Charlottesville Car Crash Video

Childlike Empress said:
...realised somewhere half a block down that an unguided demonstration was coming wrong way up the one way street.
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ETA: I'm wrong here: The counter-protesters were heading down the hill, in the same direction that Mr. Fields was heading. Still, there were vehicles in front of him that he surely could see that the counter-protesters were not molesting, so there was no need for panic.

Skeptic Tank said:
I personally think he did a burst forward with the car to try to show them he meant business and wanted through...
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That's what horns are for. You'll note a curious lack of honking from Mr. Fields' vehicle.
 
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Cl1mh4224rd said:
ETA: I'm wrong here: The counter-protesters were heading down the hill, in the same direction that Mr. Fields was heading. Still, there were vehicles in front of him that he surely could see that the counter-protesters were not molesting, so there was no need for panic.
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Did you ride down the hill with Google StreetView? If not, do it. From the top, see edit in my detailed post.
 
You do not drive a car, at any speed, into a group of people. Accident, my ass! There is nothing on his car to identify him as a neo-nazi. There are cars ahead of him that are not being molested. Had he just inched along like the other vehicles were trying to do, the crowd would have parted and gone around him. He chose to drive into the crowd by way of hitting another car and then intentionally (not accidentally) sped away in reverse, running over people on the way.

What reads "accident" about those actions? "Oops, I accidentally found myself in a group of people I'd probably rather not be amongst. Better floor it!"
 
Foolmewunz said:
What reads "accident" about those actions? "Oops, I accidentally found myself in a group of people I'd probably rather not be amongst. Better floor it!"
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If the car was struck before accelerating, and that triggered a flight reaction, I think that could broadly be referred to as negligent. I don't think it would count as accident.
 
Foolmewunz said:
...and then intentionally (not accidentally) sped away in reverse...
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And that's another point. He clearly had no problem just backing up, but for some reason he felt his first attempt to get away had to be through two cars and dozens of people? I'm sorry, but even I don't think a neo-Nazi is that easily panicked into such a brain-dead state.

This is just an attempt to diminish or distract from the threat posed by Nazi ideology by passing Mr. Fields off as just woefully incapable of dealing with minor anxiety.
 
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Elagabalus said:
I posted that link yesterday and it appears that the video has been changed slightly. It zooms in on the guy hitting the car and conveniently edits out the beginning when the car takes off showing the drivers intent. The car is already fully accelerating and the guy who strikes the car is, IMO, trying to get the attention of the driver and make the car slow down.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=322173
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Bad choice. When that happens a woman becomes deceased.
 
Cl1mh4224rd said:
Nobody, and I mean nobody not intensely interested in constructing an extremely dangerous delusion, can watch these clips and rationalize what they see as "self defense". All of you who are attempting a benefit of the doubt should be utterly ashamed of yourselves. You disgrace and pervert the very notion of rationality.

This was, without the glimmer of a doubt in any reasonable person's mind, a deliberate attempt to injure and/or kill people. There is no reasonable doubt here.
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* lot of evidence comes in the guy hasn't noticed and/or understood, as basic as the direction in which the crowd is going and that they are the wrong way up a one way street *

Cl1mh4224rd said:
This is just an attempt to diminish or distract from the threat posed by Nazi ideology by passing Mr. Fields off as just woefully incapable of dealing with minor anxiety.
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I don't even know what to write. Wouldn't be worth it anyway.
 
AJM8125 said:
No dog in this fight, but -

[qimg]http://i.imgur.com/ldg2nZv.jpg[/qimg]

He did brake and from the looks of car's posture, possibly swerving to avoid hitting the guy in the green shorts.

Maybe didn't want to kill a white guy. Who knows.
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Maybe one dude in shorts wasn't important enough when a tempting tangle of innocent targets loomed right ahead.
 
Childlike Empress said:
How so?
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Well, if he literally did not realize that he was about to hit a crowd, then it's not road rage.

However, that sounds a bit far fetched to me. The rest of your analysis, though, that he was angry already and found his way blocked by unorganized protesters seems reasonable, and it may be that he just decided to run into them because they made him mad.

In other words, to really understand what happened, we have to know his state of mind. Some options:

Hatred: I really hate liberals/*******/jews and I'm tired of them and I'm going to mow them down!
Anger: God dammit! Get out of my way! Take that!
Fear: Oh my God, they're trying to kill me! I can make a break for it through that crowd!
Cluelessness: Today really sucked, but these are some awesome tunes...and Oh ******

(Note: Counting on the autocensor here)

I guess we'll see which one his legal team goes with as the prosecution moves forward.
 
uke2se said:
Despicable Nazi terrorist apologetics in this thread.
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I think the guy is guilty as sin and it's obvious that he wanted to use the chaos of the moment to get away with a possibly lethal attack.

That being said the people who do not share my opinion, are certainly not nazi apologists, (for feeling differently on this issue) and there is a real sense of "if you are not with us you are against us" in this thread. People could be mistaken in how they interpret the evidence, and if so, show them to be wrong, but the group think is getting kinda scary. We are skeptics, let's act like it. The guy attacked people with a car, in an obvious fashion, if you don't have anything better than hyperbole and shame, maybe you havnt reviewed the evidence enough, and if this is the case you are making your judgement on faith not logic.
 
sadhatter said:
I think the guy is guilty as sin and it's obvious that he wanted to use the chaos of the moment to get away with a possibly lethal attack.

That being said the people who do not share my opinion, are certainly not nazi apologists, (for feeling differently on this issue) and there is a real sense of "if you are not with us you are against us" in this thread. People could be mistaken in how they interpret the evidence, and if so, show them to be wrong, but the group think is getting kinda scary. We are skeptics, let's act like it. The guy attacked people with a car, in an obvious fashion, if you don't have anything better than hyperbole and shame, maybe you havnt reviewed the evidence enough, and if this is the case you are making your judgement on faith not logic.
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The "Nazi Apologist" accusation needs to be seen in two separate fashions:
> A) There are avowed white supremacists in this thread who, surprise surprise, see nothing but excuses for Mr. Nazi Sympathizer Car Runner Down Person. It would be disingenuous to give them the benefit of the doubt we give to group B.)
> B) There are hardass conservatives in the thread who will accept any mealy-mouthed explanation for anything negative that anyone on the right does. It's not that they're aware that they're nazi apologists, they just have a kneejerk need to find fault with anything done by progressives, liberals, black or brown people, feminists, or Naom Chomsky. They can't help themselves, poor things. Pointing out that they are actually crossing over into Nazi Apologetics should be viewed as a service.
 
Foolmewunz said:
The "Nazi Apologist" accusation needs to be seen in two separate fashions:
> A) There are avowed white supremacists in this thread who, surprise surprise, see nothing but excuses for Mr. Nazi Sympathizer Car Runner Down Person. It would be disingenuous to give them the benefit of the doubt we give to group B.)
> B) There are hardass conservatives in the thread who will accept any mealy-mouthed explanation for anything negative that anyone on the right does. It's not that they're aware that they're nazi apologists, they just have a kneejerk need to find fault with anything done by progressives, liberals, black or brown people, feminists, or Naom Chomsky. They can't help themselves, poor things. Pointing out that they are actually crossing over into Nazi Apologetics should be viewed as a service.
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> C) There are some who wish to apply critical thinking in an attempt to unravel what may or may not have went down and to discuss it with other likeminded people, some of whom are participating here.

To offer either "avowed white supremacists" or "hardass conservatives in the thread who will accept any mealy-mouthed explanation for anything negative that anyone on the right does etc. etc." as the only explanations for anybody questioning the official story and public trail without jury of the driver, James Alex Fields Jr is somewhat limiting.
 
Meadmaker said:
Well, if he literally did not realize that he was about to hit a crowd, then it's not road rage.

However, that sounds a bit far fetched to me.
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Did you take the ride down the hill with Google StreetView (just go straight forward a couple of blocks)? This is one bad view. We know from the videos that he indeed approached with considerable speed. I can't see how he did that AND have time to make any conscious decision once he saw what was in front of him.

edit: The first thing I wondered about in the videos is how the hell did he get there with his car in the first place. Answer: No roads were closed, he and the cars he crashed into just drove there. No police anywhere, the demonstration was a "wild" one on streets with traffic, entering a narrow open one way street the other way.
 
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Skeptic Tank said:
Thought experiment I want you all to seriously do:

All the same events of that day happened, including this car incident, but the rally was a pro-equality, pro-diversity rally with a permit and it got stormed by these white nationalists / Nazis / etc.

There was combat in the streets but in this version, things are reversed so ... near the park .... Her Prius is facing a hundred or so white nationalist Nazi KKK types, ...

...and in the end, a 32 year old ... man is dead. ...

You're on the jury. How do you vote on murder 2?
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I clipped all the items of your story that have no parallel to the actual incident or are irrelevant (such as what shirt the driver wore, as this could not be seen behind the shaded windows).

I would vote for intentional homicide. As I previously said, I am not competent to go into the finer details of degrees and murder vs. manlaughter.
 
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