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Trump and NFL boycott

As MSNBC pundit Karine Jean-Pierre reminds us right now, shouldn't Pence have walked out on Trump when he disrespected POWs and Gold Star families?

MSNBC is also going with the $200K cost not the $90K cost and showed that Pence went from Las Vegas to Indianapolis for his 10 minute stunt then back to LA instead of going from Las Vegas to LA.
 
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Oystein said:
the expectation that private citizens doing private business or even leisure play along with that carnivall
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That isn't my understanding. This thing with the NFL has nothing to do with adherence to the protocol. People are not offended because it violates US code. That is like saying people are offended by illegal immigration simply because it is lawbreaking.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
The question is, though, would many of these offended people be offended if someone hadn't suggested they should be?
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My nephew didn't decide to "take a break" from watching NFL games until Trump made it an issue.

Worm said:
Not quite.

Military personnel salute. Everyone else places their hand over their heart.
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The guy in uniform with Pence wasn't saluting, either.

So Pence walks out on a game that ordinary fans paid good money to get into. He does this because players on the other side protested. He knew they were going to protest. I'm not sure this stunt won't backfire.

Also the fact that Manning's number was to be retired at halftime - that seems disrespectful to Manning, and to the ordinary fans who only get to watch live NFL games every once in a while and who don't get a free jet ride there.

This bothers me more than Trump's original remarks.
 
Minoosh said:
So am I supposed to salute that thing, or put my hand over my heart?

Essentially, an American flag jock strap.
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A much more graphic disrespect of the flag than kneelers ever considered. No one who claims to respect the flag (and we can argue over whether one ought, but that's another issue) should support this display.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
johnny karate said:
Not to mention that claiming what Trump did was merely a "criticism of the NFL" is wildly dishonest.
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Also worth mentioning: How many posts are trying to make the argument about one op ed that used the term, "oppression" when describing a POTUS and VPOTUS protesting against an act of free speech, saying it was the kind of oppression this country was supposed to be against?


Oppression or oppressive has been used 43 times since I posted the first link to the op ed article that used it. Some of those are in quoted text so represent double counting. Still, it's a lot of posts arguing about whether or not Pence's act or Trump's speech were oppressive. Way to not discuss the reason for the NFL protests.
 
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phiwum said:
Not sure if you're replying to me, but I have no issues with the kneeling players. It is a perfectly reasonable protest about a serious problem. Nn

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Not directed at anyone. Just something I felt needed to be said.
 
Ziggurat said:
Yes, you missed something:
"But when the top two elected leaders of our democracy decide that political speech – in this case, a silent and non-violent form of political speech – is unacceptable to the point of walking out of the game where it happens, well, that’s chilling. That’s the kind of oppressive nonsense our ancestors were leaving when they crossed the Atlantic Ocean hundreds of years ago."​

That wasn't a player calling Pense's walkout "oppressive", it was some columnist, but it was absolutely a direct reference to Pence's walkout, not anything done by police.
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One oped and not the players. Are the players responsible for what other say of Pense's actions? Plus the quote clearly is relating the walkout to the much lager context of the President's repeated use of the resources and visibility of the federal government to attack a group of Americans exercising their political rights. I vote oppressive too in terms of Trump's goals and actions and those of his puppy dog Pense.
 
Worm said:
Not quite.

Military personnel salute. Everyone else places their hand over their heart.



seems pretty clear.
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Ok. I stand corrected.

ETA: Not quite so fast.

That is the current code. The "hand over the heart" section was added in 1976. So, while it has been official for some time, I stand by my previous observation, that it was done in imitation of the manner of reciting the Pledge of Allegiance, by people who didn't understand the symbolism of the hand over the heart. And it managed to get codified into the US code, because who really will argue against it?

(I knew I was never taught to put my hand over my heart during the national anthem, and I knew it was something that seemed to grow more common recently. By the time the code was revised to add the hand over heart, I had reached the advanced age of 14 years and so knew everything I needed to know.)
 
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Giordano said:
One oped and not the players.
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I never said the players. That was entirely your own insertion.

Are the players responsible for what other say of Pense's actions?
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I never claimed they were responsible.

Plus the quote clearly is relating the walkout to the much lager context of the President's repeated use of the resources and visibility of the federal government to attack a group of Americans exercising their political rights. I vote oppressive too in terms of Trump's goals and actions and those of his puppy dog Pense.
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So you want in on the paranoia too? You're welcome to it. A bit ironic, though, after trying to make sure that nobody but the author of that piece got tainted with it.
 
Regnad Kcin said:
The "expectations of the office" are that he break tie votes in the senate and be available should the president expire.
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Well, no. Those are his constitutionally mandated duties. Our expectations are more expansive than that. You can argue that they shouldn't be, but if so, the problem is in no way unique to Pense or to this particular event, and that issue would best be addressed in an entirely different thread.
 
Minoosh said:
I'm not sure this stunt won't backfire.
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I've given up hoping. He has done so many things that should have backfired, and yet here he is in the Oval Office, and here we are in the internet posting anonymous complaints.

I don't understand it, but somehow it works for the SOB.
 
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