Michael Shermer vs. "alternative history" Hancock and Crandall

King of the Americas said:
You are forgetting the ruins...every trace EXCEPT THEM were vanished.
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Except you said earlier:
King of the Americas said:
Had you watched the video, you'd have seen the evidence of a massive debris wall snapping off mastodon femurs.
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So, if there is evidence of a "massive debris wall" that can show us snapped off mastodon femurs, then why is it not showing us actual bits of the civilisation in question other than these buildings?

Or are the other buildings, roads etc somehow more fragile than a mastodon leg? Or more prone to some sort of sorting?

King of the Americas said:
Under water, perhaps? That tends to happen with flooding.
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Considering we have ruins, we would expect the other stuff to be located near them. That's how pretty much all other sites work.
 
Tolls said:
Except you said earlier:


So, if there is evidence of a "massive debris wall" that can show us snapped off mastodon femurs, then why is it not showing us actual bits of the civilisation in question other than these buildings?

Or are the other buildings, roads etc somehow more fragile than a mastodon leg? Or more prone to some sort of sorting?



Considering we have ruins, we would expect the other stuff to be located near them. That's how pretty much all other sites work.
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You've conflated two unrelated issues.
 
Tolls said:
And?
You've just proved our point.
Look at that image and tell me there aren't any artifacts in that lot.

You walk around there and you'll find tons of stuff.

And that's a tsunami.
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Now imagine what would be left if the water had been 100ft deep over the site...
 
steenkh said:
I see foundations and other evidence that there was something there. Are you sure this picture supports your position?

By the way, wouldn't a huge civilization-erasing flood not have tumbled the GT ruins?
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We don't know what caused the GT site to be emptied. We only know that those following, covered it up, and preserved it, as they found it.
 
No one doubts that the ruins exist.
They doubt your un evidenced assertions.
 
King of the Americas said:
That they were created by a vanished people/civilization with unknown means, around 12,500 years ago?
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That's not true. The imagery and artwork found at Gobekli Tepe is found at other stone age archaeological sites in the same area. It's like other abandoned Mesopotamian sites, the people developed other later locations like Karahan Tepe.
 

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Matthew Ellard said:
That's not true. The imagery and artwork found at Gobekli Tepe is found at other stone age archaeological sites in the same area. It's like other abandoned Mesopotamian sites, the people developed other later locations like Karahan Tepe.
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So, are you supposing that these other sites are similar or even the same as GT?

What did these ruins date to?
 
Matthew Ellard said:
That's not true. The imagery and artwork found at Gobekli Tepe is found at other stone age archaeological sites in the same area. It's like other abandoned Mesopotamian sites, the people developed other later locations like Karahan Tepe.
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King of the Americas said:
So, are you supposing that these other sites are similar or even the same as GT? What did these ruins date to?
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I am not supposing. I am informing you that the same imagery and motifs appear at Karahan Tepe, which is dated at 8500BCE indicating the people at Gobekli Tepe were still around and not wiped out in some magical flood around 12,000 BCE.

Your "lost agricultural civilisation" claim is thus debunked twice. Firstly by grain DNA evidence and secondly that the population was still there.
 
Matthew Ellard said:
I am not supposing. I am informing you that the same imagery and motifs appear at Karahan Tepe, which is dated at 8500BCE indicating the people at Gobekli Tepe were still around and not wiped out in some magical flood around 12,000 BCE.

Your "lost agricultural civilisation" claim is thus debunked twice. Firstly by grain DNA evidence and secondly that the population was still there.
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You're conflating and pettifogging.

Atlantis was destroyed by a global flood, about 12,500 years ago. The flood was released with this scablands event.

GT dates TO this time period, and the site required a MASSIVE labor force as well as agriculture.

AFTER this period...humanity took a nose-dive, and stopped building 'as intricate' temples and monuments. There WERE still monument builders, but the designs had lost much in craftsmanship, until they stopped altogether.

We know humanity had advanced agriculture and massive settlements/cities, because GT was perfectly preserved by those who followed thereafter.
 
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