Merged US may close Cuba Embassy over 'health attacks'

[JJM 777]

My theory is a Conspiracy Theory, sort of.

Anti-Cuban political forces in USA were outraged when Obama opened an embassy in Cuba. They want the relations to cool down. They could simply have Donald Trump close the embassy without any reason whatsoever. Just because blah blah. But someone wants a "reason". Then a reason is created. Usually US-fabricated "reasons" to punish any country are very different in nature. Why would they resort to a story as bizarre as this, Idunno. But nevertheless, my theory is that CIA is either behind the fake story, or with some technology behind the symptoms. Motive: To get a pretext for closing down the embassy, which the dark smiling guy unfortunately opened. Possible techniques: Find staff that have weird health disorders, and send them to Cuba. Or ask CIA agents to describe weird health disorders, which they actually don't have, it is just stories that their superiors told them to tell, as a service to their country. Or the least likely explanation: CIA has a method of producing these effects, without anyone else being able to detect the method. Mix small blue pills in the morning coffee of the staff?

 

[abaddon]

sick building syndrome.

 

[dann]

sick building syndrome.

It doesn't seem to fit the symptoms: "Most of the complainants report relief soon after leaving the building." Also not centered on the bed.


Has the gender of the afflicted been mentioned anywhere?

An evolutionary psychology explanation for conversion disorder is that the symptoms may have been evolutionarily advantageous during warfare. A non-combatant with these symptoms signals non-verbally, possibly to someone speaking a different language, that she or he is not dangerous as a combatant and also may be carrying some form of dangerous infectious disease. This can explain that conversion disorder may develop following a threatening situation, that there may be a group effect with many people simultaneously developing similar symptoms (as in mass psychogenic illness), and the gender difference in prevalence.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conversion_disorder#History

 

[dann]

My theory is a Conspiracy Theory, sort of.

Yes, it is!
Motive? Yes, definitely1), but apart from that …

1) I mean, who wouldn't object to this?

During its first decade in power, the Castro government introduced a wide range of progressive social reforms. Laws were introduced to provide equality for black Cubans and greater rights for women, while there were attempts to improve communications, medical facilities, health, housing, and education. In addition, there were touring cinemas, art exhibitions, concerts, and theatres. By the end of the 1960s, all Cuban children were receiving some education (compared with less than half before 1959), unemployment and corruption were reduced, and great improvements were made in hygiene and sanitation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Revolution#Reforms_and_nationalization

 

[Stacko]

Mass psychogenic illness, maybe?

Mass psychogenic illness (MPI), also called mass sociogenic illness or just sociogenic illness,[1] is "the rapid spread of illness signs and symptoms affecting members of a cohesive group, originating from a nervous system disturbance involving excitation, loss, or alteration of function, whereby physical complaints that are exhibited unconsciously have no corresponding organic" cause.[2] MPI is distinct from other collective delusions, also included under the blanket terms of mass hysteria, in that MPI causes symptoms of disease, though there is no organic cause.

There is a clear preponderance of female victims.[1] The DSM-IV-TR does not have specific diagnosis for this condition but the text describing conversion disorder states that "In 'epidemic hysteria', shared symptoms develop in a circumscribed group of people following 'exposure' to a common precipitant."

 

[Sherkeu]

Or a reported hearing loss after they've heard all their colleagues talking about hearing loss.

Exactly. How does a doctor verify 'hearing loss' independent of the patients reporting?

Normal hearing tests use tones where the patient raises their hand when they can hear it. To really determine it, they'd have to look at how the brain itself responds to sound, independent of what the person says they can/cannot hear.

 

[Bob001]

Or a reported hearing loss after they've heard all their colleagues talking about hearing loss.

Why is there this desperate need to discredit reports by the employees' own union? There are U.S. embassies in almost every country in the world, including numerous hellholes and multiple war zones. Havana would be an easy gig, combining the prestige of opening an important new embassy with the comfort of a tropical island and the close proximity to home. Staffers can fly back to the U.S. every weekend if they feel like it. Why would they imagine something like this in Cuba, but not Iraq, Afghanistan, Zimbabwe, Angola, Venezuela, etc., etc.?

And at least one Canadian diplomat reported similar symptoms. What's his/her motive?

 

[dann]

Exactly. How does a doctor verify 'hearing loss' independent of the patients reporting?

Normal hearing tests use tones where the patient raises their hand when they can hear it. To really determine it, they'd have to look at how the brain itself responds to sound, independent of what the person says they can/cannot hear.

I'm not so sure. I think that it would take a lot of training to be able to fake loss of hearing. When I was tested as part of conscription by the Danish army back in the mid 1980s (when I wasn't nearly as hard of hearing as I am now: I was deemed fully able to serve!), they seemed to be convinced that I wasn't faking my deficient hearing even though I didn't try to hide the fact that I didn't want to join the army under any circumstances.

 

[dann]

Why would they imagine something like this in Cuba, but not Iraq, Afghanistan, Zimbabwe, Angola, Venezuela, etc., etc.?

Mass hysteria is almost always limited to "affecting members of a cohesive group" (Stacko's quotation above)

And at least one Canadian diplomat reported similar symptoms. What's his/her motive?

How similar? Loss of hearing? Remember: Me too! But I don't think that the Cubans had anything to do with it in my case.

 

[Sherkeu]

Mass psychogenic illness, maybe?

That link led me to this: Hysterical Contagion which seems to fit the events.

In social psychology, hysterical contagion occurs when people in a group show signs of a physical problem or illness, when in reality there are psychological and social forces at work.
Hysterical contagion is a strong form of emotional contagion, which describes the copycat effect of imitative behaviour based on the power of suggestion and word of mouth influence.
In 1977 Frieda L. Gehlen offered a revised theory of hysterical contagion that argues that what is actually contagious is the belief that showing certain characteristics will "entitle one to the secondary benefits of the sick role."[1] It may be an unconscious decision on the part of the individual.

So, are there secondary benefits here? Yes!
In addition to the caring attention, there is a transfer back to the US, time off, potential disability checks, and even just the importance of being 'chosen'. Any others you can think of?

Undoubtedly, some of those 'affected' are simply opportunists. (even if the attacks had merit!)

 

[dann]

Mass psychogenic illness, maybe?
"There is a clear preponderance of female victims."

However, remember the case of 600 men (or maybe only 119) in San Diego, 1988.

 

[dann]

That link led me to this: So, are there secondary benefits here? Yes!

That would depend very much on your career plans and ambitions!

 

[Sherkeu]

Why is there this desperate need to discredit reports by the employees' own union? There are U.S. embassies in almost every country in the world, including numerous hellholes and multiple war zones. Havana would be an easy gig, combining the prestige of opening an important new embassy with the comfort of a tropical island and the close proximity to home. Staffers can fly back to the U.S. every weekend if they feel like it. Why would they imagine something like this in Cuba, but not Iraq, Afghanistan, Zimbabwe, Angola, Venezuela, etc., etc.?

And at least one Canadian diplomat reported similar symptoms. What's his/her motive?

It could have happened in any embassy where such an attack seemed plausible. If the first reports are taken seriously, the others follow.
The rest are more like a placebo effect when the phenomena is given some credibility.

 

[Sherkeu]

That would depend very much on your career plans and ambitions!

True. I posted yesterday "They will find the source to be a lower level staffer with no prospects for advancement. "

The top diplomats, such as the Ambassador, are unlikely to be one of the affected.

That's my prediction anyway!!

 

[Bob001]

So, are there secondary benefits here? Yes!
In addition to the caring attention, there is a transfer back to the US, time off, potential disability checks, and even just the importance of being 'chosen'. Any others you can think of?

Undoubtedly, some of those 'affected' are simply opportunists. (even if the attacks had merit!)

People join the Foreign Service -- and getting in isn't easy -- because they want to do the work. It's a prestigious job, and the people sent to Havana would be among the most experienced in the State Dept. Nobody got there by accident. Anybody who wants to get out can find a better job -- or at least an easier job -- elsewhere in government or private industry pretty much any day of any week.

And if all these people are faking or imagining their symptoms for selfish motives, why would doctors and senior bosses, including the Secretary of State and the President, support them and even consider changing U.S. policy because of them?
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/17/us/politics/tillerson-cuba-embassy.html
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/top-u-s-security-official-targeted-in-cuba-embassy-health-attacks/
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/some-u...rious-health-conditions-medical-records-show/
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/11/world/americas/cuba-united-states-embassy-diplomats-illness.html

 

[Sherkeu]

Psychology Today medical sociologist weighs in:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, and so far, the American government has failed to provide any concrete evidence. []
Based on the scant information that has been disclosed thus far, it is very possible that the symptoms are psychogenic in nature, as most of the complaints are headaches and dizziness. The claims do not make logical sense. [] There have been many documented cases in the mass hysteria literature of so-called ‘sick buildings’ that have supposedly caused outbreaks of illness, that turn out to be psychological. The human mind can play tricks on itself, especially in the wake of rumors and conspiracy claims.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

The "news media" isn't pulling stuff out of thin air. Foreign Service officers belong to a professional association/union, and that group sounded the first alarms. Injuries like hearing loss and brain injury can be measured objectively. And there's some evidence that they were injured in their homes, not in the office. At least one Canadian diplomat was also affected.
https://www.voanews.com/a/us-diplomats-injured-cuba/4012333.html
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/01/politics/foreign-service-cuba-sonic-attacks/index.html

There's no reason to think that this isn't real. Who's responsible is a different question.

There are plenty of reasons to think this is hysteria. Hysteria is a real thing and having experience with it I can tell you the evidence in this case has not yet been confirmed beyond people believing something is wrong with them.

Hysteria need not only occur to people in a single location. The mold hysteria went on in multiple buildings.

Show me the medical reports documenting consistent significant clinical findings in these people and I'll reassess my position.

I've gone through this more than once. In one case a lot of employees complained of a rash, scratchy throats and headaches in one hospital department. So we started an investigation. Not one person had an actual rash. People would point to normal skin and say they saw a rash. No one had actual throat inflammation. People do that, hysteria is a real phenomena.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

That's true; but in this instance there's the added note that the sound returned when they stepped back within the immediate area of their beds.

There's also the matter of some medically-verifiable long term symptoms the alleged victims have suffered. The actual, apparently permanent, hearing degradation some of them have experienced may typically accompany tinnitus (I don't know); but it was reported that some of the alleged victims, including one of the Canadians, were diagnosed with mild traumatic brain injury (i.e., concussions, or something that presented like a concussion). I don't think tinnitus could do that a person.

It's my understanding, though, that some things which are capable of causing concussions, can also cause tinnitus.

Link to these medical reports?

As for hearing loss, you'd have to rule out aging and other causes of tinnitus.

I understand how real this sounds to people. The reporters were convinced and wrote the articles with that conviction. That doesn't make it real.

I'm sticking with 1% chance this is more than hysteria.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Probably not, but a hearing test could be a routine part of an employment physical. And the issue for many of these people is hearing loss.

No it isn't. It depends on what the medical clearance is for. Fire fighters get hearing tests because they are exposed to loud noise. Nurses don't. I don't know why a diplomat would need a hearing test.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Why is there this desperate need to discredit reports by the employees' own union? ...

Well that's a loaded assumption.

I don't have a desperate need, I have medical and occupational health experience and knowledge.

You have news reports and people who believe they have symptoms.