Why Hitler Declared War On The United States

Craig B said:
That is so true, and even so predictably obvious, that one is baffled to understand why Hitler declared war on the USA.
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Not really. Once Hitler got into Japan's knickers. He had to chose. And to Hitler he was constrained to do so, and to Hitler, this was an enemy thousands of miles away who could do nothing, he thought.
 
abaddon said:
Not really. Once Hitler got into Japan's knickers. He had to chose. And to Hitler he was constrained to do so, and to Hitler, this was an enemy thousands of miles away who could do nothing, he thought.
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But he was already concerned about the US engaging in protecting British convoys, so he knew they were capable of sending ships across the ocean. He knew that the USA possessed grain and oil, commodities which they would now supply to their new allies, the UK and the USSR. He might have been mistaken enough to despise the military prowess of the US, but he must surely have known of its potential as a supplier of raw materials and agricultural products.

He couldn't effectively inhibit UK Atlantic shipping. Now he had in addition the US merchant navy to contend with, whatever he may have thought about the quality of the military forces protecting it.
 
Craig B said:
But he was already concerned about the US engaging in protecting British convoys, so he knew they were capable of sending ships across the ocean. He knew that the USA possessed grain and oil, commodities which they would now supply to their new allies, the UK and the USSR. He might have been mistaken enough to despise the military prowess of the US, but he must surely have known of its potential as a supplier of raw materials and agricultural products.

He couldn't effectively inhibit UK Atlantic shipping. Now he had in addition the US merchant navy to contend with, whatever he may have thought about the quality of the military forces protecting it.
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Not defending it in any way. To me it was a "What were you thinking?" moment, let alone any morality.
 
Craig B said:
But he was already concerned about the US engaging in protecting British convoys, so he knew they were capable of sending ships across the ocean. He knew that the USA possessed grain and oil, commodities which they would now supply to their new allies, the UK and the USSR. He might have been mistaken enough to despise the military prowess of the US, but he must surely have known of its potential as a supplier of raw materials and agricultural products.

He couldn't effectively inhibit UK Atlantic shipping. Now he had in addition the US merchant navy to contend with, whatever he may have thought about the quality of the military forces protecting it.
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American materiel flowing to the UK, the US providing convoy protection and all the other measures directed at Germany convinced Hitler, probably correctly, that war with the US was coming regardless. The hope was that Japanese successes combined with unleashing the U-Boats against unprotected shipping in US waters might at the very least cut the flow of supplies to Britain for long enough to make them come to terms. He failed to foresee that despite Pearl Harbour the USA would go with the 'Germany First' strategy, or that the US would close down the 'happy time' for the U-Boats so quickly. Declaring war on the USA was a gamble, but it wasn't actually crazy given the situation Germany was in by December 1941.
 
Craig B said:
But he was already concerned about the US engaging in protecting British convoys, so he knew they were capable of sending ships across the ocean. He knew that the USA possessed grain and oil, commodities which they would now supply to their new allies, the UK and the USSR. He might have been mistaken enough to despise the military prowess of the US, but he must surely have known of its potential as a supplier of raw materials and agricultural products.

He couldn't effectively inhibit UK Atlantic shipping. Now he had in addition the US merchant navy to contend with, whatever he may have thought about the quality of the military forces protecting it.
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Between Lend-Lease and the totally one-sided neutrality patrols, Germany was effectively at war with the USA already, I think. But they couldn't just overtly attack US assets. Declaring war made that ok.
 
There was an item on a TV documentary in which it said that the Americans had been depth charging German submarines before there was any declaration of war, and that was the reason why Hitler declared war on America. I don't know the full facts about that but it sounds plausible to me.
 
Henri McPhee said:
There was an item on a TV documentary in which it said that the Americans had been depth charging German submarines before there was any declaration of war, and that was the reason why Hitler declared war on America. I don't know the full facts about that but it sounds plausible to me.
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As usual, that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. There was a general escalation of incidents during the Battle of the Atlantic, starting with the USS Niblack dropping depth charges to drive off a German submarine taking up an attacking position in April 1941, then the attack by a submarine on USS Greer in September, the torpedo hit on USS Kearny and the sinking of the Reuben James in October. It seems unlikely that Germany declared war on the USA in retaliation for an attack 8 months before Pearl Harbor that didn't even cause any casualties, and nor does it seem that Germany had any kind of moral high ground after killing 11 men on the Kearny and 100 on the Reuben James. The timing of the declaration alone, though, makes it rather obvious that Pearl Harbor was the proximate cause.

Dave
 
There was an item on a TV documentary yesterday called The Price of Empire which said Hitler declared war on America because he hoped Japan would go to war with Russia because of it. It said Japan refused to do this because of some kind of 1941 non-aggression pact with Russia which Japan did not break. I don't know much about that matter. It also said Hitler thought America only had about 100000 troops at the time. That was a miscalculation by Hitler, as was proved later on.
 
Japan did attack Russia but got kicked around and had more sense than to press it.
 
Henri McPhee said:
There was an item on a TV documentary yesterday called The Price of Empire which said Hitler declared war on America because he hoped Japan would go to war with Russia because of it. It said Japan refused to do this because of some kind of 1941 non-aggression pact with Russia which Japan did not break. I don't know much about that matter. It also said Hitler thought America only had about 100000 troops at the time. That was a miscalculation by Hitler, as was proved later on.
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That was foolish. The Japanese had a choice whether to go to war with the USSR or with the Western powers, and chose the latter. As soon as Soviet intelligence heard of Japanese intentions against the US, Stalin realised his truce with Japan was holding, and he moved troops West to defend Moscow, probably thereby winning the war in the long run.

One must assume that the Japanese were motivated by the more alluring character of the prizes to be conquered in the British, French and Dutch Empires, compared to Siberia. Also the Soviets had administered a sharp defeat to the Japanese in Mongolia in September 1939, and thereafter the Japanese treated the USSR with great wariness and respect.
 
Darat said:
Hitler did not want war with anyone!

If only all those people in his rightful lands had upsticks and removed themselves so good Germanic folk could return there wouldn't have been any wars. Damn those millions of people and those countries that just wouldn't do what he wanted. Every one of the dead in world war II can be laid at their feet, it's blood on their hands.

Also known as the "look what you made me do" theory of history.
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The Swift Theory?
 
Craig B said:
That was foolish. The Japanese had a choice whether to go to war with the USSR or with the Western powers, and chose the latter. As soon as Soviet intelligence heard of Japanese intentions against the US, Stalin realised his truce with Japan was holding, and he moved troops West to defend Moscow, probably thereby winning the war in the long run.

One must assume that the Japanese were motivated by the more alluring character of the prizes to be conquered in the British, French and Dutch Empires, compared to Siberia. Also the Soviets had administered a sharp defeat to the Japanese in Mongolia in September 1939, and thereafter the Japanese treated the USSR with great wariness and respect.
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To be fair Khalkhin Gol was virtually unkown until the fall of the Soviet Union as the secretive nature of the USSR and the tendency of Japan to bury their failures led to almost no-one knowning about this battle. Ths included Hitler, who probably thought that Japan would be lusting for more bits of the former Russian Empire like they got in 1905.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
Japan did attack Russia but got kicked around and had more sense than to press it.
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Also the Japanese were desperate for oil and as far I know Siberia didn't have any at that date. There was however lots of oil in Dutch territory.
 
kookbreaker said:
To be fair Khalkhin Gol was virtually unkown until the fall of the Soviet Union as the secretive nature of the USSR and the tendency of Japan to bury their failures led to almost no-one knowning about this battle. Ths included Hitler, who probably thought that Japan would be lusting for more bits of the former Russian Empire like they got in 1905.
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An example of that secretiveness is that the Red Army used an early model of the T34 tank against the Japanese.

The Japanese never mentioned their experience of this formidable weapon to the Germans, to whom it came as a complete (and expensive) surprise in 1941.
 
Craig B said:
An example of that secretiveness is that the Red Army used an early model of the T34 tank against the Japanese.

The Japanese never mentioned their experience of this formidable weapon to the Germans, to whom it came as a complete (and expensive) surprise in 1941.
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The Japanese probably couldn't really tell much difference between an early T-34 and a BT-7 given that both tanks would crush pretty much anything the IJA had.
 
Craig B said:
An example of that secretiveness is that the Red Army used an early model of the T34 tank against the Japanese.
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News to me; I always thought the up-armouring and up-gunning of the A-20 to produce the A-32, which was effectively the prototype of the T-34, was decided on as a result of the experience gained at Khalkhin Gol. The T-34 was partly based on the BT types used in 1939, but it was a vastly more effective and capable tank.

Dave
 
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