General Holocaust denial discussion Part III

[Saggy]

Because there is NO SINGLE CREDIBLE WITNESS

Just so. And, Morris Venezia is a good representative of the pathological liars that have become the most prominent witnesses. He is full of preposterous tales which I shall recount in posts to come, and his cousin is the infamous Dario Gabbai, featured in Spielberg's movie, and dissected by Eric Hunt, but we'll get to that later. Venezia has uttered what has got to be the most idiotic, degenerate, absurd line in the whole holohoax ... here we go ...

Stulberg: Were you ever in the gas chamber? Did you see the gas chamber?

Venezia: Of course I was every day over there.

Stulberg: Can you describe to us what it looked like?

Venezia: It’s nothing to describe It was an empty room. You could imagine for three thousand people to go in there. I can tell you that. As soon as the transport train was coming, like I told you, my mother was in lines with the kids and the pregnant women, and so on.

I know there are some diligent scholars of the hoax on this board, and I'm challenging one and all to go through this 4 hour vid to find where he utters the words ... my mother was in lines with the kids and the pregnant women, and so on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-IinMCbdJA

He has joined the ranks of Abraham Bomba, who gave a haircut to his wife and mother (?), sister (?), in the very gas chamber where they were gassed minutes later.

But hey, there's plenty more on Venezia to come.

 

[Saggy]

From PBS ...
Morris does a real sitzkreig

Morris Venezia
Auschwitz prisoner

“The wagon was very packed, one guy was up.
He told us he was German. Who knows? Maybe a convict. And he wanted to sit down. So he told me, ‘I’ve got some cigarettes. Would you let me sit down? So he gave me two or three cigarettes.
I got up and he sit.

“So the cigarettes in 5–10 minutes were gone.
I told him, ‘Get up. Stand up’. He wouldn’t stand up. So, me and a couple of my friends sit on him and about 30 minutes, one hour, he was suffocated and was thrown out of the wagon.
I was happy.

“How did I feel?

“They killed all my family—about 30, 40 people
of my family and I killed one German.
That was nothing.

[Interviewer: It was a murder wasn’t it, you did murder a fellow prisoner?]

“I told you— because he was a German.
I wouldn’t do that to one of ours, but anyway I wanted to be seated, too, because I got tired. too. Why should he live, because he gave me two, three cigarettes?”

 

[Saggy]

Morris and Dario gave haircuts to corpses ... !

"Morris and Dario were taken to a brick building in Birkenau, given huge scissors, which they thought more suitable for shearing sheep than cutting human hair, and led into a room that was packed with naked human bodies. "We couldn't believe it," says Morris. "They looked like sardines in a can. The Kapo who accompanied them started clambering over the bodies, cutting off the women's hair at a frantic rate, demonstrating what he wanted Morris and Dario to do. But when the two of them both tried to cut the hair of the dead women, they were wary of standing on the bodies and moved carefully around them. This angered the Kapo, who beat them with his cane. So they cut more quickly, moving among the corpses, but as Dario stood on the stomach of one dead woman he pushed gas out through her mouth and the body emitted a groaning noise. "Dario was so scared," says Morris, "that he jumped from the top of the dead bodies."

There had been no explanation from the Kapo or the Germans about the nature of the job they were now expected to do, no preparations just immediate immersion in a world of horror. "Unbelievable!" says Morris. "How could I feel? Nobody can imagine what really happened and what the Germans were doing to us." What they did not know at the time was that the authorities at Auschwitz and other concentration camps had been ordered by the SS economic division in August 1942 to collect any human hair longer than about a couple of centimeters. It was to be spun into thread to make "felt socks for the submarine crews and felt hose for railways."


From Laurence Rees' book ... 'Auschwitz - How Mankind Committed the Ultimate Infamy'

Laurence Rees (born 1957) is a British historian. He is a documentary filmmaker and author of several books about atrocities committed by the totalitarian states of the Second World War. He is the former Creative Director of History Programmes for the BBC. His documentaries and books are used as teaching aids in British schools.

 

[Saggy]

Equally amazing as the presposterous prima facie degenerate lies of Venezia and Gabbai is the Shoah web site article on them, written by Dawn Skorczewski, Director of University Writing and Professor of English at Brandeis University. After recounting some of the most idiotic parts of our heros' testimony, she concludes ...

https://sfi.usc.edu/news/2015/10/10140-what-story-two-sonderkommando-interviews-usc-shoah-foundation-archive

"It might be tempting at this point to privilege one of these interviews over the other, or to say that one survivor is more accurate or his story more true. But the value of the thousands of testimonies in the USCSF collection lies in the simple reality of its numbers and the availability of access. To achieve an understanding of the gas chambers at Auschwitz, I urge my students to begin by watching several survivors speaking about the Sonderkommando detail, and to carefully track their viewing experiences. What facts do they learn from each? What else do they glean from the experience? In writing about these two –the “what” of the facts and the “how” of how these facts are conveyed—students learn to recognize the many ways in which knowledge about the Holocaust is conveyed. What is “true” becomes less important than what they can learn about how the many and sometimes competing versions of the truths are told."


So, you'd expect Dawn to be some Lipstadt type hag, lurking the halls of Brandeis, but noooo ....

Let's have a look at her ........ vita :< ...

Awards and Honors
CLUE+ Research Fellowship, VU Amsterdam (2016 - 2018)

Into the Archives: Searching for the Jewish Council of Amsterdam (2016 - 2017)

Norman Foundation Grant (2015)

Ticho Foundation Educational Grant (2015)

Fulbright Scholar: Professor of American Culture (2013 - 2014)

Whiting Foundation Grant (2012)

Newman Fund Grant: the Therapy Tapes of Anne Sexton (2011)

CORST ESSAY PRIZE for INTERDISCIPLINARY WORK IN PSYCHOANALYSIS (2010)

Gondor Award for Contributions to Psychoanalytic Education (2007)

Newman Fund Grant: Psychoanalysis and Teaching (2006)

Scholarship
Skorczewski, Dawn M.. "Anne Sexton's Unlikely Muse." The Muse: Psychoanalytic Explorations of Creative Inspiration. 1st ed. Ed. Adele Tutter. London and NY: Routledge, 2017. 262.

Skorczewski, Dawn M.. "The Emerald Light in the Air: Stories by Donald Antrim.." Rev. of The Emerald Light in the Air, by Donald Antrim. Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association vol. 64 June 2016: 656-659.

Skorczewski, Dawn M.. "A Holocaust Heroine Grows Up." Brandeis Magazine Summer 2015: online.

Skorczewski, Dawn M.. "Talking Around the Holocaust: the Interviewer's Role in the USC Holocaust Testimonies.." Autobiografia. Literatura. Kultura. Media 1. 1 (2016): 33-50.

Skorczewski, Dawn M.. "What is the Story? Two Sonderkommando Interviews in the USC Shoah Foundation Archive." https://sfi.usc.edu/news/2015/10/10...mando-interviews-usc-shoah-foundation-archive this is an internet article. above (2016): <https://sfi.usc.edu/news/2015/10/10140-what-story-two-sonderkommando-interviews-usc-shoah-foundation-archive>.

Skorczewski, Dawn M.. "“Anne Sexton’s Unlikely Muse,”." The Muse: Psychoanalytic Explorations of Creative Inspiration". Ed. Adele Tutter. NY: Routledge, 2016. TBA.

Skorczewski, Dawn M., Edited w Matthew Parfitt. The Happiness Reader. 1 ed. NY: Macmillan, 2015.

Skorczewski, Dawn M.. "Book Review: Beyond Individual and Collective Trauma: Intergenerational Transmission, Psychoanalytic Treatment, and the Dynamics of Forgiveness; Witnessing Witnessing: On the Reception of Holocaust Survivor Testimony." by Dawn Skorczewski. J Am Psychoanal Assoc October 2014 of 62 October 2014: 931-936.

Skorczewski, Dawn M.. "Writing the Holocaust." Rev. of several titles/review article, American Journal of Psychoanalysis 2013

Skorczewski, Dawn M.. "A Double Image?: The Voices of Linda Gray Sexton." Rev. of Half in Love: Surviving the Legacy of Suicide, by Linda Gray Sexton. Psychoanalytic Quarterly 2012

Skorczewski, Dawn M.. An Accident of Hope: the Therapy Tapes of Anne Sexton. NY and London: Routledge, 2012.

Skorczewski, Dawn M.. "From Confession to Testimony: Refiguring Trauma in the Classroom." Compelling Confessions. Ed. Suzanne Diamond. Fairleigh Dickinson Press, 2011

Dawn Skorczewski. "Review, The Very Thought of Education (by Deborah Britzman)." Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association 2010: 7.

Skorczewski, Dawn M.. ""You, I we created the poet": Anne Sexton's Therapy Tapes, November 1963." Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association (2010).

Skorczewski, Dawn M.. "Analyst as Teacher/Teacher as Analyst: A Confusion of Tongues?." Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association (2008): 30.

Skorczewski, Dawn. Teaching one moment at a time : disruption and repair in the classroom. University of Massachusetts Press, 2005.

 

[Nessie]

Saggy, where are your witnesses to daily transits of 1000 plus from the AR camps?

 

[Saggy]

Morris's brother Schlomo remembered in the 1990s that he too had been a sonderkommando, and he had some stories to tell in his book 'Inside the Gas Chambers: Eight Months in the Sonderkommando of Auschwitz'

Schlomo's Tall Tales

Highlights:

He Gassed His Own Poppa

He recalls, for example, the day he met his father's emaciated cousin in an undressing room at the gas chambers. Venezia offered him the only solace possible, he writes -- some sardines and a lie that the Zyklon B would kill him quickly.

``It was just terrible to have to lie, but there was no way around it,'' Venezia explains. ``I tried in some way to make the horrible situation easier.''

Mother Murdered

He was 20 years old when he put his own momma in the oven.


Many Pretty Woman

Cutting the hair off cadavers, pulling their gold teeth and dragging them to the furnaces became mechanical, Venezia says. The routine broke down only when the prisoners were confronted with body of young beautiful woman.

One looked like ``a woman in a painting,'' Venezia says, pausing for a moment in reflection. ``Like Mona Lisa.'' Yet there was nothing to do but cremate her.


Nazis Shoot Mothers Nursing Babies

Another day, his unit found a live baby trying to suck its dead mother's breast among a heap of corpses in a gas chamber. The prisoners watched without protest as a Nazi guard unloaded his pistol into the infant.

Izzie Forgot About Auschwitz Till 1992

Venezia never talked about Auschwitz -- even with his wife and children -- until he visited the camp in 1992. At the time, Italy was experiencing a resurgence of anti-Semitism, and he decided to tell his story.

Since then, he has returned to Auschwitz 46 times, often accompanying groups. He gives talks at schools across Italy.

Throwing Live Children In The Ovens

Little Rudy Blinkowitz was barely 4 years old.

I don't know about you, but I'd like to see Dawn Skorczewski's take on this valuable testimony.

 

[Elagabalus]

...From Laurence Rees' book ... 'Auschwitz - How Mankind Committed the Ultimate Infamy'

Laurence Rees (born 1957) is a British historian. He is a documentary filmmaker and author of several books about atrocities committed by the totalitarian states of the Second World War. He is the former Creative Director of History Programmes for the BBC. His documentaries and books are used as teaching aids in British schools.

You've never heard of Laurence Rees, have you?

Stanislaw Szmajzner, from Sobibor-even Franz Stangl remembered him*. In 1978 he met Gustav Wagner in Brazil where both were living. Gustav Wagner admits that the killings took place in this article:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...-killer/c50b9591-da25-485e-a579-b56d8d8708eb/


*https://www.amazon.com/Into-That-Darkness-Examination-Conscience/dp/0394710355

From Auschwitz here is a gassing order for 394 women-as well as other documents you might want to peruse:

http://auschwitz.org/en/gallery/historical-pictures-and-documents/archive-documents,2.html

Some words of Nick Terry about it over on CODOH

https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5882

And, of course, here's you dismissing the testimony of Wilhelm Pfannenstiel even though you admit to not ever hearing about a Belzec camp. So much for "exhaustive research". Post 52

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=143517&hilit=majdanek+wedding&start=90

Look through the documents from here:

http://auschwitz.org/en/gallery/historical-pictures-and-documents/archive-documents,2.html

there are transit passes to other camps for "observations" as well as for the "BriefAktion".

Remember your incredulity is not an argument.

 

[Saggy]

To see and hear all three of these idiots together, watch Eric Hunt's takedown of Spielberg's movie 'The Last Days'.... the link will take you to the segment ...

https://youtu.be/80GgRWuXcO8?t=5322

Schlomo, Morris, and Dario

The whole segment is not to be missed !

Schlomo recounts how the Nazis killed 3 babies with one bullet. Again, according to Dawn Skorczewski, Director of University Writing and Professor of English at Brandeis University, this is another very valuable absurdity, because given enough absurdies, readily available at the Spielberg archive, the various absurdites cancel out leaving the truth.

 

[Nessie]

Saggy, your refusal to acknowledge you cannot evidence the millions of survivors you claim were transited back out of the camps, makes the rest of your claims look very, very stupid indeed.

 

[LemmyCaution]

You don't deserve a reply, as you've refused to address answers and challenges directed to you over weeks; so you won't get a reply from me unless and until you respond to the topics and posts you've been dodging and ignoring.

If you think your Venezia spam is helping your case, let me explain the posts you seem unable to absorb: nearly everyone here sees clearly what your tactics are, recognizes the deficiencies in your knowledge and thought process, and is tired of your stalling, non-answers, and diversions.

 

[Saggy]

Another very well known hoax witness is Eliahu Rosenberg, who testified at John Demjanuk's first trial and unequivocally identified him as Ivan the Terrible of Treblinka. We even have his degenerate lies on video ..

Rosenberg Demjanuk testimony

It was revealed during the trial that Rosenberg had previously testified that he witnessed the death of Ivan the Terrible in the camp uprising in '43.

No problem for the Jewish court, Demjanuk was convicted and sentenced to death.

Here is an academic's take on Rosenberg's lies .... from

Holohoax 102

Inga Clendinnen on Training our Ignorant Ears

Inga Clendinnen is a distinguished Australian writer and historian, with a long list of awards and honors. She explains, in her book 'Reading the Holocaust', that the 'survivors' made up their stories, but that it doesn't matter! In Eyewitness Auschwitz: Three Years in the Gas Chambers Filip Mueller describes a titillating scene involving "a few girls, naked and in the full bloom of youth" in a gas chamber, who make every effort to cheer up Meuller just before they are gassed, nothing is too absurd for the holohoax. Clendinnen explicates "I do not think that Meuller was 'lying' (!ed.) , but rather the story slowly flowered in his mind, growing out of smaller actual moment in the undressing room, and his own terrible inability to intervene". In John Demjanjuk's 1987 trial Eliahu Rosenberg made an eyewitness identification of Demjanjuk as Ivan the Terrible of the Treblinka camp. It was revealed that Rosenberg had testified in 1947 that he had participated in killing Ivan the Terrible in the Treblinka uprising in 1943. Did the dead Ivan return to life? Clenninden explicates - "An abashed Rosenberg tried to explain that 'this is how it was told to me in the forest', where he and his panicky, triumphant comrades had taken brief refuge after the revolt. Desparately wanting and needing the story to be true, visualising it, exulting in it, they made it true, and took necessary courage from it." She doesn't tell us how Rosenberg found the courage to falsely identify Demjanuk, who was freed after it was revealed that forged documents were used in the trial and that he had never set foot in Treblinka. This is irrelevant to Clendinnen, who tells us how to hear the truth contained in demonstrated lies - "We have to train our ignorant ears to hear those communiques from the underworld. The voices we will hear find their context within a vast silence: the multitude of the dead. It is almost impossible to fathom the depth of the silence, to remember that behind the shoulder of every individual who survived the camps stand a thousand who did not." Thus Mueller's book, a pack of obvious degenerate lies, is for Clendinnen " a rough hewn, magnificent work" .

 

[Parsman]

Saggy as numerous members here have asked you (so I have no hope of a serious answer) name one witness to onward transport of the 1000s upon 1000s of victims you claim were moved on from concentration camps and survived the war. Members here have supplied plenty of witnesses to extermination, whether you believe them or not. Same challenge to you then. Supply just 1 witness to the survival of even 1000 of the reported dead. Their evidence can then be evaluated by members here who have a far better command of the subject matter than I do (and, I strongly suspect, than you do too!)

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Saggy as numerous members here have asked you (so I have no hope of a serious answer) name one witness to onward transport of the 1000s upon 1000s of victims you claim were moved on from concentration camps and survived the war. Members here have supplied plenty of witnesses to extermination, whether you believe them or not. Same challenge to you then. Supply just 1 witness to the survival of even 1000 of the reported dead. Their evidence can then be evaluated by members here who have a far better command of the subject matter than I do (and, I strongly suspect, than you do too!)

Seconded.

 

[Nessie]

Seconded.

Thirded.

Unfortunately for you, Saggy, when it comes to evidencing, even if the only alternative that can be evidence causes you to be incredulous, it is the ONLY ALTERNATIVE. Unless you can supply witnesses, documents, physical, supporting and other evidence for hundreds of thousands of people being transited back out of the AR camps (which is something that would leave a large amount of evidence), no matter how much you doubt that they were killed, it IS WHAT HAPPENED.

 

[Belz...]

Morris's brother Schlomo remembered in the 1990s that he too had been a sonderkommando, and he had some stories to tell in his book 'Inside the Gas Chambers: Eight Months in the Sonderkommando of Auschwitz'

Schlomo's Tall Tales

Highlights:

He Gassed His Own Poppa

He recalls, for example, the day he met his father's emaciated cousin in an undressing room at the gas chambers. Venezia offered him the only solace possible, he writes -- some sardines and a lie that the Zyklon B would kill him quickly.

``It was just terrible to have to lie, but there was no way around it,'' Venezia explains. ``I tried in some way to make the horrible situation easier.''

Mother Murdered

He was 20 years old when he put his own momma in the oven.


Many Pretty Woman

Cutting the hair off cadavers, pulling their gold teeth and dragging them to the furnaces became mechanical, Venezia says. The routine broke down only when the prisoners were confronted with body of young beautiful woman.

One looked like ``a woman in a painting,'' Venezia says, pausing for a moment in reflection. ``Like Mona Lisa.'' Yet there was nothing to do but cremate her.


Nazis Shoot Mothers Nursing Babies

Another day, his unit found a live baby trying to suck its dead mother's breast among a heap of corpses in a gas chamber. The prisoners watched without protest as a Nazi guard unloaded his pistol into the infant.

Izzie Forgot About Auschwitz Till 1992

Venezia never talked about Auschwitz -- even with his wife and children -- until he visited the camp in 1992. At the time, Italy was experiencing a resurgence of anti-Semitism, and he decided to tell his story.

Since then, he has returned to Auschwitz 46 times, often accompanying groups. He gives talks at schools across Italy.

Throwing Live Children In The Ovens

Little Rudy Blinkowitz was barely 4 years old.

I don't know about you, but I'd like to see Dawn Skorczewski's take on this valuable testimony.

What do you think all this proves? That they are telling a story you disbelieve already?

 

[LemmyCaution]

Thirded.

x4

As this is a discussion board, not a venue for spam and propaganda on behalf of the Nazis, and as one of the main questions Saggy has dodged, time and again, asks for his evidence for "onward transport" of many 1000s of Jews, I should think that until Saggy commits to discussion by answering this question we should not indulge his attempts to spam, divert, and avoid.

 

[Elagabalus]

What do you think all this proves? That they are telling a story you disbelieve already?

I think Saggy's suspicious that (((he))) chose to come forward in the "nineties". I, myself, can forgive the delay, after all, when Venezia recalls something he remembers it in "Super Schlomo".






Apologies. It was right there ...

 

[smartcooky]

Saggy as numerous members here have asked you (so I have no hope of a serious answer) name one witness to onward transport of the 1000s upon 1000s of victims you claim were moved on from concentration camps and survived the war. Members here have supplied plenty of witnesses to extermination, whether you believe them or not. Same challenge to you then. Supply just 1 witness to the survival of even 1000 of the reported dead. Their evidence can then be evaluated by members here who have a far better command of the subject matter than I do (and, I strongly suspect, than you do too!)

And Fourthed!

You have made a claim Saggy, and you need to substantiate it.

The requests for evidence and substantiation of your claims from members here are not going to go away anytime soon. We all know that you will continue to ignore these requests, but nonetheless, we will continue to make them.

The purpose of this is not to embarrass you (I'm not sure that is even possible) but to make sure that the many lurkers and observers who read this thread can see you for what you are.. a Holocaust denier, who in typical Holocaust denier fashion, is unable and/or unwilling to make any attempt to back their outrageous allegations with facts and evidence.

 

[Saggy]

Oh, the horror. Emil Wolff tells the story ....

Auschwitz: Man cremates his parents & collects the fat for soap

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Saggy, where are your witnesses to daily transits of 1000 plus from the AR camps?

You don't deserve a reply, as you've refused to address answers and challenges directed to you over weeks; so you won't get a reply from me unless and until you respond to the topics and posts you've been dodging and ignoring.

If you think your Venezia spam is helping your case, let me explain the posts you seem unable to absorb: nearly everyone here sees clearly what your tactics are, recognizes the deficiencies in your knowledge and thought process, and is tired of your stalling, non-answers, and diversions.

Saggy as numerous members here have asked you (so I have no hope of a serious answer) name one witness to onward transport of the 1000s upon 1000s of victims you claim were moved on from concentration camps and survived the war. Members here have supplied plenty of witnesses to extermination, whether you believe them or not. Same challenge to you then. Supply just 1 witness to the survival of even 1000 of the reported dead. Their evidence can then be evaluated by members here who have a far better command of the subject matter than I do (and, I strongly suspect, than you do too!)

Saggy, do you ever read anyone else's posts, or are you just here to spam your own stuff?
Is there a part of "forum" and "discussion" that is confusing you? Are you aware that this is not your own personal blog?
If your answer is 'yes;, then how about answering the question?