quadraginta
Becoming Beth
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And now the negotiations are beginning to get serious:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/30/uk-tells-brussels-negotiators-their-brexit-bill-sums-do-not-add-up
It's difficult to see how this particular circle can be squared.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/30/uk-tells-brussels-negotiators-their-brexit-bill-sums-do-not-add-up
It's difficult to see how this particular circle can be squared.
The usual way, with the UK being revealed to be talking out of its collective fundament - followed by utter capitulation (see "Call me Dave"'s attempts to renegotiate the UK's relationship with the EU prior to the referendum)
The way I see it the only thing UK did thus far is reject everything coming from EU, claiming they won't agree to it.
It didn't end well the last time someone tried it. His name is Tsipras, if you'll recall.
McHrozni
The EU could start by presenting an itemized bill. At the moment they're asking us to agree to pay whatever, still-to-be-announced, sum of money they will eventually ask for.
It's an example of the hopeless bureaucracy of the EU that they're unable to pin down the likely size of the bill to an accuracy of tens of billions of Euros. I can appreciate that the final bill may vary depending on the eventual leaving date - but they should at least be able to define the formula.
Sounds like the usual Brexit "alternative truth" right there.
According to the UK representatives in the negotiations, the EU has presented an itemised bill - as evidenced by the fact the UK delegation think that some of those line items are unjustified. OTOH the UK delegation has apparently presented nothing concrete.
Sounds like another example of Brexit "alternative truth".
The EU may not have publicly published a figure but as the article states there is clearly sufficient detail there for the UK delegation to feel that certain line items are insufficiently justified - which also seems to imply that they think other line items are.
Henri McPhee
Illuminator
That might be literally the reality if the UK simply crashes out of the negotiations, as ceptimus has been hopefully suggesting.
The UK only produces 54% of the food it consumes and imports 27% from the EU. No more Dutch tomatoes for you! They'll turn stale while the trucks stand in line in Dover waiting for the understaffed customs. And of the Dutch and German and Danish pigs you import, half will die from the stress while waiting at customs and the other half declared unfit for consumption at the slaughterhouse due to increased hormone levels.
Etcetera etcetera.
But hey, everything to achieve that Dunkirk spirit? Has Davis already taken steps to design rationing coupons?
In a way I agree with that. The UK imports half its food and now seems to be importing electricity. The UK now no longer seems to make things like consumer electronics.
Theresa May can become the british Lorelei! I always thought the cliffs of Dover need a good story.
Wow. This is so crazy.
The EU position paper on the financial settlement is here:
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sit...tial-principles-financial_settlement_en_2.pdf
It was published a week before the negotiations started. Over 10 weeks ago!
It's been half a year since the British government invoked article 50 and only now they are beginning to actually engage with the issues.
These fantasy stories you make up about the EU may make you feel really smart and superior but reality doesn't go away.
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The EU has presented an outline of what it thinks Britain's "obligations" are, but has not attached a monetary value to them. People will vary as to whether this counts as a "bill" or not.
One of the fundamental issues is whether the UK's bill should be based on gross or net (of rebate) contributions, which IIRC the EU has not taken a final position on.
The UK government starting point, as I understand it, is that almost none of the "obligations" meet the definition of a legal liability under the treaties, but they are prepared to negotiate voluntary contributions. The level of these contributions to be linked to the attractiveness of the post-exit agreements.
The main liability that I understand that the UK has effectively agreed to is the unfunded pension payments for EU staff.
They have, however, attached the information needed to obtain the documents in question, which do attach the monetary value to them. It's not a bill, that's a mischaracterization by the media and picked up by the incompetent British negotiations team. It's negotiating how are British liabilities and rights treated if UK walks away from them after agreeing upon them.
Close, but a more accurate characterization woul be that these obligations are not enforcable and since UK lacks any leverage whatsoever, UK intends to use them in this manner.
The amount includes a fair number of Britons who will spend pensions in UK. I'm sure Brexit press failed to mention that one.
McHrozni
ddt
Mafia Penguin
Breaking news on the BBC website:
ETA: I hope I don't breach the MA by quoting 3 of the 4 sentences of the page...
That's not really a surprise.
Ah yes, "more imaginative". Davis wants to negotiate in cuckoo-lala-land.
ETA: I hope I don't breach the MA by quoting 3 of the 4 sentences of the page...
No total there. For it even to be worth discussing, it needs to have an amount. It could say something like, "If the UK does leave on {date} then the amount payable will be {x billions of Euros}. Should the leaving date be postponed then the amount is likely to increase/decrease by {y millions of Euros per calendar month}"
Breaking news on the BBC website:
That's not really a surprise.
Ah yes, "more imaginative". Davis wants to negotiate in cuckoo-lala-land.
ETA: I hope I don't breach the MA by quoting 3 of the 4 sentences of the page...
The Guardian had live coverage of the press conference. It ended a couple minutes ago. Sounds like some progress has been made.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...lection-says-former-party-chair-politics-live
So crazy...
You want the EU to dictate to the UK. No discussion about the obligations, just a fixed number that is to be payed, or else.
Except you were outraged when you falsely believed the EU was doing that.
No. I want the EU to begin the negotiation by presenting an itemized bill. I already said that so you're being deliberately obtuse. Once an itemized bill is on the table, the negotiators can go through it item by item and agree/disagree/modify each item till a consensus is reached.
...which has been done as far if the UK delegation's reports are to be believed
Meanwhile the UK is doing almost literally no prep.
If that's really the case, you will be able to tell me the amount payable if the UK leaves on the earliest possible date. I've not seen any such hard figure. The figures bandied about seem to range anywhere between about forty billion Euros and a hundred billion. They need to narrow that range a good deal before they can expect us to begin serious negotiation about it....which has been done as far if the UK delegation's reports are to be believed
Meanwhile the UK is doing almost literally no prep.
Archie Gemmill Goal
Banned
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If you agree on the line item and agree on the valuation method then the actual number is irrelevant and a job for the bean counters once the agreement is reached.
No different from buying a business with an allowance for inventory at valuation with an estimated range for example.
Once again, here is the EU position paper:
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sit...tial-principles-financial_settlement_en_2.pdf
It took the UK's governing elite 10 weeks to manage to engage with it, so I do understand that you will take somewhat longer.
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