Merged Obama birth certificate CT / SSN CT / Birther discussion Part II

[Bubba]

Do you remember Bubba saying he wanted Obama to undergo a DNA test to prove he was American? That made me chuckle.

Originally Posted by Bubba View Post
This may come as a surprise.....I think it is actually productive to see a member willing to post such childish nonsense.

Why?

Dont you think it is useful to know who writes such childish nonsense, for future reference? I think it is useful to know. specially where it is false. That reveals a character willfully indulging dishonestly in abusive slander.

 

[Bubba]

Bubba, here is exactly why I discounted the "born in Kenya" story the first time I heard it. And nothing ever since has been able to convince me otherwise.

Tell me, honestly. Does it even make sense to you, that Obama's mom would fly to Kenya from Hawaii to have a baby, and then fly back?

Sounds silly, put that way. "Fly there to give birth, then fly back". Did someone say she did that? Or did you choose the most unlikely sounding version you could come up with? Kinda like a strawman.

Her father was there. As a missionary, we are told. Wayne Madsen, former naval intell, (outright pathological liar and kook, of course) has pages of data and pics supporting his belief that Obama's granpa was an (cia) agent of some kind. Hence the pic of gramps at Hickam Air Force Base, Honolulu, welcoming young men from africa, including Obama, Sr. Of course this could be innocent, missionary granpa grooming students into Univ of Hawaii. Or not, if grooming future leaders into U H as a cia agent might do, at an AF base rather than a public airport (pic below at link).

Missionary is good cover for a spy guy. Madsen in a video said he asked people in kenya that knew missionary granpa Dunham. He said they said granpa was cold like a fish. Missionaries usually are not cold like fish.

Madsen said Obama's mom was cia too. Like father, like daughter. It can run in families. Says she was not just studying in Sukarnos' Indonesia, when cia op phoenix was overthrowing legally elected 3rd world govts. Hippie student mom could have been taking extra notes after class.

Generally, Obama's mom's and grandparents' travels and pursuits plausibly fit profiles typical of possible undercover govt operatives. That could explain the placing of the 1962 birth notice in the Honolulu newspaper.

Madsen's site now has a paywall, so cannot link. However it seems most or all Madsen's stuff on Obama family with pics is pasted at (horrors) infowars, below. Madsen is supposedly former naval intelligence. He writes like he was an insider. I saw Madsen's videos and read all I could of it at his site. There was a lot. So many details he had. I thought it all sounded plausible. Could be fiction, or not.

Some is here:

https://www.infowars.com/bombshell-barack-obama-conclusively-outed-as-cia-creation/


Madsen isnt a commonly heard name.....On the TV show Hawaii Five-O back then, a guy named Madsen got decapitated in the opening scene. (no first name was given). Back then the show had some pro govt/homeland security/military themes, and support from them. Anyway, some writer could have put Madsen decapitated in there for a nudge and a wink. Wayne Madsen says he gets his share of death threats.

related

How we destroyed Sukarno

www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/how-we-destroyed-sukarno-1188448.html

.
ETA
Your question led me to assume you had not seen Wayne Madsen's stuff

 

[Mojo]

Dont you think it is useful to know who writes such childish nonsense, for future reference? I think it is useful to know. specially where it is false. That reveals a character willfully indulging dishonestly in abusive slander.

And that's why you do it?

It seems a bit of a waste of time to post on a forum purely in order to demonstrate that your posts aren't worth reading.

 

[Hans]

Sounds silly,

Bubba take a minute while you are flying around and think a bit, then answer the following.

Who and for what possible reason would anyone (in any sort of 'secret organization' with some sort of future agenda), fake the birth of child to a US citizen?

What exactly would the long term plan have been? I would point out that old Obama (whom I might note I never voted for) has been president twice and now retired. What exactly did he do that required faking his birth place so many decades ago?

If you were going to groom a 'Manchurian' candidate why not make it a tad easier and use one of hundreds of thousands born in the US that year? Is there some super secret reason that you need - in that time period - someone who would - in that cultural context - be unable/highly unlikely to become president?

So what was this clever plans objective again?

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Why not require every job applicant to satisfy the requirement with a standard proof ie birth certificate and or whatever else does the trick.

Why not also apply it to the vice president candidates?

Dont you think it is useful to know who writes such childish nonsense, for future reference? I think it is useful to know. specially where it is false. That reveals a character willfully indulging dishonestly in abusive slander.

Interesting. I distinctly remember you saying that candidates should be DNA tested. Now, going back over the thread, that post has disappeared.
My hunch is that you edited the post above, to remove the embarrasing slip.

Alternatively, I have made a mistake, in which caseIi apologise.

In either case, your wilful misrepresentation of my character is entirely uncalled-for, false, and offensive.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Interesting. I distinctly remember you saying that candidates should be DNA tested. Now, going back over the thread, that post has disappeared.
My hunch is that you edited the post above, to remove the embarrasing slip.

Alternatively, I have made a mistake, in which caseIi apologise.

In either case, your wilful misrepresentation of my character is entirely uncalled-for, false, and offensive.

After some more digging, I have discovered that both my initial assumptions were wrong.
Bubba did not edit the reference out of his post- apologies for that.
However, Bubba, before you get too carried away with triumph, I have also discovered that I was not misremembering.
You did indeed call for candidates to be DNA tested. That particular post was moved to AAH, and can be found here:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=11521157#post11521157

CY

Did I ever get back to you about acceptable means of candidates birth certification?
If not, I'd say the usual ie BC etc.

Maybe one day later DNA test too.

I will accept nothing less than your unreserved apology for your slander of my character and motives.

ETA: Mods, I'm not sure about the "legality" of quoting from AAH. However, I see nothing objectionable in the quote, and I think in the circumstances, I should be allowed to clear my name.

 

[Mojo]

Anyway, Bubba, can you answer these questions, please?

Two questions for you, Bubba:

1. When did they release the birth certificate?
2. When did you post this?

Please answer both.

 

[halleyscomet]

Sounds silly, put that way. "Fly there to give birth, then fly back". Did someone say she did that? Or did you choose the most unlikely sounding version you could come up with? Kinda like a strawman.

It’s not a straw man at all. It’s exactly what the conspiracy theory required from the beginning. The rest of your post is pointless window dressing around the fact that the basic timing of Obama having a Kenyan birth was stupid. Not, implausible, but demonstrably stupid. You’re making excuses for believing something really, really dumb.

In the beginning Birthers fell into three camps.

1. Racists looking for a proxy way to attack Obama’s race.

2. Gullible people who don’t think things through before deciding to believe in them.

3. Cynical manipulators looking to exploit groups #1 and #2.

Today, group #2 is largely gone, with the exception of a handful of REALLY stupid people.

The fact you’re still linking to Infowars as if it were a source of fact and not fiction prompts me to ask if you swallowed the #PizzaGate BS as well.

 

[LSSBB]

It’s not a straw man at all. It’s exactly what the conspiracy theory required from the beginning. The rest of your post is pointless window dressing around the fact that the basic timing of Obama having a Kenyan birth was stupid. Not, implausible, but demonstrably stupid. You’re making excuses for believing something really, really dumb.

Exactly.

 

[Bubba]

[/url]

I will accept nothing less than your unreserved apology for your slander of my character and motives.

Hhmm...



Um, no.

This is like a grand poobah of your trademark pattern of "misunderstanding" misrepresenting/spinning/twisting my words. (just last week included). In your lie, the motive is clear:

Bubba saying he wanted Obama to undergo a DNA test to prove he was American? That made me chuckle.

Potentially problematic health disorders could be revealed by DNA testing. Part of medical vetting, which I've advocated for years. People should know much much more about candidates.


My DNA remark was about vetting future candidates, plural.

Did I ever get back to you about acceptable means of candidates birth certification?
If not, I'd say the usual ie BC etc.

Maybe one day later DNA test too.

I called for future candidates to be DNA tested, maybe.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
Do you remember Bubba saying he wanted Obama to undergo a DNA test to prove he was American? That made me chuckle.

I will accept nothing less than your unreserved apology for your slander of my character and motives.

Please try cleaning up your act.

 

[Bubba]

Bubba take a minute while you are flying around and think a bit, then answer the following.

Who and for what possible reason would anyone (in any sort of 'secret organization' with some sort of future agenda), fake the birth of child to a US citizen?

What exactly would the long term plan have been? I would point out that old Obama (whom I might note I never voted for) has been president twice and now retired. What exactly did he do that required faking his birth place so many decades ago?

If you were going to groom a 'Manchurian' candidate why not make it a tad easier and use one of hundreds of thousands born in the US that year? Is there some super secret reason that you need - in that time period - someone who would - in that cultural context - be unable/highly unlikely to become president?

So what was this clever plans objective again?

Maybe its simple.

That is, if you are referring to the hypothetical case, a cia family as Wayne Madsen makes the argument.

Suppose you, or your daughter, or both are on the job in a 3rd world country. She gets pregnant. Your grandchild will be born there. Or, apply a dash of your tradecraft, and poof...your grandchild is born in America without anyone having to interrupt the people's work for freedom and justice for all. For all its advantages. No grand plan needed. Just to be born American with minimal paperwork, and minimal paper trail, being an agency family and all.

Sounds fairly routine, per the genre. Would you be surprised to see it in a novel? Would you be surprised if it were a true story in some agency family (not obama) ? Would you be surprised if it were true in any family with sufficient foresight, means, and cunning? What would you choose, were it you? Just a theory.

 

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Yak View Post
I will accept nothing less than your unreserved apology for your slander of my character and motives.

Do you remember Bubba saying he wanted Obama to undergo a DNA test to prove he was American? That made me chuckle.

What was that motive, pray tell?

 

[Bubba]

My hunch is that you edited the post above, to remove the embarrasing slip.

I see. You deem it an embarrassing slip, still you post this nonsense:

Do you remember Bubba saying he wanted Obama to undergo a DNA test to prove he was American? That made me chuckle.

I think I understand your motive.

 

[halleyscomet]

What was that motive, pray tell?

I think your current motive is try and find an excuse for believing something so demonstrably stupid.

Face it. A bunch of racists and canny politicians played you like a fiddle. They got you to believe something stupid by distracting you with tall tales about CIA operatives and classic conspiracy theory fodder. Instead of taking your lumps you’re trying to make excuses. I get it. I really do. I was raised as a conservative Creationist. I used to believe the age of the Earth could be calculated from the genealogies in the Old Testament. A LOT of the people on this forum have similar backstories. They believed something stupid.

Now the question for you is this. Will you continue to wallow in the past, trying to make excuses for past humiliation, or will you move forward, learn from your past mistakes and become a wiser person going forward?

So far you’ve been wallowing. That’s not how you grow as a human being.

 

[Bubba]

I think your current motive is try and find an excuse for believing something so demonstrably stupid.

Face it. A bunch of racists and canny politicians played you like a fiddle. They got you to believe something stupid by distracting you with tall tales about CIA operatives and classic conspiracy theory fodder. Instead of taking your lumps you’re trying to make excuses. I get it. I really do. I was raised as a conservative Creationist. I used to believe the age of the Earth could be calculated from the genealogies in the Old Testament. A LOT of the people on this forum have similar backstories. They believed something stupid.

Now the question for you is this. Will you continue to wallow in the past, trying to make excuses for past humiliation, or will you move forward, learn from your past mistakes and become a wiser person going forward?

So far you’ve been wallowing. That’s not how you grow as a human being.

Congrats on escaping that mind control system.


Please explain how you determined: "demonstrably stupid...tall tales about CIA operatives" (re obama family).

It would be good to know there was one less leader/case like that.

 

[Mojo]

Bubba, when you wrote, "then they released the birth certificates and that was that", what did you mean by it?

 

[Elagabalus]

Congrats on escaping that mind control system.


Please explain how you determined: "demonstrably stupid...tall tales about CIA operatives" (re obama family).

It would be good to know there was one less leader/case like that.

Well? Were they CIA operatives? Why would they need to concoct a story like that when Barry's mom never left Hawaii during the time in question.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Dunham

 

[Hans]

Maybe its simple.

That is, if you are referring to the hypothetical case, a cia family as Wayne Madsen makes the argument.

Suppose you, or your daughter, or both are on the job in a 3rd world country. She gets pregnant. Your grandchild will be born there. Or, apply a dash of your tradecraft, and poof...your grandchild is born in America without anyone having to interrupt the people's work for freedom and justice for all. For all its advantages. No grand plan needed. Just to be born American with minimal paperwork, and minimal paper trail, being an agency family and all.

Sounds fairly routine, per the genre. Would you be surprised to see it in a novel? Would you be surprised if it were a true story in some agency family (not obama) ? Would you be surprised if it were true in any family with sufficient foresight, means, and cunning? What would you choose, were it you? Just a theory.

Yes it would be over kill for no particular reason. Why would they be concerned that the child was born in America? His mother was American so no matter where he was born he could be an American. The only point about being born IN America is that some consider that a requirement to become president.

How many CIA agents were socialist, communists & left leaning?

 

[Bubba]

Well? Were they CIA operatives? Why would they need to concoct a story like that when Barry's mom never left Hawaii during the time in question.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Dunham

There it is. Close the hood. Dang, I shoulda checked wikipedia !

 

[Hans]

There it is. Close the hood. Dang, I shoulda checked wikipedia !

One uses Wiki as a start because sometimes - as in this case - it has a good selection of detailed professional sources - I mean why don't you look at sources critically THEN hand wave them away?