Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories V: Five for Fighting

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Where do you think this single head shot entered?

I'm not the expert whose opinion that there was only one head shot you cited as supporting evidence for your theory that there were two head shots. I suggest you ask the expert who you believe supports your theory why he doesn't support your theory.

Dave
 
The doctors who were there with the body examined the autopsy collection many times and thought that the photographs and x-rays could be compatible with the EOP wound.

The bullet strike can be seen on the Zapruder Film.

No other bullet to the head is seen in the film, nor was it seen by anyone standing on the sidewalk, nor was a second bullet recovered from the body or the limo.

The variations on where the impact point was varies by only a few centimeters in either direction, and doesn't rule out the 6th floor of the TSBD as the point of origin.

You are trying to argue medical theory which you clearly do not understand (this is why I sit on the sidelines on the 9-11 forums when they talk engineering and physics), and it's clear that you cherry-pick quotes out of context, which ultimately undermines your pet theory. Worst part is that it's not your theory but somebody else's idea that you think has merit. So you waste time doing "research" on CT sites quote-mining instead of starting from zero.

You have admitted multiple times that you went looking for a conspiracy when you started in on JFK. Why? What is your world view?

The JFK CT fell apart for me when I went to Dallas and saw it was an easy shot. I'd been lied to, partially because I allowed it to happen.

The CT no longer holds water in the light of the real world. You postulate that photos were confiscated, yet cannot show they were ever taken. You postulate that x-rays are fakes, or that they were destroyed or that they were lost. This supposedly happens at a time where there are three active investigations into the assassination by two federal agencies, and one Texas law enforcement agency - and nobody knew what they would find. So why alter autopsy evidence to support a narrative that isn't even set yet?

It is not enough for you to throw red herrings at us all day, you need to tell us your over arching narrative of what you think happened in Dealey Plaza, and who was behind it. We've asked you two dozen times and you chicken out each time. Nobody here expects that you will come to the plate on this issue either, most CTist won't because they know their big theory doesn't hold water on any level.

I'll settle for your explanation as to why the 6.5x52mm Carcano round is not capable of the damage we see in JFK and Connally.

Not holding my though...:thumbsup:
 
I'm not the expert whose opinion that there was only one head shot you cited as supporting evidence for your theory that there were two head shots. I suggest you ask the expert who you believe supports your theory why he doesn't support your theory.

Dave

But where do you think the entry wound described by the doctors was located?
 
Axxman300 - What on the Zapruder Film do you think indicates a shot entering the cowlick? The Zapruder Film shows literally no debris going backwards, so you can't try saying you can see backspatter. All you could have is a bit of hair flipped over and your imagination.

c6rKXdS.gif
 
Axxman300 - What on the Zapruder Film do you think indicates a shot entering the cowlick? The Zapruder Film shows literally no debris going backwards, so you can't try saying you can see backspatter. All you could have is a bit of hair flipped over and your imagination.

[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/c6rKXdS.gif[/qimg]

For the guy who's default response when questioned about lack of visual evidence of a send head shot is "It's not like it is in Hollywood" you seem to expect a Hollywood reaction to a real world shooting.

Back-splatter only happens when the bullet does not exit the skull, and all of that energy combined with blood under pressure pours like s fountain from the entry wound.

The 6.5x52mm blew out the top front of his skull, so there was no pressure coming back out the entry wound.

In the Zapruder Film you can see everything above the entry point inside JFK's skull shudder as the skull is shattered. Everything below the entry point remained static. You just have to know what you're looking, but all of those fractures in the skull are practically visible for a fraction of a second before the scalp resettled. The right top side of his head was like a bowl of nachos under a greasy paper towel.

Now I'm hungry. :thumbsup:
 
Axxman300 - What on the Zapruder Film do you think indicates a shot entering the cowlick? The Zapruder Film shows literally no debris going backwards, so you can't try saying you can see backspatter. All you could have is a bit of hair flipped over and your imagination.

[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/c6rKXdS.gif[/qimg]

What's backspatter in relation to the JFK GSW?
 
But where do you think the entry wound described by the doctors was located?

Why do you continue this ineffective approach of where the bullet wound was? It was in the back of the head and any/all comments as to the exact location is non productive. The bullet hit from behind in the back of the head.
 
Why do you continue this ineffective approach of where the bullet wound was?

Standard conspiracy theorist technique. First, look for any possible inconsistencies in The Official Story[tm]. If you can't find any, look for possible areas where, by pushing your interpretation of what The Official Story[tm] says to one end of the normal error margin and your interpretation of what actually happened to the other end, you can give the false impression that there's an inconsistency. Next, declare this imagined inconsistency to be real and irrefutable, and ideally dream up a set of fantasy consequences of the imagined inconsistency so you can claim that they were observed but must have been suppressed by the authorities at the time; the absence of these observations from the historical record can then be claimed as further evidence on your side. Then, conclude that this overturns the accepted view of history and your own incoherent set of mutually contradictory theories must be substituted for it, declare victory, and assert that everybody only disagrees with you because They're All In On It[tm]. The argument can then be spun out forever by demanding that everyone criticizing your confused ramblings must prove some completely different theory, ideally one based on so gross a misinterpretation of what actually happened that it's almost as fantastic as your own, otherwise yours remains unchallenged. We're well into the final stage here, where MJ responds to every criticism of his specious arguments with a demand for an exact position of the entry wound even though it has nothing to do with the post he's responding to. In his world, it's just part of the strategy.

Dave
 
Standard conspiracy theorist technique. First, look for any possible inconsistencies in The Official Story[tm]. If you can't find any, look for possible areas where, by pushing your interpretation of what The Official Story[tm] says to one end of the normal error margin and your interpretation of what actually happened to the other end, you can give the false impression that there's an inconsistency. Next, declare this imagined inconsistency to be real and irrefutable, and ideally dream up a set of fantasy consequences of the imagined inconsistency so you can claim that they were observed but must have been suppressed by the authorities at the time; the absence of these observations from the historical record can then be claimed as further evidence on your side. Then, conclude that this overturns the accepted view of history and your own incoherent set of mutually contradictory theories must be substituted for it, declare victory, and assert that everybody only disagrees with you because They're All In On It[tm]. The argument can then be spun out forever by demanding that everyone criticizing your confused ramblings must prove some completely different theory, ideally one based on so gross a misinterpretation of what actually happened that it's almost as fantastic as your own, otherwise yours remains unchallenged. We're well into the final stage here, where MJ responds to every criticism of his specious arguments with a demand for an exact position of the entry wound even though it has nothing to do with the post he's responding to. In his world, it's just part of the strategy.

Dave

Part and parcel of that technique as it applies to the JFK assassination is to reject anything pointing to Oswald and accepting anything that points away from Oswald - even if they are from the same source.

So anything contained in a FBI memo is rejected if it points to Oswald because 'they were part of the cover-up'. But if something in a FBI memo can be used to attempt to exonerate Oswald, why, it came down on a stone tablet directly from God and is totally believable.

We see that throughout the CT literature and it's prevalent in every conspiracy theorist that posts here.

Even the current CT who has been posting here. He'll cite anything he thinks points to a second shot to the head, no matter the source or how many decades after the assassination the witness first mentioned it, but reject anything that says there was only one shot to the head.

So Micah Java will quote some recollection by the autopsists Humes, Finck, and Boswell made 33 years after the assassination as if those recollections are totally trustworthy, but reject the observations and conclusions of the SAME MEN made on the night of the assassination and documented that weekend.

So he goes on and on about the supposed EOP wound and how this must mean two shots to the head, but ignores entirely the conclusions of the autopsists and the HSCA forensic pathology panel that there was only one shot to the head that exited the top right side of the head.

MJ also assumes JFK was struck in the head very early in the assassination (in the Zapruder film between frames 190 and 224), continued to sit upright and breathing, AND even pointed to his throat for five or six seconds until a second shot took off the top of his head - contravening everything we know about how the brain works.

Among other failings, Micah Java also ignores that JFK had a back wound with no corresponding bullet found in the body. He suggests the EOP head shot made the throat wound, but that leaves no exit wound for the shot that hit JFK in the upper back, and no bullet in the body -- meaning he's conjectured a magical bullet that just vanishes into thin air.

He's never even attempted to reconcile his various thoughts about the shooting, nor offered an overall accounting of the assassination. He's never explained why we should disbelieve the experts and trust his layman's judgment on all this, either.

He simply ignores any arguments and evidence he can't incorporate into his theory, and fails to recognize that it takes more than one data point to draw a line.

Hank
 
Part and parcel of that technique as it applies to the JFK assassination is to reject anything pointing to Oswald and accepting anything that points away from Oswald - even if they are from the same source.

Of which, of course, the statement that I was originally responding to is a classic example:

Forensic pathologist Peter Cummings had access to view the entire autopsy collection, and he thinks the official evidence can be compatible with an entry near the EOP without anything being faked. Peter Cummings also believes that a single shot entered near the EOP and exited the top of the head, but that's another story.

Using an expert's stated conclusion that only one bullet struck Kennedy's head as evidence that two bullets struck Kennedy's head requires a level of mental gymnastics that the rest of us can only wonder at.

Dave
 
Among other failings, Micah Java also ignores that JFK had a back wound with no corresponding bullet found in the body. He suggests the EOP head shot made the throat wound, but that leaves no exit wound for the shot that hit JFK in the upper back, and no bullet in the body -- meaning he's conjectured a magical bullet that just vanishes into thin air.

Snipped with respect.

Hank

When someone has -0- RW experience or training in the subject they tend to make it up as they go along, and MJ is no exception.

Every kooky idea wrt the ballistics and GSW evidence "inconsistencies" that some CTist has cooked up he wants to revisit...over and over...that we've (the posters in this thread) already weighed and rejected, or in some cases (the 88 yd "impossible" shot) knew were nonsense the first time we encountered them.

I'm sounding like a broken record here, but how many times have I and other posters cited human frailty as a reasonable (as in non-conspiratorial) explanation for the CTist inconsistency hit parade only to have the current chew toy ignore that possibility or categorically reject it?

Anyone that reviews human actions and behaviors in any venue that rejects the possibility of human error is either a fool or an isolated hermit.
 
For the guy who's default response when questioned about lack of visual evidence of a send head shot is "It's not like it is in Hollywood" you seem to expect a Hollywood reaction to a real world shooting.

Back-splatter only happens when the bullet does not exit the skull, and all of that energy combined with blood under pressure pours like s fountain from the entry wound.

The 6.5x52mm blew out the top front of his skull, so there was no pressure coming back out the entry wound.

In the Zapruder Film you can see everything above the entry point inside JFK's skull shudder as the skull is shattered. Everything below the entry point remained static. You just have to know what you're looking, but all of those fractures in the skull are practically visible for a fraction of a second before the scalp resettled. The right top side of his head was like a bowl of nachos under a greasy paper towel.

Now I'm hungry. :thumbsup:

Yes... The Zapruder Film shows the top of the head become damaged (for some, it may be hard to see under the hair, but it's there, above the red blob indicating the bone flap seen on the autopsy photos). You are assuming that what you are seeing is related to the entry wound rather than the large exit wound. Your alleged entry wound location was on the top of the head, besides the large defect. So you are just using your imagination.

Also, back spatter does occur when the missile exits. Debris ejected from an exit wound is called forward spatter. You can have both back spatter and forward spatter with one missile wound.
 
Standard conspiracy theorist technique. First, look for any possible inconsistencies in The Official Story[tm]. If you can't find any, look for possible areas where, by pushing your interpretation of what The Official Story[tm] says to one end of the normal error margin and your interpretation of what actually happened to the other end, you can give the false impression that there's an inconsistency. Next, declare this imagined inconsistency to be real and irrefutable, and ideally dream up a set of fantasy consequences of the imagined inconsistency so you can claim that they were observed but must have been suppressed by the authorities at the time; the absence of these observations from the historical record can then be claimed as further evidence on your side. Then, conclude that this overturns the accepted view of history and your own incoherent set of mutually contradictory theories must be substituted for it, declare victory, and assert that everybody only disagrees with you because They're All In On It[tm]. The argument can then be spun out forever by demanding that everyone criticizing your confused ramblings must prove some completely different theory, ideally one based on so gross a misinterpretation of what actually happened that it's almost as fantastic as your own, otherwise yours remains unchallenged. We're well into the final stage here, where MJ responds to every criticism of his specious arguments with a demand for an exact position of the entry wound even though it has nothing to do with the post he's responding to. In his world, it's just part of the strategy.

Dave

Dave, theorizing about more than one gunshot to JFK's head starts with the humble EOP wound, and the EOP wound is the one supported by everybody who was there.
 
Part and parcel of that technique as it applies to the JFK assassination is to reject anything pointing to Oswald and accepting anything that points away from Oswald - even if they are from the same source.

So anything contained in a FBI memo is rejected if it points to Oswald because 'they were part of the cover-up'. But if something in a FBI memo can be used to attempt to exonerate Oswald, why, it came down on a stone tablet directly from God and is totally believable.

We see that throughout the CT literature and it's prevalent in every conspiracy theorist that posts here.

Even the current CT who has been posting here. He'll cite anything he thinks points to a second shot to the head, no matter the source or how many decades after the assassination the witness first mentioned it, but reject anything that says there was only one shot to the head.

So Micah Java will quote some recollection by the autopsists Humes, Finck, and Boswell made 33 years after the assassination as if those recollections are totally trustworthy, but reject the observations and conclusions of the SAME MEN made on the night of the assassination and documented that weekend.

So he goes on and on about the supposed EOP wound and how this must mean two shots to the head, but ignores entirely the conclusions of the autopsists and the HSCA forensic pathology panel that there was only one shot to the head that exited the top right side of the head.

MJ also assumes JFK was struck in the head very early in the assassination (in the Zapruder film between frames 190 and 224), continued to sit upright and breathing, AND even pointed to his throat for five or six seconds until a second shot took off the top of his head - contravening everything we know about how the brain works.

Among other failings, Micah Java also ignores that JFK had a back wound with no corresponding bullet found in the body. He suggests the EOP head shot made the throat wound, but that leaves no exit wound for the shot that hit JFK in the upper back, and no bullet in the body -- meaning he's conjectured a magical bullet that just vanishes into thin air.

He's never even attempted to reconcile his various thoughts about the shooting, nor offered an overall accounting of the assassination. He's never explained why we should disbelieve the experts and trust his layman's judgment on all this, either.

He simply ignores any arguments and evidence he can't incorporate into his theory, and fails to recognize that it takes more than one data point to draw a line.

Hank

HSienzant, you cannot use "the government thinks it was one shot" as evidence for the cowlick entry wound. The evidence supports the EOP location for the entry wound. The doctors used a ruler to make measurements of the wounds on the body, and they wrote down that the entry wound was "2.5 centimeters to the right and slightly above the EOP". That contemporary measurement, written on notes taken as the body was laying right there, is where an entry near the EOP was established. Not 33-years-later, although it doesn't help you that 33-year-late information refutes as the same-day information does.

If the government says there was only one bullet that struck the head, while the actual forensic evidence presented by Humes et. al shows that it almost certainly cannot be true, you should start wondering if you live in a world of propaganda rather than trying to move the wounds around to fit your desired scenario.
 
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Of which, of course, the statement that I was originally responding to is a classic example:

Using an expert's stated conclusion that only one bullet struck Kennedy's head as evidence that two bullets struck Kennedy's head requires a level of mental gymnastics that the rest of us can only wonder at.

Dave

You have to give specific information if you want to establish a single shot to the head. The LNers here know that the EOP wound location causes a lot of problems for that notion, so they stay cowlickers.
 
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