Merged General Holocaust denial discussion Part IV

[LemmyCaution]

Anyone who studies any of the witness testimony will quickly discover that it is prima facie absurd.

This isn't even an argument. It's nothing. Worthless verbiage.

But do note that the challenge to name one credible Jewish eyewitness and discuss their testimony, along with any corroborating testimony, and any physical or documentary evidence that supports their testimony, goes unanswered.

Except you've been given the following names, for starters, and in the case of Krzepicki and Rabinowicz a long analysis of their testimonies: Abraham Krzepicki/Jacob Rabinowitz, Kazimierz Sakowicz, Wilhelm Pfannenstiel, David Oleré, Anton Schmid, Stanislaw Szmmajzner

Which reminds me . . . how you coming with details on your claims about forgery and torture?
>> Who did the forgery, and when did they start? How did they persuade various Nazis to admit to it and, as a consequence, die? How were all the supporting documents found in archives on both sides of the Iron Curtain forged? When were they forged, who did the work, how did they get the documents into archives?
>> Tell us all about the torture of the defendants in the Einsatzgruppen trial (NMT, trial IX). Tell us who was tortured, who tortured these men and when, what the torture consisted of, what the aim was of the torture, how you know about the torture, and how the alleged torture figured in the witness' testimony and in the convictions.

Cat got you tongue, so to speak? You like to claim a lot . . . and then change the subject . . . LOL

 

[Elagabalus]

Anyone who studies any of the witness testimony will quickly discover that it is prima facie absurd. Another of my favorites is F. Meuller, who is by the way according to Yad Vashem director Yehuda Bauer the only man who saw the Jewish people die and lived to tell about it, and his testimony is incomparably absurd.

Don't take my word for it. But do note that the challenge to name one credible Jewish eyewitness and discuss their testimony, along with any corroborating testimony, and any physical or documentary evidence that supports their testimony, goes unanswered.

Stop telling porkies. Not only did I give Jewish eyewitnesses but I gave German eyewitnesses as well.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11952232#post11952232


http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11998260#post11998260

 

[Saggy]

This isn't even an argument. It's nothing. Worthless verbiage.

It is a simple fact, I don't discuss the hoax with my daughter, but I gave her Wiesel's book, which she was almost assigned as required reading by her school, and asked her to read the first six pages critically and to see if there were any obviously false statements.

She nailed it.

Try it, it's easy.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Stop telling porkies. Not only did I give Jewish eyewitnesses but I gave German eyewitnesses as well.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11952232#post11952232


http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11998260#post11998260

Thanks for these links, oldies but goodies . . . and for the reminder that Saggy has also refused to answer what I asked him in this post about 7 additional witness accounts: how is each (a) pathological, (b) degenerate, (c) preposterous, (d) absurd, or (e) all of the above?

 

[LemmyCaution]

It is a simple fact, I don't discuss the hoax with my daughter, but I gave her Wiesel's book, which she was almost assigned as required reading by her school, and asked her to read the first six pages critically and to see if there were any obviously false statements.

She nailed it.

Try it, it's easy.

You statement, to which I responded was not about Wiesel - it referred to "any of the witness testimony." You've been given names of witnesses to discuss - repeatedly - and just as repeatedly refused to discuss them. And we've shown how dishonest and ill informed your posts on your favorite witnesses are . . .

Strange I won't take the word of your perhaps non-existent middle school daughter . . .

As to "trying it" with Wiesel, already did:

And he's been proven wrong on the one claim he made about Wiesel

 

[Elagabalus]

It is a simple fact, I don't discuss the hoax with my daughter, but I gave her Wiesel's book, which she was almost assigned as required reading by her school, and asked her to read the first six pages critically and to see if there were any obviously false statements.

She nailed it.

Try it, it's easy.

Yawn. Personal anecdotes an' all that.

 

[Elagabalus]

Thanks for these links, oldies but goodies . . . and for the reminder that Saggy has also refused to answer what I asked him in this post about 7 additional witness accounts: how is each (a) pathological, (b) degenerate, (c) preposterous, (d) absurd, or (e) all of the above?

I believe (e) all of the above applies only to the Jews. However, Saggy also believes one can make an "Heroic Lie"-like padding out your C.V. telling people on the internet that you were involved in designing weapon systems, things of that nature are examples of "Heroic Lies". And they are never told by Jews.

 

[Saggy]

Yawn. Personal anecdotes an' all that.

More than that, a simple test anyone can try at home.

Note: My daughter first came back and reported, 'I've read the first 5 pages and didn't find anything wrong', and I had to remind her that I said to read the first 6 pages. The phantasmagoria jumps out like a cat off the page. She saw if of course.

For any non-hasbara, try it. 'Night' is online ....

Night

 

[LemmyCaution]

More than that, a simple test anyone can try at home.

Note: My daughter first came back and reported, 'I've read the first 5 pages and didn't find anything wrong', and I had to remind her that I said to read the first 6 pages. The phantasmagoria jumps out like a cat off the page. She saw if of course.

For any non-hasbara, try it.

Saggy, enjoyable as this is, and convinced as I am that if you had even an 8th grader's knowledge about the war and genocide it'd be an improvement over your current state, I am not going to debate with you an 8th grader's thoughts about the Holocaust. Especially not when you are so eager not to discuss this, any of these topics, the questions in this post, the photographs you requested, the physical evidence for Chełmno, this photograph, and so on.

 

[Dash80]

More than that, a simple test anyone can try at home.

Note: My daughter first came back and reported, 'I've read the first 5 pages and didn't find anything wrong', and I had to remind her that I said to read the first 6 pages. The phantasmagoria jumps out like a cat off the page. She saw if of course.

For any non-hasbara, try it. 'Night' is online ....

Night

What kind of Nazi propaganda are you feeding to your child?

I showed the bollocks you come out with to my daughter, she looked disgusted and shook her head saying "some people are crazy."

 

[LemmyCaution]

. . . For any non-hasbara, try it. . . .

Address the argument, not the arguer. I dare you to try that.

 

[Saggy]

At this point, I simply call to readers' attention that Saggy, failing basic discussion norms and unable to offer evidence-based arguments for his claims, repeatedly addresses the arguer, not the argument

In fact he repeatedly makes a false accusation about me and other members of this forum, that we are engaged in hasbara, despite his admitting that he has no way of knowing that his accusation is true ("there is no way to tell"). He makes the accusation anyway, because he thinks personal attacks will detract from his persistent failure to defend his claims and cover over his ignorance of this topic.

It is my hope that there are some non-hasbara readers of the thread, but I believe there are very few if any.

And, while it is impossible to tell if someone has had hasbara training, it's is painfully obvious who engages in mindless defense of Israel and the holohoax, making them in my parlance de-facto hasbara. Just look at the absolutely mindless, insulting, zero-content posts in this thread, all posted by de-facto hasbara.

The beauty of hasbara is that you don't have to know anything at all about the subject, because the goal is to make rational discussion impossible, and the easiest way to do that is to just generate endless idiotic insults.

And even if the hasbara is knowledgeable, he/she is not bound by the rules of common debate, and can inject mindless idiocy and demeaning insult at will, as is the universal prerogative of the chosen.

And, I don't think anyone would characterize the 'discussion' in this thread as rational and well-reasoned. Which means that the hasbara have accomplished their goal, in spades.

So, for the most part I don't respond to hasbara, e.g. your endless idiotic 'questions', except to make a point of my own. However, if anything interesting does appear, not like, say, Bloble using a flamethrower to disappear bodies, or something that represents a challenge, I try to respond to the best of my ability, just to have a point of interest beyond bashing the hoax.

 

[LemmyCaution]

It is my hope that there are some non-hasbara readers of the thread, but I believe there are very few if any.

Address the argument, not the arguer.

it's is painfully obvious who engages in mindless defense of Israel and the holohoax, making them in my parlance de-facto hasbara.

"It's is" not - and I have not once, for example, made a post in this forum "defending Israel."

Just look at the absolutely mindless, insulting, zero-content posts in this thread, all posted by de-facto hasbara.

You just called yourself a de-facto hasbara.

The beauty of hasbara is that you don't have to know anything at all about the subject, because the goal is to make rational discussion impossible, and the easiest way to do that is to just generate endless idiotic insults.

You just wrote for the 2nd time that you engage in hasbara. You're not making any sense, Saggy.

I don't think anyone would characterize the 'discussion' in this thread as rational and well-reasoned.

Not your posts, true.

Which means that the hasbara have accomplished their goal, in spades.

Again you do it!

Bloble

Friend of Hilter's?

using a flamethrower to disappear bodies, or something that represents a challenge, I try to respond to the best of my ability, just to have a point of interest beyond bashing the hoax.

You ignored the evidence cited in favor of baseless incredulity and childish insults about "hasbaras."

 

[Saggy]

"It's is" not - and I have not once, for example, made a post in this forum "defending Israel."

Your every post in this thread defends the preposterous and degenerate lies of the holohoax, which is the basis of Israel's existence. Your every post defends Israel and attacks Israel's critics.

But, of course, it ain't about you, and it ain't about me. So, I should follow my usual rule and not respond to idiotic or ad hominem posts. When I do, you win. So, I'll refrain for a while.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Your every post in this thread defends the preposterous and degenerate lies of the holohoax, which is the basis of Israel's existence. Your every post defends Israel and attacks Israel's critics.

But, of course, it ain't about you, and it ain't about me. So, I should follow my usual rule and not respond to idiotic or ad hominem posts. When I do, you win. So, I'll refrain for a while.

You do need to take a break, you keep digging your hole deeper.

I will let others, who know about Israel more than I do, reply to the rest - except to say that of course you can't cite a single post of mine here, or in other forums, defending Israel. When I post about the Holocaust I think about history, not the present. It's as simple as that.

 

[Dash80]

Your every post in this thread defends the preposterous and degenerate lies of the holohoax, which is the basis of Israel's existence. Your every post defends Israel and attacks Israel's critics.

But, of course, it ain't about you, and it ain't about me. So, I should follow my usual rule and not respond to idiotic or ad hominem posts. When I do, you win. So, I'll refrain for a while.

I defend historical fact, and I defend the victims of Nazi crimes, Jewish and non-Jewish.

Two of my own relatives were murdered by the Nazis, neither of whom were Jewish.

 

[Loss Leader]

but does document the fact that prisoners at Auschwtiz were given uniforms including shoes and had their heads shaved.

Aw, how nice of the murderers.

 

[Jeffk 1970]

It is my hope that there are some non-hasbara readers of the thread, but I believe there are very few if any.

You can always talk to me, Saggy. I'm not a hasbro.

And, while it is impossible to tell if someone has had hasbara training, it's is painfully obvious who engages in mindless defense of Israel and the holohoax, making them in my parlance de-facto hasbara. Just look at the absolutely mindless, insulting, zero-content posts in this thread, all posted by de-facto hasbara.

I was actually looking more at you when I think "mindless, insulting, zero-content" posts in this thread.

The beauty of hasbara is that you don't have to know anything at all about the subject,

I actually think of deniers. It's obvious that most of you know nothing about the subject.

And even if the hasbara is knowledgeable, he/she is not bound by the rules of common debate, and can inject mindless idiocy and demeaning insult at will, as is the universal prerogative of the chosen.

"Chosen?"

I think I'm already bored.

Saggy, you essentially ignore anything that we show you. Your response is it stick your fingers in your ears and plow on mindlessly, like some sort of denier tank. Frankly I'd drop the whole thing but I'm fascinated by the BS you come up with. It also encourages me to update my list:

http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=27156&start=880

If you honestly want a discussion we can have one but you actually need to pay attention.

 

[LemmyCaution]

No thread about the hoax is complete without sob stories. The sob stories of the usually Jewish victims of the Nazis is one of the extraordinary features of the extended holohoax - i.e. the Nazis are the embodiment of evil.

I remember seeing an Anne Frank exhibit once, and even then, knowing nothing of the hoax, I thought, what about the Palestinian children killed in their homeland, even as this exhibit is on display, by Jews. It was a slightly sickening feeling.

Even now, at my kids school, they give out an Anne Frank 'humanitarian award' every year to the student who does such and such. I think I'll pay someone to distribute this photo at the ceremony ...

Jews watch and cheer as phosphorous weapons are used on defenseless Palestinians

< snip >

You are - and proud of it - ignorant about the history of the Third Reich, WWII, and Nazi crimes and your point of view is shaped by an anti-Semitic agenda, not familiarity with the wide range of sources for the Holocaust. Frankly, what the Nazis did is a matter of evidence - not views about Israel and the oppression of Palestinians. Your anti-Semitism is so thorough that you read a post discussing non-Jewish victims of the Nazis as a sob story of the usually Jewish victims.

 

[Jeffk 1970]

but does document the fact that prisoners at Auschwtiz were given uniforms including shoes and had their heads shaved.

OK. Was this a revelation for you?