Brexit: Now What? Part III

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Strawberry said:
Um....I think Dundalk would always be accessible from the Republic, being as its actually part of the Republic. ;)
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Oops. Thanks. For some reason I often get Newry and Dundalk mixed up.

Strawberry said:
In other news, the EU parliament has proposed that NI should stay in the single market....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...stoms-union-european-parliament-a7972596.html
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Note that this is
"set to enrage DUP MPs propping up Ms May’s Government"​
 
Craig B said:
So Derry, Dundalk and other places will be accessible from the Republic without any border checks? That's a fascinating prospect. What does the DUP have to say about that?
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They are now. The DUP's problem will be the customs checks on the ferry to Stranraer.
 
Craig B said:
Oops. Thanks. For some reason I often get Newry and Dundalk mixed up.
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Yeah I was going to post an ill prepped reply, but I see you withdrew that particular remark, After all, referring to Dundalk as NI is pretty much a death sentence from either side. Quite some years ago, I attended an funeral in the Ardoyne. I have never felt quite so uncomfortable. suggesting that Dundalk is any part of NI is actually incitement to violence and bodily harm from both sides.

And you should have been aware of such a geographical sensitivity because... anyone ...anyone ...Bueller... Bueller?

Well. no. Because it would be stupid to expect that anyone not in situ should be aware of trivial tribal squabbles or even which side was what. Even the geography of that neck of the woods is open to some messed up questions. Did Billy or Jimmy win? Now, the vast majority of us both north and south, would simply apply a gentle geographical correction and perhaps some gentle mockery. Ho, ho, ho and no harm done, However, there remain a sediment of utter froot-loops who will happily kill you for saying any such thing.

For those wingnuts, it is not enough that you freely admitted an error, you must now declare. queen and country, or free state. Yes, there really are such backward folks and yes they will kill you without a thought. Because all of them are lunatics, sides matter not a whit.

So what the hell, you might ask, is Ireland. Well, lots of diverse things. Mostly conflicting. But that is true of all nation states, no?

I would dearly love to be able to make a statement like "we hate you because..." but nobody seems able to go any further than the word "because".

In short, you don't understand the conflict because nobody involved does iether, not the Dumb Uppity Prod party, nor the FU party. It's a circus

Craig B said:
Note that this is
"set to enrage DUP MPs propping up Ms May’s Government"​
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Interesting, I have yet to find anything that fails to enrage the DUP. Women seem a particular issue. And sex. And women with sex, or having sex, or enjoying sex or even being a sex.

Even more weird are those proponents of a united Ireland. No. Just no. While there are a few who desire such a thing on idealogical grounds, good for them. it isn't going to happen in the real world, get over it. The UK will have none of it, the EU will have none of it and all sides of NI religion will have none of it. To cap it all, those of us in the south don't want them.

Some people seem to think it ia some happy-clappy-kum-bai-yas nirvana, but it isn't. we lack the capacity to manufacture that many body bags
 
Aber said:
They are now. The DUP's problem will be the customs checks on the ferry to Stranraer.
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Yes customs and immigration checks; and that will be necessitated by the end of the existing common travel and trading arrangements, which currently permit the open border.

The Orange "loyalists" will have a real ideological problem if the "border" is shifted to Stranraer. They want a diamond-hard Brexit, but then all manner of weird foreigners will be able to travel unimpeded from Romist Dublin, nay from Rome via Dublin if they are so minded, even unto the Walls of Londonderry, while Protestants will be subjected to border formalities when travelling back to Glasgow from a visit to Belfast to celebrate the anniversary of the Battle of the Boyne. How can loyal subjects of Her Majesty be treated like that?
 
Boris wades in again.

In his interview with the Sun, he called for four conditions for Brexit, which were then described by the paper as his "four red lines":

- Transition period must be a maximum of two years

- UK must refuse to accept new EU rules during that period

- No payments for access to the single market after the end of the transition period

- UK must not agree to shadow EU rules to gain access to the single market

He says: "The crucial thing I want to get over to Sun readers about Brexit is that it is going to be great and we need to believe in ourselves and believe we can do it. It is unstoppable."
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We're heading for a diamond hard Brexit :mad:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41441444

As others have said, it's all about the Tory leadership and **** the country
 
abaddon said:
Yeah I was going to post an ill prepped reply, but I see you withdrew that particular remark, After all, referring to Dundalk as NI is pretty much a death sentence from either side. Quite some years ago, I attended an funeral in the Ardoyne. I have never felt quite so uncomfortable. suggesting that Dundalk is any part of NI is actually incitement to violence and bodily harm from both sides.

And you should have been aware of such a geographical sensitivity because... anyone ...anyone ...Bueller... Bueller?

Well. no. Because it would be stupid to expect that anyone not in situ should be aware of trivial tribal squabbles or even which side was what. Even the geography of that neck of the woods is open to some messed up questions. Did Billy or Jimmy win? Now, the vast majority of us both north and south, would simply apply a gentle geographical correction and perhaps some gentle mockery. Ho, ho, ho and no harm done, However, there remain a sediment of utter froot-loops who will happily kill you for saying any such thing.

For those wingnuts, it is not enough that you freely admitted an error, you must now declare. queen and country, or free state. Yes, there really are such backward folks and yes they will kill you without a thought. Because all of them are lunatics, sides matter not a whit.

So what the hell, you might ask, is Ireland. Well, lots of diverse things. Mostly conflicting. But that is true of all nation states, no?

I would dearly love to be able to make a statement like "we hate you because..." but nobody seems able to go any further than the word "because".

In short, you don't understand the conflict because nobody involved does iether, not the Dumb Uppity Prod party, nor the FU party. It's a circus

Interesting, I have yet to find anything that fails to enrage the DUP. Women seem a particular issue. And sex. And women with sex, or having sex, or enjoying sex or even being a sex.

Even more weird are those proponents of a united Ireland. No. Just no. While there are a few who desire such a thing on idealogical grounds, good for them. it isn't going to happen in the real world, get over it. The UK will have none of it, the EU will have none of it and all sides of NI religion will have none of it. To cap it all, those of us in the south don't want them.

Some people seem to think it ia some happy-clappy-kum-bai-yas nirvana, but it isn't. we lack the capacity to manufacture that many body bags
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I don't agree with all of what you say, in particular that no side in any part of the island will have any of a United IrelandWP
Since the 2016 Brexit vote, support for reunification has increased, with 22% of respondents favourable towards reunification, up from 17% in 2013. 43% of Catholics would now back reunification, up from 35% in 2013. According to this survey, support for a referendum stands at 53% of Catholics, while 72% of Protestant respondents were opposed to the idea.​
This is not a majority, but it is not negligible. As to people expecting a happy clappy Kim bai ya yes nirvana, that is drivel which you have done a disservice to yourself as a serious commentator by writing down.
 
The Don said:
Boris wades in again.

We're heading for a diamond hard Brexit :mad:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41441444

As others have said, it's all about the Tory leadership and **** the country
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More Boris:

"The foreign secretary has been accused of “incredible insensitivity” after it emerged he recited part of a colonial-era Rudyard Kipling poem in front of local dignitaries while on an official visit to Myanmar in January."

In a Buddhist pagoda, no less. The UK ambassador had to step in to shut him up.

Second favourite to succeed May? Heaven help us.
 
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Strawberry said:
So how exactly are British businesses supposed to export to the single market if they don't produce goods which comply with EU rules? :rolleyes:
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There are EU rules which apply to the goods themselves, and rules about how they are produced - Social Chapter etc.
 
The Don said:
Boris wades in again.

We're heading for a diamond hard Brexit :mad:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41441444

As others have said, it's all about the Tory leadership and **** the country
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Perhaps.

An ongoing transition at the time of the next election would probably be disastrous for the Conservatives, and the UK gets PM Corbyn...

Boris wants to be PM, not leader of the opposition.
 
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GlennB said:
More Boris:

"The foreign secretary has been accused of “incredible insensitivity” after it emerged he recited part of a colonial-era Rudyard Kipling poem in front of local dignitaries while on an official visit to Myanmar in January."

In a Buddhist pagoda, no less. The UK ambassador had to step in to shut him up.

Second favourite to succeed May? Heaven help us.
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Now, if this makes the Burmese so incensed that they declare war on the UK, they might for a while forget about genociding the Royingya. Boris is a great humanitarian!

(is there a website that keeps track of all the countries Boris has insulted? Or maybe the reverse, "BoJo's Bucketlist"?)
 
GlennB said:
More Boris:

"The foreign secretary has been accused of “incredible insensitivity” after it emerged he recited part of a colonial-era Rudyard Kipling poem in front of local dignitaries while on an official visit to Myanmar in January."

In a Buddhist pagoda, no less. The UK ambassador had to step in to shut him up.

Second favourite to succeed May? Heaven help us.
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The ambassador managed to put a sock in Boris before he reached certain lines perhaps never before pronounced by a guest in a Buddhist place of worship
The previously unbroadcast footage shows the diplomat managing to halt Johnson before he could get to the line about a “Bloomin’ idol made o’ mud/ Wot they called the Great Gawd Budd”​
 
Information Analyst said:
Why should the CTA end? It existed pre-EU, and facilities the free movement of British and Irish citizens, not trade.
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I take that point. However the RoI will, after Brexit, be in an area of free within EU travel and the UK will not. Before the establishment of the EU there was no arrangement of that kind.

So it's not now a question only of "British and Irish citizens", is it?
 
Craig B said:
I take that point. However the RoI will, after Brexit, be in an area of free within EU travel and the UK will not. Before the establishment of the EU there was no arrangement of that kind.

So it's not now a question only of "British and Irish citizens", is it?
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The Republic is not within Schengen, so there are checks on travel with the rest of the EU.

Norwegian citizens have preferential status with other Scandinavian states, so there are precedents within the EU for complex cross-border arrangements.

Ending the Common Travel Area would be a major issue for the Republic - their citizens would lose rights in the UK.

And the biggest issue would be the EU forcing it to end.
 
Craig B said:
I take that point. However the RoI will, after Brexit, be in an area of free within EU travel and the UK will not. Before the establishment of the EU there was no arrangement of that kind.

So it's not now a question only of "British and Irish citizens", is it?
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You might not have notice, but the CTA currently includes territories that are not in the EU now, and never have been. It's also the case that free movement in the CTA does not apply to non-EU citizens. Ireland, for example, honours some visas for UK visitors, but not most others. The nature of freedom of movement for British and Irish citizens within the CTA is also much wider than the rights other EU citizens are entitled to in either country.
 
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Information Analyst said:
You might not have notice, but the CTA currently includes territories that are not in the EU now, and never have been. It's also the case that free movement in the CTA does not apply to non-EU citizens. Ireland, for example, honours some visas for UK visitors, but not most others. The nature of freedom of movement for British and Irish citizens within the CTA is also much wider than the rights other EU citizens are entitled to in either country.
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Those areas may not be EU members but they do sit inside the customs union which may throw up some other interesting challenges should the UK continue to insist that it wishes not to do that.
 
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