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Ed Dueling protests spark state of emergency in Virginia.

phiwum said:
[1] I have no opinion about the fact they aren't allowed to do so in Germany. I understand that the issue is, charitably speaking, complicated and Germany tain't my country so I'm loathe to criticize their choices.
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As maybe the only German with sympathy for the radical US free speech approach on board, and from recent conversations with not only my mom about 80-years old "holocaust denier" Horst Mahler who is now back in prison after he was released because of a medical problem that cost him a leg (and he blamed on the lack of care in prison) and then refused to go back fleeing to Hungary (who have enough problems with the EU to protect a "holocaust denier"), I can tell you that it's indeed our (not mine) choice and how we like it, make of it what you want.
 
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phiwum said:
Here's one example:

Suppose that Party A expresses horrible claims, such terrible claims that it is predictable that Party B will react violently. Then Party A didn't incite violence in the legal sense, since Party A didn't encourage an act of violence, even though violence was a predictable result of their speech.
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If anti-fascists would stay away then neo-nazis would be non-violent. How likely does that statement sound to you?

Just wanted to be sure that my position was clear. I don't deny supporting the right of Nazis to express their views in the US.[1]
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If you support that right, and if it is true that Nazis expressing their views this way entails their use of political violence[*], do you then support the right of Nazis to engage in political violence?

If you're going to say no and argue based on * not being true, do you have evidence of it not being true? If not, why are you not withholding judgement on this until you have such evidence?
 
Childlike Empress said:
As maybe the only German with sympathy for the radical US free speech approach on board, and from recent conversations with not only my mom about 80-years old "holocaust denier" Horst Mahler who is now back in prison after he was released because of a medical problem that cost him a leg (and he blamed on the lack of care in prison) and then refused to go back fleeing to Hungary (who have enough problems with the EU to protect a "holocaust denier"), I can tell you that it's indeed our (not mine) choice and how we like it, make of it what you want.
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There's a difference between locking up someone for denying the holocaust and letting nazis roam around in torch-lit mobs. I agree that people shouldn't be locked up merely for denying the holocaust, but when groups of nazis try to take the streets they should be opposed. Though I suppose that's not so much a task for the state as for the working class.
 
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crescent said:
I am familiar with Skeptic Tank - but dudalb was quoting Captain Howdy.

I don't want to read too much into it - it would be best for Captain Howdy to explain the seriousness (or lack thereof) in that post.

(ETA: I could have sworn Giordano said "Skeptic Tank". Maybe my sarcasm meter is not the only thing that is broken. I am not familiar much with Captain Howdy's posting history)
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Captain Howdy is a Neo-Nazi, and a "Holohoax" advocate.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
I don't know about the rest of you, but my estimation of Trump is low enough to be improved, however marginally, by him eventually capitulating and doing the right thing. "Too little, too late" is still better than nothing and it's more than I expected of him.

So you know what? Good job, Donnie. Hopefully you won't need to be shamed into it next time.
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Aaaand we're back.
 
btw, I checked up with what the Stormer crowd is doing now. They opened a TOR hidden service which kind of works but doesn't even load the CSS, let alone the forums etc. And to their clueless fans who advise them to go to Russia or Nigeria (LOL), they say very clearly that if it isn't in the US, no home will be able to host them even temporarily given the pressure, the smaller the more vulnerable, no due process. So if the Daily Stormer will not come back, Free Speech on the internet died, as it is like pregnancy, yes or no. I'm on the side of how repulsive it can be, relax and don't politicize all tech companies and prosecute crimes where they ocure.
 
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caveman1917 said:
If anti-fascists would stay away then neo-nazis would be non-violent. How likely does that statement sound to you?
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Yes, that sounds true. What is your point?


If you support that right, and if it is true that Nazis expressing their views this way entails their use of political violence[*], do you then support the right of Nazis to engage in political violence?

If you're going to say no and argue based on * not being true, do you have evidence of it not being true? If not, why are you not withholding judgement on this until you have such evidence?
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It is trivial to point out that Nazis can express their views without the use of political violence. For instance, had the demonstration ended Friday night, the Charlottesville episode would be one such example.[1]

Expressing political views does not entail the use of violence in any situation I can imagine. Some views may encourage or even incite violence (in the latter case, it is not protected speech), but I can't think of any situation in which expressing one's views literally entails violence.

I have this impression that you are acquainted with logical expressions. Otherwise, I would not harp on the use of "entails". If you meant it much, much more liberally than its usual meaning, please let me know.

[1] As far as I know, although there were verbal confrontations Friday night, there was no physical violence. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
 
It has reached the point where I no longer want Trump just to be forced out of office,but to have to do a Game Of THrones style "walk of shame" after being outed....
 
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