spirit world where it may take a long time for them to grow up in the spirit world and seek another incarnation.

Then things can happen which are not to God's plan? And on what information are you basing what any particular soul's "intended life experience" is/was?

Evil acts have consequences that can echo on over many lives, so they are hardly the right thing to do.. Everything we do has to be accounted for.

How can we learn not to commit evil acts if we cannot commit evil acts? Isn't the purpose of our time on Earth for us to learn things like that?

 

[Scorpion]

Then things can happen which are not to God's plan? And on what information are you basing what any particular soul's "intended life experience" is/was?

I do not think the divine plan concerns itself with small details, it is about the general evolution of mankind, and according to the spirit world that plan is proceeding to its ultimate conclusion. Which will be that all the souls of the family of mankind will ultimately reach enlightenment.

How can we learn not to commit evil acts if we cannot commit evil acts? Isn't the purpose of our time on Earth for us to learn things like that?

Evil acts can simply be seen as mistakes born of ignorance. The unevolved can be very cruel. Even children can be cruel. But personal experience of hurtful things, teaches us to be more merciful. This may carry on over many incarnations, as according to the spirit world every action has a reaction, and every action and its reaction must be accounted for. That being the case someone like Hitler is a soul to be pitied. He has much suffering ahead of him over unknown numbers of incarnations.

 

[Scorpion]

We are talking about zygotes here. Growing up in the spirit world but being segregated into lots that have the same degree of spiritual evolution?

You speak with such authority about these matters but when challenged with a question that shows some thought absurd ...... you haven't asked some spirit authority about it?

I do not know what happens to zygotes that die. I have never asked that question of a spirit guide so how can I know. I assume the spirit body of a baby is fully developed even though the physical body is still unformed. But I don't know.