Ed Dueling protests spark state of emergency in Virginia.

[Delphic Oracle]

I don't particularly care about your crappy liberal rationalizations for collaboration, I just find it odd that someone first had to actually die before people apparently understand that giving nazis the "right" to publicly recruit for and organize their project is pretty stupid, to say the least.

Au contraire.

Much like the ISIS playbook, this spikes recruitment.

If it's a big nothing-burger and the cameras pack up and leave after taking some b-roll of dudebros in khakis and polos with tiki torches showing their mean faces, that story is a blip mention at the top of the hour for half a day.

 

[Oystein]

There is no difference between the two

Nonsense.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Steve Bannon

This guy's guy to be the biggest imaginary racist of all time. His name is always trotted out as a "zinger" to show how racist everyone/everything is these days, but when you start to look into it, everything evaporates. I've issued this challenge before, but can you provide any racist quotes from Mr. Bannon?

Mother Jones: Is Steve Bannon Racist? Let’s Find Out!

New Republic: Steve Bannon is absolutely culpable for Breitbart’s racism, sexism, and anti-Semitism.

Newt Gingrich tried to argue otherwise on Monday, telling Fox & Friends it’s “baloney” to fault President-elect Donald Trump’s “chief strategist” for stories published under his tenure as executive chairman of the news outlet, including “Bill Kristol: Republican Spoiler, Renegade Jew” and “Birth Control Makes Women Unattractive and Crazy.”

Slate: How Some Outlets Are Avoiding Calling Steve Bannon a Racist Propagandist

I vote yes.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

FBI and DHS Warned of Growing Threat From White Supremacists Months Ago

In response to this warning the Trump administration cut funding for groups that counter violent white supremacy.

Ehh... I need to point out that the second article, the one you characterize as reporting on the Trump administration's response to the report described in the first article, is dated May 4th, while the FBI and DHS report is dated May 10th.

I don't know what kind of "heads up" the Trump administration would have gotten about that report, though, so the cut in funding may have indeed been a response.

Dammit, I am torn by this; I Don't like illegal destruction of public property, but am glad another monument to Treason and Racism is gone...althout I would much rather have seen it done by legal means.

I think it is very important that the government, the system, be the one that takes them down.

That's my general feeling. But this...

Agreed. When it's taken down legally and retired to a museum of Civil War related artifacts, it's "the will of the people to put this shameful memory behind us, but not forget the lessons." When a mob topples it over, it's just fueling resentment and a feeling of increasing retributive violence.

...is not the reasoning I would use. I'm not sure you can get a more direct example of "will of the people" than the actual people taking it upon themselves to do a thing. Sure, it's a small number, but it is sort of an assumption that a government only does a thing based on the majority's desire. That government action doesn't generally align with this assumption is a bit of a thing these days. (ETA: Yes, I realize that can apply just as well to the alt-right/neo-Nazis from this past weekend.)

 

[BobTheCoward]

Nonsense.

The only thing to distinguish it is when someone else's ox is being gored.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

That's my general feeling. But this...




...is not the reasoning I would use. I'm not sure you can get a more direct example of "will of the people" than the actual people taking it upon themselves to do a thing. Sure, it's a small number, but it is sort of an assumption that a government only does a thing based on the majority's desire. That government action doesn't generally align with this assumption is a bit of a thing these days. (ETA: Yes, I realize that can apply just as well to the alt-right/neo-Nazis from this past weekend.)

As a capstone moment to a long public push to have them removed. Given how much of a lumbering behemoth government often is, to see it's heavy equipment machines (the collective assets of the public trust) lift the statue away and drive off on a flatbed, go at the base with jackhammers, hard hats of city workers, etc. Have a bandstand and some barbeque. Optics.

I suppose if its publicized and understood that the toppling moment will be some important neighborhood civil rights figures or something, that could work also. But the pure emotional imulsive version seems less 'legitimate' to me, or at least invites criticism so readily as to wish it had been more deliberative.

I also think there's an appropriate place for them in Museums, so why damage them?

 

[Foolmewunz]

There is no difference between the two

Nonsense.

The only thing to distinguish it is when someone else's ox is being gored.

Double nonsense. You have apparently never taken part in either a riot (random mob violence) or an organized act of civil disobedience (planned and executed with the intention of getting arrested).

I've been at both and there's a distinct difference between the two.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Double nonsense. You have apparently never taken part in either a riot (random mob violence) or an organized act of civil disobedience (planned and executed with the intention of getting arrested).

I've been at both and there's a distinct difference between the two.

The first thing you'll notice is the smell is quite different...

But yes, absolutely, and a distinction lost on anyone who's familiarity with civil disobedience is a news channel that is 'in the thick of it' 2 blocks behind police barricades and reading quotes from twitter.

Dear god the emotional energy it takes to keep a crowd happy and lighthearted instead of increasingly agitated and paranoid.

I'll also again refer to the excellent Vice livestream the night of the Ferguson announcement. People living in the neighborhoods along West Florrisant, who had attended the protest at city hall (confusing, as that was on North Florrisant, a street running roughly parallel to the former on the opposite side of town) and left when the orders to disperse were called out. They were now walking along surveying the destruction of what was essentially their 'main drag'. They said the people doing the vandalism and looting were strangers, out of towners. Look at a lot of the major (violent) protests of any stripe, yes even including my once-beloved Occupy, there's often an alarmingly high number of visitors and travelers arrested.

 

[JoeMorgue]

The only thing to distinguish it is when someone else's ox is being gored.

Would you please take this fetish for hijacking threads by denying the concept of motivation or base behavioral cause and effect exists that you seem to have to a thread that isn't talking about literal Nazis.

I don't know where this weird "nobody is really honest about their intentions and just do things at random" strain of hipster nihilistic contrarianism that has hit the social discourse in the last few years came from but it needs to go back there.

People do things for reasons. Actions have causes and context and motivation.

 

[Mumbles]

Dammit, I am torn by this; I Don't like illegal destruction of public property, but am glad another monument to Treason and Racism is gone...althout I would much rather have seen it done by legal means.

Also..um, safety.

Sorry but as an engineer - I like the picture of that statue just folding up when it landed, but my mind does run towards "That could have hit someone."

 

[JoeMorgue]

Also I give it like... a day before a statue of a civil rights leader or prominent democrat gets destroyed in retaliation.

The "2017 Statue Destruction Arms Race of They Started It" is not what we need right now.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Also I give it like... a day before a statue of a civil rights leader or prominent democrat gets destroyed in retaliation.

The "2017 Statue Destruction Arms Race of They Started It" is not what we need right now.

Oh, I don't know. The Trumpers murdered a protester. Anti-white-supremacists destroyed a statue. Maybe the Trumpers will think it's even now.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Double nonsense. You have apparently never taken part in either a riot (random mob violence) or an organized act of civil disobedience (planned and executed with the intention of getting arrested).

I've been at both and there's a distinct difference between the two.

I didn't.mean generally but tearing down statues. As an aside, the people who tore the statue down did not intend to be arrested. So the person's argument on the last page.rhat it is civil disobedience doesn't match.

 

[The Big Dog]

Oh, I don't know. The Trumpers murdered a protester. Anti-white-supremacists destroyed a statue. Maybe the Trumpers will think it's even now.

And someone shot up a practice field full of republican congress members.

 

[Mumbles]

Also I give it like... a day before a statue of a civil rights leader or prominent democrat gets destroyed in retaliation.

The "2017 Statue Destruction Arms Race of They Started It" is not what we need right now.

Some jackass already tried to trash the Holocaust Memorial in Boston - and were very quickly caught.

ETA: although, really, compared to beating people with poles, or plowing your car into a group of people who did nothing to you...

 

[Checkmite]

Intel and UnderArmour have also resigned from Trump's "American Manufacturing Council", joining Merck.

 

[The Don]

I mentioned in another thread how the decision of the Neo Confedrates to accept the support of the Neo Nazis was a huge,disasterous blunder for them. It has really made the whole
Heritage Not Hate" routine a joke.

It assumes that they care. The people to whom the Neo Confederates are marketing probably don't mind whether they are in bed with the Neo Nazis, heck it might save them an annual subscription if they only have to join one, and not both, organisations.

 

[The Don]

END OF HATE: ANONYMOUS NOW IN CONTROL OF DAILY STORMER

So, was it an inside job, did Anonymous do it, or was it some third party making a poor job of hacking in Anonymous' name ?

My personal view is that the first is the most likely, the third the next most likely and the second the least likely.

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/08/14/anon_daily_stormer/

 

[Checkmite]

Apparently Alex Jones is saying the Charlottesville nazis were "Jewish actors".

 

[Mumbles]

Apparently Alex Jones is saying the Charlottesville nazis were "Jewish actors".

No shock.

By the way - put these dudes in cop uniforms instead of screaming racial slurs and waving rods and shields. Let them drive up and instantly shoot a black kid. Or toss a dude into a metal box and shake it around and pull him out dead. Or choke a big dude out.

Plenty of people here would cheer.

No real difference, though.