Merged Jeffrey MacDonald did it. He really did.

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CLAIM: RESPONSE: You are not a forensic examiner, so your opinion is meaningless. Colette's pajama top was most certainly a part of the Pajama Top Theory. As I mentioned in a prior post, all of the holes in Colette's pajama top were perfectly round and the pathologist reported that her body was inert when stabbed with the ice pick.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com

The jury and 4th Circuit judges were never informed that Murtagh had asked Glisson at the Army CID lab to attempt the pajama folding experiment, and she had reported it was impossible. It was more cover-up by Murtagh, like the fibers with no known source. Murtagh had no respect for the Brady law, and he thought he would never be caught or punished in a land which is supposed to be governed by law.

This is from: www.crimetraveller.org/2017/08/an-i...tain-jeffrey-macdonald-a-critique-of-the-case

I hope this is short enough:

Thornton also pointed out to the jurors that the prosecutors had not accounted for the holes made in Colette's own pink pajama top which lay between the blue pajama top and her bare chest. This garment, worn by the murder victim, amounts to a missing piece of a jigsaw. By not accounting for this garment the experiment, lacks any scientific validity
 
Living In A Dream World

CLAIM: The jury and 4th Circuit judges were never informed that Murtagh had asked Glisson at the Army CID lab to attempt the pajama folding experiment, and she had reported it was impossible.

RESPONSE: In 1970, Janice Glisson was a serologist and had just begun her training (e.g., Dillard Browning) on hair/fiber analysis. Not surprisingly, the prosecution decided to call hair/fiber experts Browning and Paul Stombaugh to the stand. Charges of a cover-up by Murtagh are simply a product of your prodigious imagination.

This is from: http://www.crimetraveller.org/2017/0...ue-of-the-case

Thornton also pointed out to the jurors that the prosecutors had not accounted for the holes made in Colette's own pink pajama top which lay between the blue pajama top and her bare chest. This garment, worn by the murder victim, amounts to a missing piece of a jigsaw. By not accounting for this garment the experiment, lacks any scientific validity.

RESPONSE: Clearly, the author of this puff piece has no knowledge of the totality of the Pajama Top Theory. You have ignored my prior posts on this subject, but that will not make that data magically vanish into thin air.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
 
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Misconceptions

The two biggest misconceptions about this case are that inmate's "version of events never changed," and that if he stayed on the East Coast, the Kassabs and/or the CID would not have pursued him for the murder of Colette/Kimmie/Kristen.

In a number of instances, inmate's statements on 2/17 and 2/18/70, are quite different from the statements he made during the 4/6/70 CID interview. Examples include...

- One of his initial claims was that he was attacked by two black males and one white male.

- The number and severity of his wounds increased over time.

- The timeline of his movements after 'finding" Colette dead in the master bedroom also morphed over time. For example, he originally stated that he didn't walk deep into the kitchen area, but his story changed once he was told that his blood was found on the floor near the kitchen sink.

- This included an increase in the number of stops inside the apartment and the nature of those stops. For example, inmate told CID investigators that he washed his hands a 2nd time during his route inside 544 Castle Drive.

In terms of inmate's move to California, the CID's reinvestigation was already in motion before he moved to the West Coast, and Freddy Kassab was suspicious of his son in-law prior to inmate's move to California.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
 
You can't discuss this matter on a forum with tweets and soundbites without providing any references. That's too short and not profound enough.

The Army CID is idle and incompetent and the FBI made up the forensic evidence. If there was any blood in the kitchen it could be explained by contamination. The forensic investigation was botched, and the military police were making drinks in the kitchen with their hands and clothes and shoes covered in blood. The only inconsistency I have ever noticed was where he said that Stoeckely was wearing beige boots, and on another occasion white boots. As Byn keeps harping on year after year that could be explained by MacDonald's concussion. It affects memory. Newspaper reports are not always accurate, or legal evidence.

From the internet:

"RebelWithaCause or anyone, Can you comment*on the interview with Newsday*reporter*John Cummings?"

Here was what JRM had to say about that interview*during his Grand Jury testimony:
*Q* Dr. MacDonald, I gave you a copy of the statement that was published by Robert Cummings.
A* John Cummings.
Q* John Cummings.* And I asked you to review it and inform us today whether there was anything that you felt that should be explained or modified so far as that statement is concerned.
A* The answer is essentially what I said yesterday.* This is not a statement under oath; it's a statement to a reporter for a news story.* And I think it should be viewed as such.* There are a lot of things in here that now, if I looked critically at it, aren't exactly correct.* But I don't see what relevancy that has.
 
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Magical Mystery Tour

STATEMENT: You can't discuss this matter on a forum with tweets and soundbites without providing any references. That's too short and not profound enough.

RESPONSE: Ah, what?

CLAIM: The Army CID is idle and incompetent and the FBI made up the forensic evidence.

RESPONSE: Your opinion and/or fantasy narratives are meaningless.

CLAIM: If there was any blood in the kitchen it could be explained by contamination.

RESPONSE: If? According to that pesky documented record, 5 drops of inmate's Type B blood were found near the kitchen sink. The drops were not the result of transfer, but the result of direct bleeding from a height of 20 inches.

CLAIM: The forensic investigation was botched, and the military police were making drinks in the kitchen with their hands and clothes and shoes covered in blood.

RESPONSE: Hate to break it to ya, but there were no bloody shoe or handprints found in the kitchen nor is there a single CID document that mentions investigators walking into the kitchen with bloody hands, clothes, or shoes.

CLAIM:The only inconsistency I have ever noticed was where he said that Stoeckely was wearing beige boots, and on another occasion white boots.

RESPONSE: The only inconsistency, eh? LOL. Care to respond to the following data?

http://www.themacdonaldcase.com/html/mmt.html
 
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lather, rinse, repeat - the landlord of MacFantasy Island needs new material. It would be so nice if he ceased arguing debunked/disproven items.
 
This is what a PROFESSIONAL thinks about all that from some kind of Zeta forum in 2008. Retired LEO:

For some odd reason, the different justice systems in NC are all intermingled. It appears that if the public thinks your guilty, the judges all think your guilty in NC. Exculpatory evidence was hidden or tossed in a local trash bin. The detectives that handled this case remind me of Gotlieb and Himan, how bad is that. Not much has changed with the detective skills in NC, except they may have learned to make up bigger lies and are better at hiding evidence of innocence.

I have followed this case closely and found many missteps, I know that because I was responsible for some crime scenes, with a dead body or a rape victim. With a body, everyone entering or leaving the scene is logged in and out. The MacDonald case was pure magic for the prosecution, no evidence, just speculation. MP statements ignored, not investigated. None of the original responders were interviewed. This whole case was built with no clothe, just fabrications and speculation. Hopefully all you NC residents on this site never get accused of a crime, because in NC if you are accused you are guilty.
 
Timing

STATEMENT: This is what a PROFESSIONAL thinks about all that from some kind of Zeta forum in 2008. Retired LEO:

Several thoughts...

1) It is impossible to determine whether this person is who he/she says he/she is.

2) The post is filled with assumptions, hyperbole, and limited knowledge of the CID's original investigation and their massive reinvestigation.

3) When this poster states that the "MacDonald case was pure magic for the prosecution, no evidence, just speculation," he or she is basically admitting that he or she knows little about the prosecution's case at trial.

4) The landlord forgets that several PROFESSIONALS from both the CID and FBI testified to their analysis of evidentiary items that directly linked inmate to this crime.

5) I don't think it's a coincidence that this poster produced this nonsense shortly after Judge Fox denied inmate a new trial.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
 
Let us not forget that inmate was not tried in the STATE COURT system, he was tried in the FEDERAL COURT. More proof, if it was needed, that this alleged LEO doesn't know a darn thing about THIS CASE.
 
The judges are out of touch and out of touch with reality. They are very limited, and even biased, apart from three judges at the Supreme Court in 1981. This debate will still be going on when MacDonald is dead and gone. This is more from that Retired LEO on that Zeta MacDonald case forum in 2008:

Yo Clowns, he is still a doctor, I have written to him in prison and he has responded, my brother has also written him and he does respond to all letters. Dr. MacDonald could have been released years ago, but would not admit to the crime or apologize for it. When the MP's arrived at his home that night they absolutely destroyed the crime scene. They had piss poor training, for that kind of crime. I believe that the Duke students would have been convicted in a Duirham courtroom, for a crime that never happened, it was a delusional female that would have convicted them. I thought that between the MacDonald case and the Duke case that law enforcement and prosecutors would be smarter and more up to date, I guess I was wrong. After all those years, it appears nothing has changed in NC?
 
Point of Fact: You have not proven that your quoted random internet poster is, indeed, "retired LEO".

Point of Fact: The medical license for Jeffrey Macdonald was rescinded YEARS ago, he is not a doctor of medicine any longer. He's a guy with a degree in medicine - not the same thing.

Point of Fact: The MPs believed they were responding to a domestic violence situation, not a murder. BUT....in both situations, the primary concern is rendering aid, not preserving the scene. Had ALL members been deceased (as would have happened with your fantasy that Macdonald was knocked unconscious and unable to defend himself against your mythical attack which left no real injuries); they would have withdrawn at once. But since the murderer hadn't bothered to commit suicide, rendering aid was the proper course of action. So, once again, you're blaming law enforcement for doing its job.

Point of Observation: You, Henri McPhee, are the one who is "out of touch with reality" if you truly think your generalities of dishonesty simply because you disagree with a ruling are valid.

Point of Observation from personal experience: Had Macdonald gone to a general court-martial in 1970, he would have gotten a relatively light sentence - the only time I've seen a life imprisonment was when both spouses were soldiers (and the perp was also in a gang); most killers of wife/children did less than a decade until the 1990's - when the attitude in the military changed on domestic violence.
 
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Point of Observation from personal experience: Had Macdonald gone to a general court-martial in 1970, he would have gotten a relatively light sentence - the only time I've seen a life imprisonment was when both spouses were soldiers (and the perp was also in a gang); most killers of wife/children did less than a decade until the 1990's - when the attitude in the military changed on domestic violence.

I think you may be right on a point of law that if the case had gone on to a general court-martial in 1970 that MacDonald would have been found not guilty as charged, and he would then not have had re-investigations and the Army CID and FBI and Kassab and Judge Dupree and Judge Fox and a biased jury on his back in the following years. That would have been double jeopardy, which does not apply on just the Article 32 proceedings, but does apply to a court-martial.

Segal tried to avoid a trial after the grand jury under the same sort of double jeopardy rule, and the speedy trial rule, but he was overruled by the silly fools in the Supreme Court, who were under pressure from Murtagh and Judge Dupree.
 
Point of Observation from personal experience: Had Macdonald gone to a general court-martial in 1970, he would have gotten a relatively light sentence - the only time I've seen a life imprisonment was when both spouses were soldiers (and the perp was also in a gang); most killers of wife/children did less than a decade until the 1990's - when the attitude in the military changed on domestic violence.

the above from desi's post DOES NOT SAY that inmate would have gotten off. it says that he'd have probably gotten a light sentence because at THAT time frame the military attitude was "if we'd wanted you to have a wife and family we would have issued them to you". Getting a relatively light sentence is not the same thing as getting away with murder. Inmate slaughtered his family and make no mistake he is where he belongs since the death penalty was not an option. There was no jeopardy (double or otherwise) attached to the Grand Jury or trial. Thankfully for the VICTIMS in this case there was a very wise and honorable Judge who strove to keep the trial fair and excelled at that, there was a prosecutor who took his position as VICTIM advocate seriously and meticulously and studiously made sure every single piece of evidence/testimony used at trial was above reproach. The trial was one of the first to ever use a jury coordinator to help select and seat a jury and Bernie Segal was the one to hire such....the jury coordinator helped Bernie voir dire and seat the best jury possible and thankfully they took the responsibility and duty to be fair and impartial and to judge only on the evidence and testimony present seriously, so much so that several jurors admitted that they were looking for ANYTHING that would have allowed them to vote "not guilty" but every single sourced piece of evidence presented pointed to inmate as the sole criminal actor in these horrific murders and they did what was the right, reasonable, responsible, and intelligent thing and voted guilty x3.
 
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I'm so proud of you, byn! You even remembered the logic for it! Go, girl!

Actually, if Segal had saved all that thunder he used at the Article 32 hearing for the court martial, it's a distinct possibility Macdonald would have been acquitted. So, there's almost no end to Segal's incompetence in this case.
 
So....

5 years after this thread started and decades after the murder the defense still claims that crazed hippies came to the house without wepons, managed to easily overcome a Green Beret but not kill him, brutally murder all the other family members with objects found in the house, leave absolutely zero evidence of them ever being there despite the struggles and brutality of the murders....all while a girl with them chants like Hollywood central castings idea of what a hippy would say?

.....sure....
 
Fantasy Narrative

KB: Yup, and these same drug-crazed hippie home invaders not only ignore the prodigious stash of drugs/syringes in the residence, they ignore inmate's inert body and inflict post-mortum damage on Colette, Kimmie, and Kristen.

http://www.macdonaldcasefacts.com
 
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JTF: do not forget that after doing all this, they put Colette back into the Master bedroom and tucked both girls into their own beds.
 
So....

5 years after this thread started and decades after the murder the defense still claims that crazed hippies came to the house without wepons, managed to easily overcome a Green Beret but not kill him, brutally murder all the other family members with objects found in the house, leave absolutely zero evidence of them ever being there despite the struggles and brutality of the murders....all while a girl with them chants like Hollywood central castings idea of what a hippy would say?

.....sure....

There is no firm evidence that any bodies were moved apart from made up and fabricated and manufactured evidence by FBI hair and fiber men. MacDonald was screwed.

The intruders came into the house equipped with ice picks and knives and possibly wearing surgical gloves because Helena Stoeckley worked in a hospital at the time. MacDonald put up a strong fight, but he was hit on the head, possibly with a baseball bat by a hard cookie black man, probably Dwight Smith. The intruders left behind unsourced fibers. What do you expect them to leave. Their identity cards? Stoeckley was chanting gibberish holding a candle which was nothing to do with Hollywood castings.

It was a poor investigation. Numerous confessions by the real culprits were rejected and ignored. That was clearly erroneous. The forensics were illegally withheld from the defense. By law people are put in prison, or executed, based on facts and evidence, not on beliefs and opinions and con artist lawyers and tabloid journalists.
 
There is no firm evidence that any bodies were moved apart from made up and fabricated and manufactured evidence by FBI hair and fiber men.

There is plenty of evidence that bodies were moved. Let us stick with the 2 easiest examples:

- 6" full thickeness soaking stain (Type AB) of Kimberley's blood and brain serum on the master bedroom carpet near the closet.
*in order for blood to seep through the carpet, the underlayment, and padding and get to the floor boards Kimberley had to lay there for quite some time.
*Kimberley was found tucked into her bed
*Kimberley's blood type left a trail from the master bedroom back to her room; the type of drop and positions clearly show she'd been transported from the master bedroom to her bed.
*fibers from inmate's pj top were found IN Kimberley's bedding

- Type A blood splattered above the bed in Kristen's room and Type A blood on Kristen's bedding.
*also 3 bloody footprints EXITING Kristen's room made in Type A blood by inmate's feet
*bloody footprints showed that inmate was carrying something of significant weight when he made the bloody footprints
*no other Type A blood on the floor of Kristen's room
*Colette was found on the floor of the master bedroom.

The intruders came into the house equipped with ice picks and knives and possibly wearing surgical gloves because Helena Stoeckley worked in a hospital at the time.

Helena Stoeckley did not work in a hospital. The knives, ice pick and the club plus surgical gloves all came from the household. Even the defense doesn't try to fly this ridiculous nonsensical argument.

....put up a strong fight, but he was hit on the head, possibly with a baseball bat by a hard cookie black man, probably Dwight Smith.

Dwight Smith was not involved in the murders he was investigated FULLY and has been cleared of any possible involvement. Inmate fought with Colette and he brutalized and killed her and then made up a nonsensical story to try and cover up his actions. He was not hit in the head and he was not rendered unconscious. YOU have been told plenty of times, and it is not impossible to check the FACTS yourself......it is not possible to be rendered unconscious and then remember the blow that caused it. it is not possible to have detailed memory of the events leading up to the loss of consciousness. inmate's story is medically impossible. The person who put up a strong fight was Colette. You can tell SHE was the fighter because both her arms were broken, her face was badly battered - unrecognizable.

The intruders left behind unsourced fibers. What do you expect them to leave. Their identity cards? Stoeckley was chanting gibberish holding a candle which was nothing to do with Hollywood castings.

Unsourced fibers are forensically useless. IF there had been intruders they'd have left some sign of themselves. Possibly their id cards could have been left, but they'd have left some hairs, some fibers, some fingerprints - something that could be sourced. No way there were 7 intruders in that house and left nothing of themselves. Stoeckley and Greg Mitchell were the only two remaining viable suspects (even the defense admitted that) at the time of the DNA testing. NONE of the exhibits matched Stoeckley or Mitchell because they were not there.....none of the people Helena said were there were there.....which is not at all surprising considering that her confessions (and recantations) never matched the evidence nor did they match inmate's story. Clear indication that she lied.

It was a poor investigation.

This case has been more thoroughly investigated than most. The re-investigation alone lasted over 2 years and encompasses many many volumes of material. But most importantly, the DNA evidence clinched what the trial already proved. Inmate butchered his family, brutally and savagely and then tried to get out of being punished for his actions. He is a base coward, a narcissistic sociopathic bastard.

Numerous confessions by the real culprits were rejected and ignored.

Helena's confessions and recantations were thoroughly investigated. Her stories didn't match the evidence and they didn't match inmate's tales either. She was a sad, pathetic drug addict. She had a penchant for telling tall tales. Like many other sick, lonely, drugged out, and/or crazy people she inserted herself into the story. She wasn't there - which if you count the number of times she was asked - she gave "I can't help you, I wasn't there" as her answer more than twice as often as she gave her false confessions that were easily disproven.

The forensics were illegally withheld from the defense.

No evidence, forensic or otherwise were withheld from the defense. The defense didn't review all the evidence but that was because they wasted months on trying to get the government to allow the evidence to be shipped across the country. that wasn't going to happen and it was perfectly legal to insist that the evidence be reviewed in North Carolina where it was securely stored. The government offered the defense laboratory space for their review of the evidence. The fact that they waited so long to take advantage is not the fault of the government. Also, it would not have made a difference because the evidence clearly shows that inmate killed his family. period.

By law people are put in prison, or executed, based on facts and evidence, not on beliefs and opinions and con artist lawyers and tabloid journalists.

Exactly, henri. that is why inmate is in prison. the evidence showed that he was guilty. you are the only one who discusses this case using opinion. the rest of us use facts.

too bad that inmate hired a con artist lawyer like Segal.
 
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