Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories V: Five for Fighting

[MicahJava]

[qimg]https://media.giphy.com/media/10kWDRGNgMf0hq/giphy.gif[/qimg]

You have yet to reconcile your pet theory with the position of the head at the time of impact, and how a lower entry point definitively rules out a shot from the 6th floor, because every other human who have seen this footage sees JFK's head bent forward exposing the external occipital protuberance. How do you not see this?

You can not see Kennedy's EOP area on the Zapruder film. The EOP shot could've happened as early as when the limousine appeared behind the sign. The disoriented body language of Kennedy could indicate some minor damage to his cerebellum.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Because it is almost certainly impossible for a shot to have entered the EOP and exited the top-right side of the head while corroborating the official evidence. The official X-rays show no fragments on the back of the brain. The official brain photographs show a virtually intact cerebellum. The trajectory at z312 is a sharp 80 degree angle upwards turn.

Then we can confirm there was no shot in the EOP at all, and your understanding of the wound is too low. The highlighted negates your pet theory of the bullet entering the EOP and exiting through a throat, unless you are going to explain how the bullet cause no trauma on your proposed path.

Ergo, the official record remains the best explanation of all evidence.

The bullet entered higher than you believe, and the trauma caused a massive ejecta from known exit wound at the top/side of the head.

 

[Tomtomkent]

You can not see Kennedy's EOP area on the Zapruder film. The EOP shot could've happened as early as when the limousine appeared behind the sign. The disoriented body language of Kennedy could indicate some minor damage to his cerebellum.

You can not work out where the EOP was pointing, from the angle of his head?
Your body language analysis is meaningless. It could as easily mean his back brace (a known factor, not an assumed factor) was limiting his movements.

 

[bknight]

Because it is almost certainly impossible for a shot to have entered the EOP and exited the top-right side of the head while corroborating the official evidence. The official X-rays show no fragments on the back of the brain. The official brain photographs show a virtually intact cerebellum. The trajectory at z312 is a sharp 80 degree angle upwards turn.

Your continual reposting of nonsense will never make it fact. IIRC you haven't seen all the brain images and therefore can't make any such statement. When JFK's head is hit the trajectory aligns with the 6th floor of the TSB not 80 degrees upward. How do you post these erroneous statements in good conscience?

To be compatible with the official evidence, a shot entering the EOP could be the first of more than one head shot. And then it would probably have to travel downwards to exit the throat because the x-rays show no whole bullet. Cyril Wecht identified a possible tiny bullet fragment in the upper neck area, but no whole bullet unless you want to listen to Jerrol Custer's testimony of a missing x-ray showing fragments in the middle neck area. Besides that possibility, the only other options are either high-tech ammunition that leaves no large particles of a bullet after penetration, or some kind of removal of a bullet lodged in the base of the head before the X-rays were taken. There is that FBI memo from the early time of the autopsy mentioning a "bullet lodged behind the President's ear".

And you continue to post gibberish about a bullet that enters the back of the head and exits the throat. No such trajectory was cited in the autopsy. As for high tech ammunition, where is the evidence any such available in 1963?

Only the CT wacko Wendt identifies a mysterious bullet fragment in the upper neck area, no other qualifies individual corroborates this discovery.
Again stating incorrect actions and evidence will never make them be correct.

 

[Axxman300]

You can not see Kennedy's EOP area on the Zapruder film. The EOP shot could've happened as early as when the limousine appeared behind the sign. The disoriented body language of Kennedy could indicate some minor damage to his cerebellum.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!...no.

You know why we know JFK was not struck in the head behind the sign? His arms are moving, and he's not limp, and there is no blood.

Here's the thing, damage to the cerebellum (which there wasn't any BTW) means he loses all motor function. Compare that to the ACTUAL headshot and look what his body does.

Not only is this stupid, it's lame. The old "It happened behind the sign so who can say" BS routine. People were standing right there by the sign, nobody saw his head get hit. NOBODY.

This is fiction, a lie, a pathetic grasping of non-existent straws.

 

[Axxman300]

Because it is almost certainly impossible for a shot to have entered the EOP and exited the top-right side of the head while corroborating the official evidence. The official X-rays show no fragments on the back of the brain. The official brain photographs show a virtually intact cerebellum. The trajectory at z312 is a sharp 80 degree angle upwards turn.

Certainly impossible? On what gun range have you done your extensive research?

In the real world the 6.5x52mm Carcano round IS capable. We know this from the FBI tests, and the actual shooting. Your ignorance about ballistics, and your continued commitment not to learn handicaps your pet theory.

The reason there are no fragments in the back of the brain is the directed force involved: back to front. We've talked about cavitation and over-pressure as the bullet blew into the skull and passed through the brain. Everything you see in the video and the autopsy is consistent with one 6.5x52mm round.

I just posted video evidence. Where's yours?

 

[RoboTimbo]

Because it is almost certainly impossible for a shot to have entered the EOP and exited the top-right side of the head

Oh good, you've answered your own misunderstanding then.

Are you losing this badly in other threads you're participating in?

 

[MicahJava]

Then we can confirm there was no shot in the EOP at all, and your understanding of the wound is too low. The highlighted negates your pet theory of the bullet entering the EOP and exiting through a throat, unless you are going to explain how the bullet cause no trauma on your proposed path.

Ergo, the official record remains the best explanation of all evidence.

The bullet entered higher than you believe, and the trauma caused a massive ejecta from known exit wound at the top/side of the head.

A projectile could have entered the EOP and traveled under the cerebellum, hitting the base of the skull.

 

[MicahJava]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!...no.

You know why we know JFK was not struck in the head behind the sign? His arms are moving, and he's not limp, and there is no blood.

Here's the thing, damage to the cerebellum (which there wasn't any BTW) means he loses all motor function. Compare that to the ACTUAL headshot and look what his body does.

Not only is this stupid, it's lame. The old "It happened behind the sign so who can say" BS routine. People were standing right there by the sign, nobody saw his head get hit. NOBODY.

This is fiction, a lie, a pathetic grasping of non-existent straws.

Kennedy would not have instantly died or rendered unconscious if a shot entered near the EOP and traveled under the cerebellum. He would have lost motor function, though. Which is consistent with his body language at z190-224+

 

[MicahJava]

You can not work out where the EOP was pointing, from the angle of his head?
Your body language analysis is meaningless. It could as easily mean his back brace (a known factor, not an assumed factor) was limiting his movements.

While Kennedy appears to be trying to point to his throat after z224, his hands also move almost in front of his face, as if his motor skills were inhibited.

 

[MicahJava]

Your continual reposting of nonsense will never make it fact. IIRC you haven't seen all the brain images and therefore can't make any such statement. When JFK's head is hit the trajectory aligns with the 6th floor of the TSB not 80 degrees upward. How do you post these erroneous statements in good conscience?

What trajectory? The HSCA's location for the "exit wound" was based on a flawed interpretation of the open-cranium photographs. The cowlick entry location, we all know how little basis that has. The X-rays and photographs are open to interpretation, while the statements from the doctors and autopsy participants are unambiguous. Nobody at the autopsy said the entry wound was on the top of the head.

Only the CT wacko Wendt identifies a mysterious bullet fragment in the upper neck area, no other qualifies individual corroborates this discovery.
Again stating incorrect actions and evidence will never make them be correct.

Wecht did not fabricate his findings to be published in a scientific journal, and he also never brought it up after that (he noted that he thought that fragment might be from the back wound).

 

[MicahJava]

Certainly impossible? On what gun range have you done your extensive research?

In the real world the 6.5x52mm Carcano round IS capable. We know this from the FBI tests, and the actual shooting. Your ignorance about ballistics, and your continued commitment not to learn handicaps your pet theory.

The reason there are no fragments in the back of the brain is the directed force involved: back to front. We've talked about cavitation and over-pressure as the bullet blew into the skull and passed through the brain. Everything you see in the video and the autopsy is consistent with one 6.5x52mm round.

I just posted video evidence. Where's yours?

You do not accept the EOP entry wound location, so your comment is meaningless unless you do. The official X-rays, at least according to the best information we have, do not show any metal fragments in the occipital area like we would expect from a shot entering the EOP and exiting the top of the head.

 

[HSienzant]

You do not accept the EOP entry wound location, so your comment is meaningless unless you do.

Hilarious. Conceding a point for the sake of argument is apparently lost on you.

The official X-rays, at least according to the best information we have, do not show any metal fragments in the occipital area like we would expect from a shot entering the EOP and exiting the top of the head.[emphasis added]

Who is "WE" in the above and what is your source of this "WE" information?

I guess you wore out your capital "I" key and got tired of hearing how you have no expertise in all the various fields you offer your lay opinion, so your opinion - which more often than not conflicts with the known experts opinions - is pretty much worthless.

So you're trying the editorial "WE". We're not fooled by that. It's still just you and your uneducated opinion.

Hank

 

[HSienzant]

Kennedy would not have instantly died or rendered unconscious if a shot entered near the EOP and traveled under the cerebellum. He would have lost motor function, though. Which is consistent with his body language at z190-224+

Where'd you get your medical degree again? Remind us.

Are you now an expert in neurology? Where'd you serve your residency?

Oh, you're just making it up as you go along? That's what we expected.

Hank

 

[HSienzant]

What trajectory? The HSCA's location for the "exit wound" was based on a flawed interpretation of the open-cranium photographs.

Well, it's a good thing you came along to set all those pathology experts straight. When do you intend to devote your genius to the betterment of mankind and solve cancer and give us cold fusion?


[rolleyes]

The cowlick entry location, we all know how little basis that has.

[/Rolleyes].

The X-rays and photographs are open to interpretation

Certainly not by unqualified laymen like yourself.

while the statements from the doctors and autopsy participants are unambiguous. Nobody at the autopsy said the entry wound was on the top of the head.

It was in the rear of the head. The exit wound was in the top of the head.

Wecht did not fabricate his findings to be published in a scientific journal, and he also never brought it up after that (he noted that he thought that fragment might be from the back wound).

Then we're done here with this point. It's not evidence of anything out of place in the known solution to this crime.

 

[HSienzant]

While Kennedy appears to be trying to point to his throat after z224, his hands also move almost in front of his face, as if his motor skills were inhibited.

Dr. John Lattimer -- believe it or not, a person with an actual medical degree, unlike yourself -- discovered the cause and gave credit where it was due. It's called the 'Thorburn Position' and it was first noted by an English doctor (Thorburn) in patients suffering damage to the neck vertebra. It has nothing to do with damage to the brain.

Hank

 

[HSienzant]

A projectile could have entered the EOP and traveled under the cerebellum, hitting the base of the skull.

And then went where? And why didn't the pathologists with the body in front of them note any of this damage you conjecture 'could have happened'? And what happened to this bullet and why wasn't it found in the body or the car?

Your theories pretend to answer some questions, but they raise more questions than they answer.

And you know that. It's been pointed out to you frequently.

Yet you persist in pushing the nonsense.

Hank

 

[HSienzant]

[qimg]https://media.giphy.com/media/10kWDRGNgMf0hq/giphy.gif[/qimg]

You have yet to reconcile your pet theory with the position of the head at the time of impact, and how a lower entry point definitively rules out a shot from the 6th floor, because every other human who have seen this footage sees JFK's head bent forward exposing the external occipital protuberance [to a shooter behind JFK - Hank]. How do you not see this?

You can not see Kennedy's EOP area on the Zapruder film. The EOP shot could've happened as early as when the limousine appeared behind the sign. The disoriented body language of Kennedy could indicate some minor damage to his cerebellum.

It's not whether we could see it in the Zapruder film. It's whether the gunman known to be on the sixth floor, southeastern corner window of the Depository could see it. And he could.

You're great at responding to points not made. Not so good at rebutting those points that are actually made. Those you pretty much ignore. What you're doing is called attacking a strawman argument. Look it up and don't do it again.

I'd love for you to cite some known examples of people being shot in the back of the head in wartime with a Mannlicher Carcano 6.5 round and still be functional enough to point to their throat.

Got anything along those lines?

Of course not.

Hank

 

[HSienzant]

Because it is almost certainly impossible for a shot to have entered the EOP and exited the top-right side of the head while corroborating the official evidence.

That's not what the official autopsists concluded about where the wound was nor what it did when they examined the remains of JFK at Bethesda hospital on the night of the assassination.

Your argument ignores the fact that they had the body in front of them and said the wound was above the EOP ... you put it in the EOP. You never examined the body and no have medical background. You Google stuff and think that makes you an expert on the subject.

The official X-rays show no fragments on the back of the brain. The official brain photographs show a virtually intact cerebellum. The trajectory at z312 is a sharp 80 degree angle upwards turn.

The autopsy report and the autopsists never put the wound in the EOP. That's YOUR invention.

To be compatible with the official evidence, a shot entering the EOP could be the first of more than one head shot.

Still the wrong location for the wound. Garbage in, garbage out. Since you cannot locate the wound in the rear of the head with any accuracy, and keep putting it lower than it actually was, of course your conclusions are wrong.

And then it would probably have to travel downwards to exit the throat because the x-rays show no whole bullet.

The autopsy doctors identified where the bullet exited. It exited the top of the head. Remember? And two large fragments - most likely of that bullet - were discovered in the Presidential limo after the assassination in front of the President. And those two large fragments were determined to have been fired from Oswald's Mannlicher-Carcano rifle bearing the serial number C2766 -- to the exclusion of all other weapons in the world.

Nothing you say here will change those conclusions. Falsely putting the rear head wound in the EOP won't help your cause any. It wasn't there. You know it wasn't there. You yourself conceded it was above the EOP, according to every one of the pathologists who examined the body or the extant autopsy materials.

There is that FBI memo from the early time of the autopsy mentioning a "bullet lodged behind the President's ear".

We covered that in detail in the past. That is a hearsay mention by someone NOT at the autopsy (Belmont) and you know it. Repeating nonsense won't make it more true. But I suppose you can wait six months and bring it up again and pretend anew it's something that supports your case. It doesn't. There are no photographs or x-rays or mention by anyone at the autopsy of a bullet lodged behind the President's ear. You are anomaly hunting in hearsay documents. Good luck with that.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11755678&postcount=2406

Hank

 

[HSienzant]

Using CTist first report logic, the autopsy report accurately describes the entry wound

Which is contrary to where you put it.

and the autopsy face sheet accurately illustrates the location of the entry wound.

Does it also accurately illustrate the location of the exit wound? You can't claim the autopsy is accurate when you dispute where the bullet entered and where it exited. You disagree with the autopsy on both the entry and exit.

The fact that every autopsy doctor, and six autopsy participants who claimed to see an entry wound that day also corroborated the lower EOP location helps.

Not an EOP location per the autopsy. Above the EOP per the autopsy.

The fact that none of the official evidence can exclude this location for the entry wound also helps.

All the official evidence from the day of the assassination excludes the location of the EOP. The official evidence puts it above the EOP. Your pretense otherwise is just that - pretense.

Hank