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CaptainHowdy said:
Presumably under a White supremacist state, blacks would be separate.

But White Nationalism isn't the same as White supremacism. Using Israel as our model of how ethnic nationalism without racism works: In a White Nationalist United States, European Christians would enjoy the same rights and responsibilities that Jews enjoy in Israel and non-European Christians would enjoy the same rights and responsibilities that non-Jews enjoy in Israel. Israel is able to preserve the Jewish character of the state without physically separating Jews and non-Jews. We could do the same.
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From this, shall I understand you argue that white nationalists are in need of a homeland to protect them from pogroms and holocausts? (Further, this apparent agreement with addressing the needs of the Jewish people, taking into account how the modern state came about, has logical consequences for other minorities in the US, who would seem to share more parallels in experience with Jews than would white Christians.) But as to your implication that white Christians need protection from growth in other populations, as might Jews in Israel, you seem to forget that there are white Christians in many other places, and the US is by no means legally, or historically, a white homeland, especially not one tied to a single national faith. What's the sudden reach for a security blanket?

By the way, what sort of hybrid monstrosity of scriptural interpretation is a white Christian?
 
Hlafordlaes said:
From this, shall I understand you argue that white nationalists are in need of a homeland to protect them from pogroms and holocausts? (Further, this apparent agreement with addressing the needs of the Jewish people, taking into account how the modern state came about, has logical consequences for other minorities in the US, who would seem to share more parallels in experience with Jews than would white Christians.) But as to your implication that white Christians need protection from growth in other populations, as might Jews in Israel, you seem to forget that there are white Christians in many other places, and the US is by no means legally, or historically, a white homeland, especially not one tied to a single national faith. What's the sudden reach for a security blanket?

By the way, what sort of hybrid monstrosity of scriptural interpretation is a white Christian?
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That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that White Nationalism isn't inherently racist and proving it with the example of Zionism--an ethnic nationalist movement that has been able to establish an ethnostate without oppression or racism.
 
CaptainHowdy said:
Presumably under a White supremacist state, blacks would be separate.

But White Nationalism isn't the same as White supremacism. Using Israel as our model of how ethnic nationalism without racism works: In a White Nationalist United States, European Christians would enjoy the same rights and responsibilities that Jews enjoy in Israel and non-European Christians would enjoy the same rights and responsibilities that non-Jews enjoy in Israel. Israel is able to preserve the Jewish character of the state without physically separating Jews and non-Jews. We could do the same.
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Doesn't quite roll off the tongue as nicely as what the Nazis were chanting when the people you're defending were marching alongside them.
 
CaptainHowdy said:
That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that White Nationalism isn't inherently racist and proving it with the example of Zionism--an ethnic nationalist movement that has been able to establish an ethnostate without oppression or racism.
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Are you saying carving up population groups by the color of their skin is not to your mind racism?
 
CaptainHowdy said:
Presumably under a White supremacist state, blacks would be separate.

But White Nationalism isn't the same as White supremacism. Using Israel as our model of how ethnic nationalism without racism works: In a White Nationalist United States, European Christians would enjoy the same rights and responsibilities that Jews enjoy in Israel and non-European Christians would enjoy the same rights and responsibilities that non-Jews enjoy in Israel. Israel is able to preserve the Jewish character of the state without physically separating Jews and non-Jews. We could do the same.
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Yeah because it's not like there is any racism against non-Jews in Israel......

:covereyes
 
LSSBB said:
Are you saying carving up population groups by the color of their skin is not to your mind racism?
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I've said it before, it's about as convincing as some kids in my class in the late 1980s who said that they "weren't racist, they were racialist, which they thought was an adequate figleaf. They also claimed to be just accepting the "obvious" (i.e. imagined) differences between races and that no race was superior (except whites, for some reason should get first choice of everything - I think that all races had different areas of... expertise and obviously whites "expertise" would be in ruling and administering, so they should make the decisions.

I didn't buy it when I was eleven, and I don't buy it now.
 
LSSBB said:
Are you saying carving up population groups by the color of their skin is not to your mind racism?
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No. I'm saying that White Nationalism and Jewish Nationalism are morally and philosophically equivalent and that neither are racist.
 
"Jewish Nationalism" = A shared Religion, culture, and perhaps language.

"White Nationalism" = A shared Skin tone.
 
CaptainHowdy said:
The same thing "Jewish" stands for in "Jewish Nationalism"
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I suggest you go and read the link I put up previously about the racism, and lot of which is institutional, that is in the Jewish Nationalism system.

You keep trying to compare White Nationalism and Jewish Nationalism in an attempt to claim that White Nationalism isn't racist, but we already know that Jewish Nationalism is racist, extremely. So by comparing the two and continuing to do so all you are doing is validating our point that White Nationalism is racist.
 
PhantomWolf said:
I suggest you go and read the link I put up previously about the racism, and lot of which is institutional, that is in the Jewish Nationalism system.

You keep trying to compare White Nationalism and Jewish Nationalism in an attempt to claim that White Nationalism isn't racist, but we already know that Jewish Nationalism is racist, extremely. So by comparing the two and continuing to do so all you are doing is validating our point that White Nationalism is racist.
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I don't think very many people here agree with you that the state of Israel is extremely racist. I think most people here believe that Israel doesn't always have a stellar human rights record but that there are and have been other countries that are far worse. I think most people say that Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state and that any racism in Israeli society doesn't negate that right. I know that Israelis themselves are critical of their government's human rights record. But I don't see any of them trying to dismantle the Jewish character of the nation or claiming that the root of these injustices are the Zionist ideology.

Do you believe that the racism you see in Israeli society an inevitable function of it's nationalistic character? If Israel is as racist as you seem to believe, does that mean that Zionism should be destroyed the way WN needs to be destroyed? If Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state despite its racist characteristics, why wouldn't a WN state have a right to exist as long as it wasn't more racist than Israel is today?

See I can understand saying that nationalism is racist in and of itself. In that case, Zionism and WN are both wrong. But nobody has even tried to justify Jewish Nationalism while condemning WN.
 
CaptainHowdy said:
I don't think very many people here agree with you that the state of Israel is extremely racist. I think most people here believe that Israel doesn't always have a stellar human rights record but that there are and have been other countries that are far worse. I think most people say that Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state and that any racism in Israeli society doesn't negate that right. I know that Israelis themselves are critical of their government's human rights record. But I don't see any of them trying to dismantle the Jewish character of the nation or claiming that the root of these injustices are the Zionist ideology.

Do you believe that the racism you see in Israeli society an inevitable function of it's nationalistic character? If Israel is as racist as you seem to believe, does that mean that Zionism should be destroyed the way WN needs to be destroyed? If Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state despite its racist characteristics, why wouldn't a WN state have a right to exist as long as it wasn't more racist than Israel is today?

See I can understand saying that nationalism is racist in and of itself. In that case, Zionism and WN are both wrong. But nobody has even tried to justify Jewish Nationalism while condemning WN.
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On this particular board, I don't think you would find many people who thing it makes a lot of sense to have a "Jewish state", except for the fact that the desire to have one was a result of long, and ongoing, persecution of Jews in most, and at various times all, non-Jewish states.

If you could make a similar case for persecution of white people, you might get some people to say that white nationalism makes sense. Until you can do that, I think most of us are just going to think it's another variation on "we hate black people."
 
Meadmaker said:
On this particular board, I don't think you would find many people who thing it makes a lot of sense to have a "Jewish state", except for the fact that the desire to have one was a result of long, and ongoing, persecution of Jews in most, and at various times all, non-Jewish states.

If you could make a similar case for persecution of white people, you might get some people to say that white nationalism makes sense. Until you can do that, I think most of us are just going to think it's another variation on "we hate black people."
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You're missing the point. I'm saying that White Nationalism isn't inherently racist. I'm pointing to Israel as a example of a successful ethnostate that currently exists sans racism to demonstrate that nationalism doesn't have to be racist. How and why the state of Israel came about is irrelevant.
 
Yes, but your point is rubbish. Israel has lots of Arab citizens. It is very far from perfect, but the reason for it being set up is understandable. In many ways, the current regime does seem to be going more towards an apartheid type of regime, but it isn't there yet.

You are proposing something completely different. With no redeeming features.
 
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