Ed Dueling protests spark state of emergency in Virginia.

[ponderingturtle]

They arrested him, so it seems like they must have done something.

Immediately after he fired his shot, which was clearly a warning shot directed toward another person who was using a deadly weapon at the time, he put away his gun.

Violating the law with firearms in clear view of the police is ok as along as you are a nazi.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I would enjoy seeing the arguments that Michelangelo's David is a pornographic display.

Well the statue of justice in the justice department is clearly lewd, at least to some attorney generals.

 

[ponderingturtle]

There's a significant difference between waiting for the best moment in an ongoing situation and waiting for the situation to come to a halt on its own.

People have actually been shot and killed, by cops, for less than this. Obviously, that's an over-reaction, but that doesn't justify going to the other extreme and doing nothing. This wasn't wisdom; it was luck.

Yet the people who argue that those shootings were not over reactions clearly think this was the right course of action. He was clearly not as much of a threat as a black man with a concealed carry permit carrying legally.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I don't think this is fair at all. As far as I can tell, we don't have enough information to ascertain why the police didn't intervene - and I agree that they should have.

In a situation like this, with multiple skirmishes breaking out among a crowd of thousands, it's not unusual for police to take a hands-off approach until they can go in with force and break up the fights. This is to ensure that they don't make things worse, and put their own officers in danger as a result. I've been in this situation myself many times, and I know how it looks from the outside - like we're not doing anything about the violence. But it's normally the best approach.

That all depends on the color of those involved. They are certainly not going to be to confrontational as their natural allies in the white nationalist movement, as they are with people protesting police violence. You question the cops violence you earn more violence from them. The police and the nazi's are certainly in agreement on if black lives matter after all.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Yes, that's an aerosol can, sprayed nowhere near anyone. And that's when the Nazi with the pistol shoots towards them.

So, someone using an aerosol can to spray fire nowhere near anyone, and a Nazi shooting towards counter-protesters. Equivalence in your eyes?

ETA: I notice the word "flamethrower" shows up in connection with this video only in pro-alt-right comments.

And you don't think meadmaker has been clear what side he is on?

 

[Stacko]

Leaked audio: Unite the Right Nazis planned violence at rally.

http://amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2017/08/26/charlottesville-violence-leaked-chats/?source=dam

 

[quadraginta]

Watch the video and check out the flames coming from the upper right corner.

They are coming from what looks like some sort of aerosol can that a counterprotester is igniting and aiming toward the alt-righters on the steps. I've seen other video of him. I'll try a search on "charlotesville flamethrower" and see if anything comes up. The shot is fired immediately after a burst of flame.

ETA: Flamethrower guy's name is Corey Long. https://www.theroot.com/white-nationalist-opened-fire-at-crowd-during-charlotte-1798474021

And there's the answer to what Corey Long used for his "flamethrower". It's in an interview cited by your article.

“At first it was peaceful protest,” Long said softly as he spoke. “Until someone pointed a gun at my head. Then the same person pointed it at my foot and shot the ground.”
Long said the only weapon he had was a can of spray paint that a white supremacist threw at him earlier, so he took a lighter to the spray paint and turned it into a flame thrower. And a photographer snapped the photo.

Mighty nice of the Nazis to pass out flamethrowers to the opposition before they started shooting at them.

 

[Meadmaker]

Yes, that's an aerosol can, sprayed nowhere near anyone. And that's when the Nazi with the pistol shoots towards them.

(emphasis added)
????????????????????

ETA: I notice the word "flamethrower" shows up in connection with this video only in pro-alt-right comments.

Your powers of observation are lacking, then, because the link I posted is not pro alt-right, and that was what came up.


But, I would not be at all surprised to find that the pro-alt-right articles and commentary are more likely to mention the flamethrower than other sources.

 

[Meadmaker]

And there's the answer to what Corey Long used for his "flamethrower". It's in an interview cited by your article.

​

Mighty nice of the Nazis to pass out flamethrowers to the opposition before they started shooting at them.

No one ever accused them of being smart.

 

[uke2se]

(emphasis added)
????????????????????

What's the issue? He's lighting the gas on fire, directing it towards the white supremacists approximately 5-10 meters away.

Do you think this is equivalent to firing a pistol towards the crowd?

 

[Meadmaker]

What's the issue? He's lighting the gas on fire, directing it towards the white supremacists approximately 5-10 meters away.

Your distance measurements seem a bit inaccurate.

Do you think this is equivalent to firing a pistol towards the crowd?

I think if he has a good lawyer, he'll be able to convince a jury that the flames constituted an extreme threat to the life or health of those being attacked with the flames, and that the use of deadly force was justified. His firing of a shot that was clearly intended as a warning shot, deliberately aimed at the ground immediately after Mr. Long directed a burst of flames toward the rival protest group could be portrayed as an act of extreme restraint.

Of course, he probably can't afford a good lawyer.

In all seriousness, I do think he will try to portray his actions as defensive in nature, protecting his friends from a deadly threat. I don't think it will work, and I don't think it ought to work, but I do think that Mr. Long's actions with the makeshift flamethrower are a good demonstration of the sort of escalating violence present on both sides that were present at that rally. It was a powder keg that was primed by both sides. I do think that Mr. Long should have been arrested, but perhaps that's unfair. Perhaps he stands out among a huge crowd of violent people just because of the novel nature of the weapon he employed.

 

[uke2se]

Your distance measurements seem a bit inaccurate.



I think if he has a good lawyer, he'll be able to convince a jury that the flames constituted an extreme threat to the life or health of those being attacked with the flames, and that the use of deadly force was justified. His firing of a shot that was clearly intended as a warning shot, deliberately aimed at the ground immediately after Mr. Long directed a burst of flames toward the rival protest group could be portrayed as an act of extreme restraint.

Of course, he probably can't afford a good lawyer.

In all seriousness, I do think he will try to portray his actions as defensive in nature, protecting his friends from a deadly threat. I don't think it will work, and I don't think it ought to work, but I do think that Mr. Long's actions with the makeshift flamethrower are a good demonstration of the sort of escalating violence present on both sides that were present at that rally. It was a powder keg that was primed by both sides. I do think that Mr. Long should have been arrested, but perhaps that's unfair. Perhaps he stands out among a huge crowd of violent people just because of the novel nature of the weapon he employed.

Mr Long did not employ his weapon against anyone. He did not assault anyone with it. It's highly inappropriate to even hint at an euivalency with what the Nazi did. He did assault someone with a deadly weapon.

Mr Long should not have been arrested because he did not commit a crime. The Nazi did.

 

[uke2se]

Another victim of Charlottesville:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2017/08/27/stormfront_has_been_kicked_offline.html

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

 

[Meadmaker]

Mr Long did not employ his weapon against anyone. He did not assault anyone with it. It's highly inappropriate to even hint at an euivalency with what the Nazi did. He did assault someone with a deadly weapon.

Mr Long should not have been arrested because he did not commit a crime. The Nazi did.

Let's keep in mind that the crime of assault occurs when violence is threatened. No contact or injury is required.

With that in mind, I would challenge anyone to look at the widely distributed photo of Mr. Long wielding his spray paint flamethrower at the crowd and say, with a straight face, that he is not threatening them with violence, i.e. committing assault.

Perhaps he would claim that the assault was justified as a matter of defense against a threat. That isn't apparent in the photo, but perhaps he could justify the claim.

 

[uke2se]

Let's keep in mind that the crime of assault occurs when violence is threatened. No contact or injury is required.

In that case, every single Nazi was guilty of assault.

With that in mind, I would challenge anyone to look at the widely distributed photo of Mr. Long wielding his spray paint flamethrower at the crowd and say, with a straight face, that he is not threatening them with violence, i.e. committing assault.

I'm saying that, because you are misinterpreting what assault is.

ETA: If he was holding the spray can to a Nazi's face, threatening to light it, that would be assault. What he did wasn't.

Perhaps he would claim that the assault was justified as a matter of defense against a threat. That isn't apparent in the photo, but perhaps he could justify the claim.

He won't have to justify it.

Now, can we stop this useless false equvivalence and get back to the fact that a Nazi fired a gun at counter-protesters?

 

[jimbob]

I don't think this is fair at all. As far as I can tell, we don't have enough information to ascertain why the police didn't intervene - and I agree that they should have.

In a situation like this, with multiple skirmishes breaking out among a crowd of thousands, it's not unusual for police to take a hands-off approach until they can go in with force and break up the fights. This is to ensure that they don't make things worse, and put their own officers in danger as a result. I've been in this situation myself many times, and I know how it looks from the outside - like we're not doing anything about the violence. But it's normally the best approach.

This is obviously not the case when someone is firing a gun at (towards) someone else - then it's a matter of protecting someone's life. I hope that the police simply did not see what happened.

True, except... with only a little bit of Poe:

He is clearly less threatening than a black man with a BB gun, or a black kid with a toy gun. Because he is white and was a ally of the police. Blue lives matter not black ones after all.

When so many US police forces are so prone to shooting people who are no threat (and obviously no threat) it seems odd to allow someone to point a gun at someone, then fire a round (even if at the ground), and not immediately arrest them - given the eyewitness accounts, it does look as though the police should have heard the gunshot.

Leaked audio: Unite the Right Nazis planned violence at rally.

http://amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2017/08/26/charlottesville-violence-leaked-chats/?source=dam

One of the least surprising things to come out of this. It is interesting that they were discussing driving cars through counter-protesters, though.

 

[ponderingturtle]

One of the least surprising things to come out of this. It is interesting that they were discussing driving cars through counter-protesters, though.

Why it has been a dream of the right for a few years now, once the civil rights protestors started making more noise again.

 

[Stacko]

One of the least surprising things to come out of this. It is interesting that they were discussing driving cars through counter-protesters, though.

To be fair, this is a mainstream fantasy of many GOPers not just the Nazis. Many state legislatures are attempting to pass legislation to remove civil consequences from the act.

 

[sir drinks-a-lot]

Leaked audio: Unite the Right Nazis planned violence at rally.

http://amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2017/08/26/charlottesville-violence-leaked-chats/?source=dam

Hmmm...I didn't actually listen to the audio. What did they say?

I clicked on the link, noticed it had a headline with a much different Maning than the title you provided:

Leaked Chats Show Charlottesville Marchers Were Planning for Violence

Just one word, but it makes a big, big difference!

Anyways, I only had about 20 second to look for the audio link, and gave up after being bombarded by clickbait. I'll probably try and give it a listen later.

 

[Emily's Cat]

Black people are a protected group

No, this is incorrect.

Race is a protected attribute. You cannot discriminate against a person on the basis of their race. That's as far as it goes. Black people don't have a separate legal status in totality, they are not a protected group. They have the same protection against discrimination as does an asian person, or a hispanic person, or a first nations person, or a pacific islander, or a white person.