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Ed Dueling protests spark state of emergency in Virginia.

LSSBB said:
Nothing definitive can be determined from that picture. There is no immediate context of what led up to it and who did what and why.
ETA: Is that all you got?
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:eye-poppi

Well we can tell that a counterprotester is using a baton to hit a man in the head who is sprawled out on the ground.
 
Tommy Jeppesen said:
Okay, here is an idea.
Left versus "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" versus right.
You speak out against the right and I will take on the left and then we will meet in the middle as moderates.
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And then get run over by a neo-Nazi. Which is what happened here.

And then have the Presidential response to your getting run over be "well there's violence on both sides."
 
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NoahFence said:
Antifa = Anti Fascist. In other words, REAL AMERICANS. Get that through your thick skull.

dawg.
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You understand that almost all Antifa are not American and are opposed to US imperialism even when they are American? And Antifa was started by Italians in the 1920's.
 
caveman1917 said:
They were really playing nazi occupation force there apparently.
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This is a key thing. Both sides brought weapons - but only one side came prepared for actual military warfare. One side (Nazi) came with the weapons capable of killing a whole lot of people really fast, the other side (Antifa) brought pepper spray and sticks.

I'm no fan of antifa, I think initiating violence with Nazis just makes the Nazis happier, because Nazis love to fight. But I also think it is disingenuous to equate antifa with the Nazis.

Both sides can be wrong about some things, but the Nazi/KKK/Alt-Right side is vastly more wrong about more things, and right about almost nothing. The Antifa side is wrong on a few things but mostly right about most things.
 
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crescent said:
I'm no fan of antifa, I think initiating violence with Nazis just makes the Nazis happier, because Nazis love to fight.
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Any reason these thoughts should be considered as anything other than "idle thoughts of random person on the internet"? Because otherwise I'm still gonna go with the analysis by those who actually have decades of experience in opposing fascists worldwide.
 
This is fun.

caveman1917 said:
Any reason these thoughts should be considered as anything other than "idle thoughts of random person on the internet"? Because otherwise I'm still gonna go with the analysis by those who actually have decades of experience in opposing fascists worldwide.
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Any reason these thoughts should be considered as anything other than "idle thoughts of random person on the internet"? Because otherwise I'm still gonna go with the analysis by those who actually have decades of experience understanding the context of American culture and politics.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
And then get run over by a neo-Nazi. Which is what happened here.

And then have the Presidential response to your getting run over be "well there's violence on both sides."
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Okay, I will fight on your side and of course we win?!! Then what about the peace? It has been going on since the Civil War, more than 150 years. How do you propose we stop it for going into yet another round besides this one?
 
I think the correct Presidential response would have been very simple:

1. From what I can discern there was a lot more violence, intentional and premeditated, on the part of the Nazis, KKK, and their sympathizers, than on the part of their opponents. Nonetheless violence should not be tolerated in a democratic society whatever its motivation, and I have very little problem with Trump denouncing violence on both sides, although he should have make it clear that the violence was not equal and especially he should have recognized the death of the woman and the injuries of the others as a result of a direct terroristic act.

2. In contrast, one side, the Nazis, KKK, and their sympathizers, advocate evil, abhorrent, and disgusting ideas that run counter to and seek to overturn the very central principles of our country. These slimy excuses for human beings held this rally not only to advance these views but also to intimidate and threaten their fellow American citizens. They demeaned us all. The people opposing them were upholding our values (likely some of these anti-Nazis hold political views with which I disagree, views I would oppose should they hold their own rally, but here, in this context they, I, and their many mainstream co-demonstrators were joined in being anti-racism. They were supporting this core American value. The white supremacists were opposing it). Herein is the President's enormous moral and patriotic failure- the inability to see this difference and to speak up in support of our values, the American values that so many have died to preserve. And to speak up in support of the American citizens (his citizens) who are the target of these evil little ogres.

Of course the Nazis and KKK have the civil right to publicly rally (and I agree with the ACLU on this even though I am Jewish). But that does not mean they are morally correct or have the right to not be condemned and denounced at all levels for their abhorrent views.

3. Every time Trump read through his pro forma and obviously insincere statements saying that of course he was against Nazis and the KKK, it was even more obvious that his heart was not in it and he was speaking under duress, like a little kid hurried off by his ear to his neighbor's house to apologize for egging his door. Trump's true feelings were made only too clear by the contrast between his perfunctory manner and brief anti Nazi comments versus his repeated, lengthy, and emotional statements seeking to blame the counter-demonstrators as well as the white supremacists and to reiterate many of the white supremacists talking points. Many of the white supremacists understood this very well and were happy for the support.

4. Finally- were there really "good people" on the white supremacist side of the march? Reminds me of the Burke quote is, "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. " Worse here these "good people" were not doing nothing- they were marching with the Nazis! It was not as if the white supremacists somehow infiltrated a march by mainstream citizens and hijacked their legitimate causes. This was a rally organized by white supremacists, Nazis, and the KKK, publicized as such, and dominated by speeches and banners invoking their views; it is ridiculous to suggest that those who joined them were not aware of, or didn't support, these views.
 
"We hate blacks, Jews, gays, muslims, and immigrants and think they should be cleansed from our streets"

And

"We hate those who hate blacks, Jews, gays, muslims, and immigrants and want them cleansed from or streets"

Are not the same.

Like how locking someone up in jail who kidnapped and held a person in their cellar isn't the same.
 
crescent said:
This is fun.



Any reason these thoughts should be considered as anything other than "idle thoughts of random person on the internet"? Because otherwise I'm still gonna go with the analysis by those who actually have decades of experience understanding the context of American culture and politics.
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And who would that be?
 
The Big Dog said:
No actually we are not, we are talking about "dueling protests" and now some have the misguided notion that the antifa and Black Bloc are the "good guys" despite the obvious fact that they came to Virginia, Berkeley, Texas, Seattle, etc to brawl and do violence.
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We're discussing "dueling protests in Charlotteville". You're trying to distract by Tu Quoqing, as usual. There are threads on those topics.

And I think we can settle on the obvious. "Antifa" is short fo "Anti-Fascist". So, yeah. They are the good guys. Fascists not good; fascists bad.

/ btw; Don't misuse my forum name.
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You're funny, if unintentionally so. Dawg is a common form of address where I come from, fella. Fella is a common form of address, too. Dude, you just happen to have picked a forum name that includes three everyday words, one of which is a common form of address amongst us swinging big city progressive hipsters. Live with it, bro. You got that, homes?
 
The_Animus said:
"We hate blacks, Jews, gays, muslims, and immigrants and think they should be cleansed from our streets"

And

"We hate those who hate blacks, Jews, gays, muslims, and immigrants and want them cleansed from or streets"

Are not the same.

Like how locking someone up in jail who kidnapped and held a person in their cellar isn't the same.
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Do you have to hate?
 
Skeptic Tank said:
You use whatever words you want to for it, but you cannot actually expect whites to sit back and quietly take it as the culture and society not only slip away from them and from their control but more than that, actually turn increasingly anti-white.
.....
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The basic flaw in your thinking is to equate "culture and society" with "white." Who best exemplifies American culture and ideals: Barrack and Michelle Obama, or Donald and Melania Trump?

Case closed.
 
The_Animus said:
"We hate blacks, Jews, gays, muslims, and immigrants and think they should be cleansed from our streets"

And

"We hate those who hate blacks, Jews, gays, muslims, and immigrants and want them cleansed from or streets"

Are not the same.

Like how locking someone up in jail who kidnapped and held a person in their cellar isn't the same.
Click to expand...

Good analogy. I think I'll steal it.
 
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