Merged Things that Bubba finds interesting or newsworthy

Bubba said:
Which of the world's known governments (did or would do) today or historically is/was likely to be sending, or have sent, their forces out across the world looking for old stuff whether on land (like antartica) or underwater?

Such as govt forces looking for old stuff mythical or not across world.

As seen in "Raiders of the Lost Ark", for example.

What do historians have to share on this?
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I imagine it would be less governments and more wealthy individuals and organizations with agendas involved in any sort of hunt for mythical stuff, such as churches looking for proof of the Bible or treasure hunters seeking Black Beard's loot. Most governments are more likely to sponsor archeological expeditions related to credible academics endeavors.

In the case of governments sponsoring odd archeology, it's almost always related to proving a specific ideological point in order to propagate a political agenda, such as idolizing Aryans for the Nazis or Vlad in Romania. Usually, this agenda is pretty clearly apparent, so "findings" are usually taken with a grain of salt by the rest of the world.
 
simonxlong said:
I imagine it would be less governments and more wealthy individuals and organizations with agendas involved in any sort of hunt for mythical stuff, such as churches looking for proof of the Bible or treasure hunters seeking Black Beard's loot. Most governments are more likely to sponsor archeological expeditions related to credible academics endeavors.

In the case of governments sponsoring odd archeology, it's almost always related to proving a specific ideological point in order to propagate a political agenda, such as idolizing Aryans for the Nazis or Vlad in Romania. Usually, this agenda is pretty clearly apparent, so "findings" are usually taken with a grain of salt by the rest of the world.
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Exactly. That is why I included past tense in the topic. I'd guess superstitious connected royals extended or even attempted to extend their pet beliefs/theories this way in days past.
 
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Well, it depends on what level of government intervention do you require before calling it government sponsored. A lot of rather neutral archaeology is done by universities that just happen to be government funded. Or get a grant from some government agency, just because archaeology doesn't exactly turn a profit.

The USA quite routinely gives such federal grants to public colleges, and I'm not aware of any ideology requirements. Not every penny that comes from a government has to come with strings attached a la Himmler.
 
Bubba said:
Exactly. That is why I included past tense in the topic. I'd guess superstitious connected royals extended or even attempted to extend their pet beliefs/theories this way in days past.
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Empress Helena:
Constantine appointed his mother Helena as Augusta Imperatrix, and gave her unlimited access to the imperial treasury in order to locate the relics of Judeo-Christian tradition.
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Does that count? I don't see a fundamental difference between "superstition" and "religion".

ETA: Both in the RCC and in the Greek Orthodox Church, there has been a lively trade in relics. But mostly, people didn't go look for them, but was it simply a case of a counterfeiter putting them up for sale - or an earlier sucker who had bought it - and not a case of someone going to actually dig for them. And of course, all relics of Jesus, the apostles and the many early, historically-tenuous saints, are counterfeits. Not to mention such relics as "the skull of Jesus when he was a child".
 
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Allegedly, Czar Nicholas II sent out an expedition to Mount Ararat in 1916 to search for Noah's Ark. (link)
 
Foolmewunz said:
That [formerly respectable] Scot archaeologist was horrible at that, and he also employed the ever-popular History Channel/Discovery Channel dodge... "Unfortunately our flights were scheduled for departure but we hope that further exploration will tell us in the future if this was really the Missing Dental Floss Dispenser Of The Last Supper". He did a bunch like that and with "well, the dental floss wasn't here, but there are those crosses in the wall and that article we read in Reader's Digest, so the search will continue...."
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:big:
 
In Raiders, the Nazis were looking for a magical artifact to fuel their war effort, which of course requires belief that such an artifact actually exists. That's a tall order for any government to sustain for a long period of time unless there is a direct political motivation to do so. The case of Helena that ddt brought up is a prime example. She was going to find what she was looking for no matter what, even if she had to forge it. It was about securing Constantine's power base, not about finding some magical artifact.

I think you might find certain monarchs or governments, from time to time, might have sponsored an occasional archeological dig that was of questionable veracity, but I think you would be hard pressed to find many cases of governments actively sponsoring mass archeological endeavors outside of legitimate academic ventures just for the purpose of retrieving "mystical" relics like portrayed in Raiders.
 
simonxlong said:
In Raiders, the Nazis were looking for a magical artifact to fuel their war effort, which of course requires belief that such an artifact actually exists. That's a tall order for any government to sustain for a long period of time unless there is a direct political motivation to do so. The case of Helena that ddt brought up is a prime example. She was going to find what she was looking for no matter what, even if she had to forge it. It was about securing Constantine's power base, not about finding some magical artifact.

I think you might find certain monarchs or governments, from time to time, might have sponsored an occasional archeological dig that was of questionable veracity, but I think you would be hard pressed to find many cases of governments actively sponsoring mass archeological endeavors outside of legitimate academic ventures just for the purpose of retrieving "mystical" relics like portrayed in Raiders.
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The Indian government or their state governments support archaeology that is in support of 'fundamental' Hinduism. In particular evidence in support of the 'Aryan invasion'.

http://archaeologyonline.net/artifacts/india-denial
 
simonxlong said:
In Raiders, the Nazis were looking for a magical artifact to fuel their war effort, which of course requires belief that such an artifact actually exists. That's a tall order for any government to sustain for a long period of time unless there is a direct political motivation to do so.
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Well, I don't know about fuelling the war effort, but in the real world the political motivation was there all right. Just like in Constantine's case his whole claim to power was based on Jesus, in the Nazis case their whole claim to power was based on some woowoo racial superiority and perpetual power struggle between the aryans and the semitics. Plus even just the fact that some pretty high up the food chain, like Himmler, were quite the ideological fanatics, was motivation enough to try to prove that ideology right.

And, as I was saying, most of Ahnenerbe archaeological expeditions WERE motivated by trying to prove their ideology right, rather than actually trying to figure out what had actually happened there. They weren't as much interested in finding what battles had happened between the Romans and the Persians in the middle east, as in "finding" that the semitics were to blame for the downfall of the proper aryan Romans.

So I think that IF there had been a credible clue to the location of the ark -- which is a big IF -- they wouldn't need to believe it's actually magical to want it. Just the fact that it was a major artifact of Judaism, around which they could spin their ideology woowoo tales, would have been very much enough.
 
During the early period of the Nazi regime, they sent archeologists to Nordic countries and areas they intended for Lebensraum. The intent was to establish a rational in the past physical culture for German invasion or "reconquest" and to link German culture with the "Nordic" race. It was all shoddy work conducted to provide evidence for a conclusion that had already been reached. The Italians did similar "research" under Mussolini.

Almost no one outside the two countries bought into it but the point was to support the internal messaging that both countries were populated by a master race.
 
Craig4 said:
During the early period of the Nazi regime, they sent archeologists to Nordic countries and areas they intended for Lebensraum. The intent was to establish a rational in the past physical culture for German invasion or "reconquest" and to link German culture with the "Nordic" race. It was all shoddy work conducted to provide evidence for a conclusion that had already been reached. The Italians did similar "research" under Mussolini.

Almost no one outside the two countries bought into it but the point was to support the internal messaging that both countries were populated by a master race.
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The Nazis went a lot further out then that. They sent expeditions to Tibet to look for Aryan Origins...a pet obsession of Heinrich Himmler.
 
Crimewatch host Jill Dando murdered, was about to expose big names on BBC, show canceled.

and will Trump go after pedophiles in power in US.

Bill Clinton on board pedophile Epstein's orgy plane at least 26 times.

London police confirmed allegations, then investigation stops.

Pedophiles Rule the World

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1GQehNcZZw
 
Bubba said:
Crimewatch host Jill Dando murdered, was about to expose big names on BBC, show canceled.

and will Trump go after pedophiles in power in US.

Bill Clinton on board pedophile Epstein's orgy plane at least 26 times.

London police confirmed allegations, then investigation stops.

Pedophiles Rule the World

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1GQehNcZZw
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Is this intended to inform us, titillate us or scare us?

What's your take? is it true or false?
 
Bubba said:
Crimewatch host Jill Dando murdered, was about to expose big names on BBC, show canceled.
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There is no evidence she was about to expose big names at the BBC, or that anybody at crime watch was investigating it at all (seeing as that is NOT what Crimewatch does).

Operation Yewtree proves that any conspiracy or organisation has not prevented investigation or arrest.

Crime watch was not cancelled, continued for years, as did other BBC shows like Panorama that have exposed sexual predator networks.

Crime watch spawned at least two spin off shows.
 
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