Merged General Holocaust denial discussion Part IV

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Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Loss Leader
 
This is the 3rd day of the challenge to the hoaxers to present physical evidence of the holohoax. So far nothing save the cans of Zyklon, and the door to the hoax gas chamber, but hey, I presented that evidence. And, I'm going to continue helping you out.

But first, let's see some examples of conflict from the more distant past .... to find physical artifacts you go to a museum, so we can find a helmet from the Peloponnesian war, circa 400 bc, in the British museum ...

[IMGW=400]https://i.imgur.com/HspNNO3.jpg[/IMGW]

To see a musket from the US civil war 160 years ago we go to the VMI museum ...

[IMGW=400]https://i.imgur.com/McGV2e4.jpg[/IMGW]

So, where do we find physical artifacts of the holohoax, circa 1945? Why the USHMM of course .....
and what do we find? Shoes !

[IMGW=400]https://i.imgur.com/Ft6i29w.jpg[/IMGW]

which also has a poem, not found in the other museums ...

images


But not just any shoes ...

"We are the shoes, we are the last witnesses.

We are shoes from grandchildren and grandfathers

From Prague, Paris and Amsterdam,

And because we are only made of fabric and leather

And not of blood and flesh,

Each one of us avoided the hellfire."
 
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Saggy said:
This is the 3rd day of the challenge to the hoaxers to present physical evidence of the holohoax. So far nothing save the cans of Zyklon, and the door to the hoax gas chamber. . . .
Click to expand...
Still making dishonest posts, I see. Sigh. From yesterday:
LemmyCaution said:
How many times, O Lord, how many times?

There's a lot more than photos, as you've been schooled repeatedly, but if it's photos you want to see again, here you go:
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2009/03/photographic-documentation-of-nazi.html
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2010/10/mass-graves-and-dead-bodies.html
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.de/2016/04/photographic-evidence-of-exhumed.html
http://kehilalinks.jewishgen.org/lodz/gfhphoto.htm
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=25822&p=521792#p521792
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.de/2008/10/photographic-evidence-of-mass-shootings_10.html
http://www.skepticforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=24383
http://sobibor.info.pl/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Report-by-Y.Haimi-Autumn-2013.pdf
http://blogs.staffs.ac.uk/archaeolo...urvey-at-treblinka-ii-the-extermination-camp/

IIRC all this material has been linked to and/or posted in one of our 4 threads previously.
Click to expand...
 
also these - where you dodged discussion of physical evidence when the discussion didn't go your way:

4. how corpses can be burned . . .
8. physical evidence for the murder of Jews at Chełmno . . .
12. mass graves at Žagare and "Ilokiai" in Lithuania . . .
15. follow-up questions about Babi Yar
 
Saggy said:
This is the 3rd day of the challenge to the hoaxers to present physical evidence of the holohoax. So far nothing save the cans of Zyklon, and the door to the hoax gas chamber, but hey, I presented that evidence. And, I'm going to continue helping you out.

But first, let's see some examples of conflict from the more distant past .... to find physical artifacts you go to a museum, so we can find a helmet from the Peloponnesian war, circa 400 bc, in the British museum ...

[IMGW=400]https://i.imgur.com/HspNNO3.jpg[/IMGW]

To see a musket from the US civil war 160 years ago we go to the VMI museum ...

[IMGW=400]https://i.imgur.com/McGV2e4.jpg[/IMGW]

So, where do we find physical artifacts of the holohoax, circa 1945? Why the USHMM of course .....
and what do we find? Shoes !

[IMGW=400]https://i.imgur.com/Ft6i29w.jpg[/IMGW]

which also has a poem, not found in the other museums ...

[qimg]https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSTQrMM06zJSsNXSmWP31-22_fv7ZNyBVRI8uXRUkpKIyKzFwn6[/qimg]

But not just any shoes ...

"We are the shoes, we are the last witnesses.

We are shoes from grandchildren and grandfathers

From Prague, Paris and Amsterdam,

And because we are only made of fabric and leather

And not of blood and flesh,

Each one of us avoided the hellfire."
Click to expand...

Chelmno:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/holocaustcontroversies/archaeological-research-in-the-grounds-of-the-che--t1771.html
 
LemmyCaution said:
Still making dishonest posts, I see. Sigh. From yesterday:
Click to expand...

You at least seem to understand the question, but .... a list of links won't do.

I could ask ..... prove the holocaust happened, and you could respond ...

see.. www.ushmm.org

but that ain't gonna get it.

If you can present and discuss some element of physical evidence, do so.

If you can present one credible Jewish eyewitness and discuss their testimony, along with corroborating testimony, and physical or documentary evidence that supports their testimony do so.

If you can name one person who was gassed at Auschwitz and present the evidence for it, do so.

Otherwise the challenge is unanswered.
 
I repeat my challenge to you for your survival hoax. Witnesses or evidence of the survival of millions of Jews, Gays, Handicapped, Roma and Political Opponents who disappeared under the National Socialist Government in Germany 1933 - 1945 and in Occupied Europe 1939 - 1945. If you can't produce evidence or witnesses then Saggy, by your own logic (I use the word loosely of course) then there were no survivors and you and your ilk are perpetrating a huge hoax on the rest of us. This is how this works, isn't it?
 
Saggy said:
This is the 3rd day of the challenge to the hoaxers to present physical evidence of the holohoax. So far nothing save the cans of Zyklon, and the door to the hoax gas chamber, but hey, I presented that evidence. And, I'm going to continue helping you out.
Click to expand...

How about hair?
https://inspireinvolveimprove.files.wordpress.com/2012/04/dscn3772.jpg

The Poles tested some of that hair after the war and found cyanide:
https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/holocaustcontroversies/the-cracow-report-of-1945-t1894.html

They also tested other items from Krema II and found cyanide on them as well.

Scroll down to get the English translation, Saggy.

Yeah, I know, the Germans fumigated the hair to get rid of lice....except that there is no evidence that the hair was fumigated. Per SK statements the hair was hung above the ovens to dry. At Auschwitz the SK's cut the hair from the corpses after gassing operations. Processing would take care of eggs and lice desert their hosts when they no longer have a supply of blood.

Hey, Saggy? You dodged my above comment, just like I knew you would. I'll take your silence on this as evidence you have no evidence of your own, just like every denier I meet. You can't prove your alternate theory so you ignore it.

Thanks for confirming to me you don't have a clue.
 
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Saggy said:
You at least seem to understand the question, but .... a list of links won't do.

I could ask ..... prove the holocaust happened, and you could respond ...

see.. www.ushmm.org

but that ain't gonna get it.

If you can present and discuss some element of physical evidence, do so.

If you can present one credible Jewish eyewitness and discuss their testimony, along with corroborating testimony, and physical or documentary evidence that supports their testimony do so.

If you can name one person who was gassed at Auschwitz and present the evidence for it, do so.

Otherwise the challenge is unanswered.
Click to expand...
Saggy, you wrote: "we have a standing challenge for the hoaxers - to post any example, a photo would be nice, of physical evidence."

So guess what I did?

Within the rules of the forum - recall you got slapped on this just today - I posted links to many photographs of physical evidence of the genocide. Unlike your example of a generic link to USHMM, which you try pretending is what I gave you, the links I posted take you to precisely what you asked for: many photos of physical evidence for mass murder. If you are truly interested, you should in fact be glad for those links, as they give you more than what you requested. If you have something to say about these cases, nothing is stopping you - so I can only assume you are rattled by the many examples and really don't know how to deal with them.

Also, as you know, weeks ago I posted about various forms physical evidence of mass murder at Chełmno: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11944476&postcount=2895. You decided not to discuss this evidence when you were shown by both LeoMajor and me not to have a clue about Chełmno and this work. Today Dash80 re-posted about the Łucja Pawlicka-Nowak study. You ignored his post.

For some odd reason you like posting images - but won't accept my responding to your request for images with, er, images.

So please stop dodging.

Btw you forgot to reply with answers to my questions about the forging of documents on both sides of the Iron curtain, torture of the Einsatzgruppen trial defendants, and witnesses Krzepicki and Rabinowicz. As you know, these last two, Krzepicki and Rabinowicz, were offered many weeks ago in reply to you claim that all witnesses to the mass murder of Jews are liars - yet you refuse to discuss what's been presented about their testimonies. I know why.

You seem to have decided on mind-numbing and tedious repetition and excruciatingly transparent dodging as your key strategies.
 
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Saggy said:
Shoes are not a weapon of war.
Click to expand...
Which doesn't mean they are not evidence of mass murder. You've added non sequiturs to you repertoire, goodie.

We are not discussing a war fought between contesting militaries - we are discussing genocide, a mass murder carried out against civilian populations during a war. Oftentimes civilians wear shoes. When civilians are killed, they no longer need their shoes - so they may be left behind for the killers.

This is analogous to the personal effects of civilian victims found on the grounds of the Chełmno execution assembly point. “On 29 May 1942 less than a third (31.7 percent) of the Western European Jews remained” in Łódź ghetto, according to Trunk. “. . . over 50 percent were sent directly to death at Chelmno.” These were Jews brought to Chełmno from Germany, the Protectorate and other parts of central Europe. Some of thee abandoned personal effects point to the locations from which the victims originated, providing confirmation of the fate of central and western European Jews brought first to Łódź ghetto, then starting in May 1942 to Chełmno: the excavations found objects brought to the mansion by Reich Jews as they were processed there for murder in a gassing van, and discarded near the granary and former sorting tent. This physical evidence fits with other evidence showing that these Jews - from Germany, Austria and the Protectorate; also even Luxembourg - were brought not to the White Sea or chimerical settlements in Unicornland but to Chełmno. There's no trace of them after their presence at Chełmno.

According to the Museum of the former Extermination Camp in Chełmno-on-Ner, objects brought to the mansion by Reich Jews as they were processed there for gassing vans, and discarded near the granary and former sorting tent, were found in excavations of refuse pits on the grounds of the complex:
The Museum considered which research method should be applied to explore the surface of the park and gardens covering 3 hectares. The terrain was rough, overgrown at its edges, partly covered with concrete slabs and barracks. For fear of overlooking tiny traces illegible in small-drill cross-sections, the Museum gave up the idea of applying drillings and chose the method of putting up probing nets in a checked pattern all over the terrain. Additionally, before the probes were set up, all the data gathered from the testimonies by the witnesses and the accounts by the elder Chelmno residents and its vicinity had been analyzed. This resulted in discovering 10 waste pits. The pits, in which objects that were useless for the murderers were buried both in the first and second phase of the center operation, constitute an important and characteristic element of its history. During the exploration of the pits, the Museum gathered significant amounts of historical material; unfortunately, the pits themselves - such significant evidence in situ - were lost irretrievably. The Museum decided to consider the possibility of leaving one of them untouched, as an element of a natural exposition. For this reason the pit was only partly explored so that the visitor can notice its shape, depth, and contents. The contents of the pits provided incredibly rich exploration material, which allows to identify the victims more precisely. On its basis the Museum can, among others, link them to specific transports and periods of the center operation. Some of them can be linked to the craftsmen working in the granary during the second phase of the center operation. The pits were mostly localized in the second research season in 1998 when the whole territory of the former estate was cut up by probing excavations. The earth from all the pits was washed and sifted, which allowed to retrieve even very small objects. Some of them are burned. . . .

c. Research in the palace and park grounds.

Waste pits. . . .

Pit no. 4. . . . A few objects may be linked to the German and Austrian Jews; these are: 2 iron crosses from the period of WW I, a brass 6-square top for playing "drejdl" with the inscriptions in Yiddish (Arab letters), a silver thimble with the German inscription "D.H. Aus Freundschaft", three glass medallions made in a mold - a blue one with the image of Schiller, yellow and white with Frederick the Great, a badge with the inscription "Berlin", a badge of the Nurses Association from Wiesbaden (Jewish nurses; in the center of the badge there is the Star of David), and a glass vial after a medicine against insect bites and frostbite manufactured by Aachen. Among numerous findings from the pit, we should also pay special attention to medicine boxes, fragments of syringes and needles, a fragment of a probably promotional mirror from Vienna, a fragment of a faience dish with the sign of C. Freudenreich's factory in Koło, the German name of the town - "Wartbrücken" - and the data "1942", small toys for children in the shape of animal figurines. The tools found included: textile magnifying glasses, jeweler's, shoemaker's, and tailor's tools. . . .

Pit No. 7 . . . Cohesion of the layers allowed to leave a 0.8 meter-wide witness dividing the pit into two parts. Significant amounts of objects have been found in it. Some of them had probably belonged to German Jews, which fact is indicated by the nature of the finds: an iron cross for participation in World War I, a commemorative badge in the shape of a tombstone from Wrocław, with an inscription in German localizing the Wrocław cemetery and a grave of a person buried on March 27, 1906 on one side, and an inscription in Yiddish referring to a dead mother, Masza Grosberg, on the other. . . . Apart from the mentioned objects we also retrieved cosmetics and medications boxes with inscriptions in German, fragments of jewelry made of metal, silver, and gold, a comb manufactured in Hamburg, etc.

Jews from Western Europe in the period from May 4 to 15, 1942, were brought to Chełmno in 12 transports (10,498 people), another group (about 1,400 people) got to Chełmno in the period from September 3 to 12, 1942. In the pit we also discovered significant amounts of medicine boxes, boxes for doctor's stamps, which may support the hypothesis linking the contents of the pit to the Jews from the West, as there were over 60 physicians, pharmacists, and dentists among them.
Click to expand...
http://www.muzeum.com.pl/en/chelmno.htm

Like the shoes you try using as a sick joke, these personal belongings which victims "left behind" at Chełmno - taken with deportation records, testimonies, and other sources (including archaeological study of the mass graves in the forest) - are evidence for the mass murder of their owners.
 
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Saggy said:
Shoes are not a weapon of war.
Click to expand...


A helmet isn't a weapon, either. And it doesn't have to be worn in a war. But an ancient helmet shows that at least there was a soldier there. And shoes show that there were people there - civilians. And they left for some undiscovered country without taking their shoes.
 
Loss Leader said:
A helmet isn't a weapon, either. And it doesn't have to be worn in a war. But an ancient helmet shows that at least there was a soldier there. And shoes show that there were people there - civilians. And they left for some undiscovered country without taking their shoes.
Click to expand...
Shoes not worn in Unicornville?
 
Loss Leader said:
A helmet isn't a weapon, either. And it doesn't have to be worn in a war. But an ancient helmet shows that at least there was a soldier there. And shoes show that there were people there - civilians. And they left for some undiscovered country without taking their shoes.
Click to expand...

You can quickly review

The Auschwitz Album is the only surviving visual evidence of the process leading to the mass murder at Auschwitz-Birkenau.

which of course includes not one iota of 'visual evidence of the process leading to mass murder', but does document the fact that prisoners at Auschwtiz were given uniforms including shoes and had their heads shaved.
 
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