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Ed Dueling protests spark state of emergency in Virginia.

uke2se said:
I said that there are no such things as alt-left or alt-whatever. Alt-right exists. You aren't replying to anything I wrote.
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Let me explain how it works. I claim that something is possible in a nomological sense. You deny that it is even nomologically possible and then it ends before it starts.
If I am to make arguments and give evidence, then you must be willing to consider them as relevant, if this is to proceed.
 
Tommy Jeppesen said:
Let me explain how it works. I claim that something is possible in a nomological sense. You deny that it is even nomologically possible and then it ends before it starts.
If I am to make arguments and give evidence, then you must be willing to consider them as relevant, if this is to proceed.
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It's not relevant to refer to anything called "alt-left". It doesn't exist.
 
Childlike Empress said:
Remember you argued against my claim that torch marches are as such free speech.
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True, but your claim wasn't made in a contextual vacuum. If you literally meant that walking around with a torch is not, in and of itself, anything other than free speech then sure, I have no argument against that.

But the event under consideration is not just any old family visit to the traditional Sint-Maarten vigil. It's groups of violent neo-nazis whose use of the torch-lit march format is nothing but one aspect of their intimidation strategy and who will, beyond just the marching with torches, employ physical violence as another intimidation aspect.

Sankt Martin marches are no security risk no matter if they are taking place in Germany, Belgium, Kiev or the Donetsk People's Republic.
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Yes, but the picture I showed you was a bunch of Bandera-supporters having one of those "intimidation torch-marches" (I don't know if in/surrounding this particular one they also attacked people, I just quickly pulled the pic of google, but it wouldn't be surprising since it's a regular occurrence like elsewhere). And I think you know as well as I do that if they were to try doing that in Donetsk, especially if they also started attacking "them filthy colorado beetles" surrounding the march, they wouldn't last 5 minutes.
 
Tommy Jeppesen said:
Yes. :)

The idea that non-direct and non-concrete context violent speech should be limited can be misused.
I defend your right to disagree with me, because if I don't defend that, it can be take away from us both and I don't want that to happen for either of us.
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I like this.

Well put,
 
uke2se said:
It's not relevant to refer to anything called "alt-left". It doesn't exist.
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Now you have made a negative claim, which is provable through evidence. So as much as I have made a claim, which requires evidence, so have you.
Not you have given any arguments nor evidence, only a dogmatic claim, namely "It doesn't exist".
That is not how reason, logic, arguments and evidence works.
 
Tommy Jeppesen said:
Now you have made a negative claim, which is provable through evidence. So as much as I have made a claim, which requires evidence, so have you.
Not you have given any arguments nor evidence, only a dogmatic claim, namely "It doesn't exist".
That is not how reason, logic, arguments and evidence works.
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It doesn't exist. I can't prove that negative. If you can prove to me that there is any organisation called the "alt-left", and that it has anything to do with what we are discussing in this thread, go right ahead and I'll consider it. Until such a time, I'm considering this a diversion and a derail.

This thread is about how a Nazi-sympathizer occupies the White House while brown-shirts are killing people in the streets. All the while, you sit patting your back over how pro-free speech you are. Good for you.
 
trustbutverify said:
What if the working class supports the Nazis and holocaust denial? What if the working class has been fed a never ending diet of crypto Nazi websites like Veterans Today and the like, and have fallen in love with Donald Trump?
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Then blame the liberals and other moderate right-wingers. They're the ones who are presenting the working class with false dilemmas where they pretend to be the alternative to the right. If all you present the working class is a choice between Washington Post/CNN/... and crypto-fascist publications then no wonder they'll go for the crypto-fascist ones. If you go around with people like Hillary Clinton pretending her to be "the left" and the only alternative to Trump, then no wonder they all flock to Trump.
 
uke2se said:
It doesn't exist. I can't prove that negative. If you can prove to me that there is any organisation called the "alt-left", and that it has anything to do with what we are discussing in this thread, go right ahead and I'll consider it. Until such a time, I'm considering this a diversion and a derail.

This thread is about how a Nazi-sympathizer occupies the White House while brown-shirts are killing people in the streets. All the while, you sit patting your back over how pro-free speech you are. Good for you.
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Currently the alt-right as racism is the worst thread to these USA, but historically it is not the only.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground

It seems that you look only at the present and view the world in this manner (maybe):
Left, moderate, right, hard/alt-right and think that it is not possible to be against these USA other than through racism and/or religion.

So you prove that there is no alt/hard-left by looking. I did that and found an alt/hard-left by looking, so yes I could disprove your negative by finding a positive.
 
Tommy Jeppesen said:
Currently the alt-right as racism is the worst thread to these USA, but historically it is not the only.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground

It seems that you look only at the present and view the world in this manner (maybe):
Left, moderate, right, hard/alt-right and think that it is not possible to be against these USA other than through racism and/or religion.

So you prove that there is no alt/hard-left by looking. I did that and found an alt/hard-left by looking, so yes I could disprove your negative by finding a positive.
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Have you found an "alt-left" yet? That's what you were saying existed.

I'll wait.
 
Oh FFS, drop the pedantic BS.

There is no such thing as "alt-left." It's a term made up by the alt-right to enable bothsidesist apologetics. There surely are extremist groups on the left, but they aren't "alt-left" and this event in particular wasn't defined by their presence as it was the alt-right. This was Nazis vs people who couldn't abide Nazis.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
Oh FFS, drop the pedantic BS.

There is no such thing as "alt-left." It's a term made up by the alt-right to enable bothsidesist apologetics. There surely are extremist groups on the left, but they aren't "alt-left" and this event in particular wasn't defined by their presence as it was the alt-right. This was Nazis vs people who couldn't abide Nazis.
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Precisely.
 
caveman1917 said:
Then blame the liberals and other moderate right-wingers. They're the ones who are presenting the working class with false dilemmas where they pretend to be the alternative to the right. If all you present the working class is a choice between Washington Post/CNN/... and crypto-fascist publications then no wonder they'll go for the crypto-fascist ones. If you go around with people like Hillary Clinton pretending her to be "the left" and the only alternative to Trump, then no wonder they all flock to Trump.
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How about you guys wake up to the idea of paying taxes for, among other things, quality state-provided education with curriculums that promote critical examinations of texts and ideas?
 
uke2se said:
Have you found an "alt-left" yet? That's what you were saying existed.

I'll wait.
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So if the alt-right is defined by wanting to take away rights for "reasons", the alt-left is defined by wanting to take away rights for "other reasons".

The "reasons" are different, but the effect is the same. To take away rights currently in effect these USA.
 
Tommy Jeppesen said:
So if the alt-right is defined by wanting to take away rights for "reasons", the alt-left is defined by wanting to take away rights for "other reasons".

The "reasons" are different, but the effect is the same. To take away rights currently in effect these USA.
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The alt-right is defined by themselves. They named themselves the "alt-right".

You are claiming that there is a similar organisation on the left. Prove it.
 
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