Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories V: Five for Fighting

[HSienzant]

The $1 bill in Oswald's wallet was not only unique in the fact that it was torn, but that it had "300" written on it.

Just like the "180" and "221" notation written on the DPD "half bill" note: http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/22/2288-001.gif

Where does it say the '180' and '221' are written on the bills?

Or are you just presuming what you need to prove once more?

We do not know where these "half bills" were found, or who found them.

We can, however, eliminate them from being in Oswald's wallet at the time of his arrest. And we can eliminate them from being among Oswald's possessions seized by the DPD after Oswald's arrest.

Maybe somebody could compare the handwriting to the handwriting of other relevant DPD officers?

Why? You don't accept handwriting analysis as a valid expertise, I thought.

If these three-digit numbers were part of a hypothetical system for secretly contacting people, then you would want it to already be written on the $1 bills before meeting your contact, otherwise you would be wasting time. Would you expect Oswald to remember to bring along a pencil write "300" on his designated $1 bill when meeting a contact? That wastes time. Secrets need to be exchanged fast.

Why? If they are meeting in a movie theatre, as you've suggested in the past, they've got a whole double feature to talk through. You're just talking through your hat once more.

And if the '300' has any meaning to the recipient, someone must have told him to expect someone to give him a half dollar bill with the notation '300' on it beforehand. But why a half dollar bill with that notation? Why not just a plain sheet of paper torn in half with the notation? Or a code word like 'swordfish'? What's the point of giving a half-dollar bill to someone you've never seen before? And if you've seen them before and you recognize them, why exchange anything the second time?

All this would indicate is that maybe Oswald knew that something important was to occur on 11/22/1963. It doesn't approach evidence of guilt in the actual murder.

Hilarious. His weapon left on the sixth floor tells you all you need to know.

But that's questionable as to whether it's his, right?

Whereas these two half dollar bills, with no provenance, are both unquestionably his, right?

Hank

 

[HSienzant]

The same problem applies to the repeated, consistent statements of autopsy doctor and forensic pathologist Dr. Finck.. yadda yadda... Also consider that the repeated, consistent statements of Dr. Humes and Dr. Boswell ... yadda yadda...

Thank you for telling us exactly why your theory about the low shot is untenable. I find the above a succinct and well-written summation of some of the arguments against your EOP location head shot.

Only if you want to say the EOP wound and the large head wound were created by one bullet.

I'm sorry, I have no expertise in that area. But the three pathologists you just named up thread (Humes, Finck, and Boswell) -- why don't you tell us what they concluded about that? They all concluded that the rear entry wound and the large head wound were created by one bullet, didn't they?

Thanks for providing yet another reason why your theory is untenable.

Hank

 

[OKBob]

A kind of "rosetta stone" for understanding that there is something seriously wrong with the official shooting scenario is the EOP wound.

One problem, MJ, is that you misuse words, phrases, and concepts, as with "mundane" earlier. Here, you misapply the concept of the Rosetta Stone--a stone tablet with the same decree written in Ancient Egyptian hieroglyphic script, Demotic script, and Ancient Greek. These juxtaposed languages proved a key for deciphering hieroglyphics, but you use the term to hype an unqualified, outlier medical opinion (yours) that has not persuaded anyone on this list and that ignores the vast consilience of the evidence against Oswald. Even if your EOP point had merit, you haven't tried, despite much urging, to integrate and reconcile it with the other evidence. So it can't be, metaphorically, a Rosetta Stone. It doesn't even explain itself, let alone any other data. It's mundane anomaly-hunting.

 

[Axxman300]

All this would indicate is that maybe Oswald knew that something important was to occur on 11/22/1963. It doesn't approach evidence of guilt in the actual murder.

Yes, Oswald knew something was going to happen on 11/22/63 - he was going to shoot the President.

He'd been planning this from the day he found out JFK was coming to Dallas, and that the parade route went right past the TSBD.

Torn dollar bills mean nothing in this case because we don't know how he came to have them. In 1963 a dollar bill went a long way for a many who didn't make a lot of money. He could have found it, he could have torn it by accident, and was planning to exchange it for a new one at a bank. It could have been his lucky dollar, maybe it was a bookmark.

The torn dollar is immaterial, the 14 dollars he spent for the Carcano is all that matters...the Carcano he posed with in two photographs...the Carcano he used to kill Kennedy...the Carcano he ditched on the 6th floor of the TSBD as he fled...the Carcano that fired the 6.5x52mm rounds...the rounds solely responsible for the wounds inflicted on JFK and Connally...

 

[bknight]

I don't think he can lower his IQ that far. The bullets struck right where they say they did, and it's all on film.



You have not seen the autopsy photographs in their entirety. The ones available to the public are lower resolution B-roll, and not the 35mm color. So you begin a statement based on a lie, and go down hill from there.

Four or more inches above the actual entry point would mean the shooter fired straight down, presumable while defying gravity, which is a new one.
The problem is that the entry wound is visible on the Zapruder film, and it lines up with the 6th floor of the TSBD.



This is where you talk in circles, and make assumptions based on your poor ability to grasp the obvious.




This is a lie.

We have provided multiple links to both Humes and Finck, and they both say the skull cap was sawed open. You have even posted photos where the skin on the forehead is visibly rolled down indicating that the skull was sawed.



The grown-ups call it cavitation, and it caused the damage we see in the Zapruder film. This is where your ignorance about ballistics and all things bang-bang start to grate.



You've never seen the official photos so how do you know what they show?



One can also see the entry wound in the Zapruder Film, so you're stuck with it.



Yes, it's called a 6.5x52mm round, and it's more than capapble - it's exclusive to the wounds of the President and the governor.



Which would be dumb since there is no such thing.



Likely option in what universe? In this one we have gravity, and laws of physics that tell us that for that to be possible the shot would have have to come from at least the 20th floor...you might see the flaw in this option.




No, not when the single bullet is a 6.5x52mm fired from less than 300 feet away.



Which didn't happen.



Nope. Just a 6.5x52mm round that was still accelerating when it struck the back of the skull.

Man this is hilarious.

These are great summations, if only MJ would stick to the evidence not what he "believes"

 

[BStrong]

These are great summations, if only MJ would stick to the evidence not what he "believes"

MJ is working off what somebody has come up with wrt the assassination that he believes - it's not MJ's work involving his training and experience.

 

[Imhotep]

Oswald also had a half a torn box top with "Cox’s, Fort Worth" written on it.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340292/m1/1/

CIA chief David Atlee Phillips wrote in The Night Watch: 25 Years of Peculiar Service (1977) that he would often meet a contact in a movie theater and use a special object to confirm their identity.

https://books.google.com/books?id=W...page&q=spy technique half dollar bill&f=false

The FBI used torn dollar bills to meet contacts, each party bringing half of the same bill.

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/fun-games/kids/how-we-investigate-text-version

Oswald could have been playing at being a spy, which would discount the significance of the box top and dollars.

(no reference - my speculation)

 

[bknight]

MJ is working off what somebody has come up with wrt the assassination that he believes - it's not MJ's work involving his training and experience.

Guilt by association, he may not have done the work but he has neither refuted or admonished it.

 

[Belz...]

Oswald also had a half a torn box top with "Cox’s, Fort Worth" written on it.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340292/m1/1/

CIA chief David Atlee Phillips wrote in The Night Watch: 25 Years of Peculiar Service (1977) that he would often meet a contact in a movie theater and use a special object to confirm their identity.

https://books.google.com/books?id=W...page&q=spy technique half dollar bill&f=false

The FBI used torn dollar bills to meet contacts, each party bringing half of the same bill.

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/fun-games/kids/how-we-investigate-text-version

Oswald could have been playing at being a spy, which would discount the significance of the box top and dollars.

(no reference - my speculation)

It's entirely possible that Oswald was hired or otherwise convinced by another party to carry out his deed. It still doesn't change the fact that he was the only shooter. I don't think we'll ever know if a conspiracy was involved, but from ignorance we can't conclude existence.

 

[HSienzant]

Oswald also had a half a torn box top with "Cox’s, Fort Worth" written on it.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340292/m1/1/

The description says: "Top of a cardboard box with 'Cox's Fort Worth' printed on top" -- nothing about half a box top.

CIA chief David Atlee Phillips wrote in The Night Watch: 25 Years of Peculiar Service (1977) that he would often meet a contact in a movie theater and use a special object to confirm their identity.

https://books.google.com/books?id=W...page&q=spy technique half dollar bill&f=false

We covered this with Micah Java.

The FBI used torn dollar bills to meet contacts, each party bringing half of the same bill.
https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/fun-games/kids/how-we-investigate-text-version

We covered this with Micah Java.

Oswald could have been playing at being a spy, which would discount the significance of the box top and dollars. (no reference - my speculation)

Already been suggested, thanks. There is only one bill -- and that one is only partially torn at that -- that can be connected to Oswald. The other two Micah Java brought into the conversation can't be connected to Oswald in any manner. There is no 'dollars', and no 'half a box top'. The one partially torn bill could have been received already damaged as change. There is no need to invoke Oswald playing at spy games. Who hasn't received a slightly damaged bill in change for a purchase at some point? Why exclude the most reasonable and mundane explanation?

Hank

 

[Imhotep]

It's entirely possible that Oswald was hired or otherwise convinced by another party to carry out his deed. It still doesn't change the fact that he was the only shooter. I don't think we'll ever know if a conspiracy was involved, but from ignorance we can't conclude existence.

Agreed. I don't think he was hired, but possibly convinced or encouraged.

I think it's still worthy of pursuing. There are a few documents pending release that could shed some light on things.

 

[RoboTimbo]

I can see it coming up in casual conversation with Oswald's vast circle of like-minded friends, possibly all the members of the Fair Play for Cuba committee, but did he need convincing or encouraging? Not being totally facetious, but simply talking about it doesn't rise to conspiracy level.

 

[Imhotep]

I can see it coming up in casual conversation with Oswald's vast circle of like-minded friends, possibly all the members of the Fair Play for Cuba committee, but did he need convincing or encouraging? Not being totally facetious, but simply talking about it doesn't rise to conspiracy level.

I don't know if he needed encouragement, that's a question for an expert on Oswald's personality.

Extreme speculation alert...

There's a possibility he was encouraged by someone connected to CIA. Like an AMOT (A Cuban trained by David Morales to be part of the new Cuban intelligence service once Castro had been ousted).

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/cryptdb.php?id=AMOT

That would most likely constitute a small conspiracy.

 

[HSienzant]

I don't know if he needed encouragement, that's a question for an expert on Oswald's personality.

Extreme speculation alert...

There's a possibility he was encouraged by someone connected to CIA. Like an AMOT (A Cuban trained by David Morales to be part of the new Cuban intelligence service once Castro had been ousted).

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/cryptdb.php?id=AMOT

That would most likely constitute a small conspiracy.

Please post the evidence Oswald even knew anyone connected to the CIA. Being debriefed upon returning to the U. S. after travel overseas doesn't count as being connected.

We'll wait.

Hank

 

[RoboTimbo]

I don't know if he needed encouragement, that's a question for an expert on Oswald's personality.

Extreme speculation alert...

There's a possibility he was encouraged by someone connected to CIA. Like an AMOT (A Cuban trained by David Morales to be part of the new Cuban intelligence service once Castro had been ousted).

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/cryptdb.php?id=AMOT

Once it rises to the level of conspiracy, then we also need compelling evidence to go with it.

That would most likely constitute a small conspiracy.

Like being a little bit pregnant.

 

[MicahJava]

Oswald also had a half a torn box top with "Cox’s, Fort Worth" written on it.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340292/m1/1/

CIA chief David Atlee Phillips wrote in The Night Watch: 25 Years of Peculiar Service (1977) that he would often meet a contact in a movie theater and use a special object to confirm their identity.

https://books.google.com/books?id=W...page&q=spy technique half dollar bill&f=false

The FBI used torn dollar bills to meet contacts, each party bringing half of the same bill.

https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/fun-games/kids/how-we-investigate-text-version

Oswald could have been playing at being a spy, which would discount the significance of the box top and dollars.

(no reference - my speculation)

Precisely. Also, I think "Cox's, Forth Worth" must be referring to the well-known department store which once existed. Cox's department store, Forth Worth, Texas. Oswald's mother, Marguerite Oswald, worked as a cashier at Cox's department store years before. Wonder how that connects to anything.

From John Armstrong's Harvey And Lee:

The police took $13.87 in cash from Oswald, a black belt, a brass key, an ID bracelet, and two items which appear to be out of place. One of those items was a check stub from the American Bakeries Company, dated August 22. 1960.Nov22'23-02'03'04'05 The payroll check was issued to James A. Jackson, but why did Oswald have a 3-year-old check "stub" in his pocket on November 22?

The second item was a -small box top bearing the name "Cox's, Fort Worth."3 Why was Oswald carrying this box top in his pocket on November 22?

NOTE: These items appear insignificant until we remember that Oswald changed both his shirt and his pants after arriving at his rooming house. It appears that Oswald intentionally took both of these items with him, but their importance remains a mystery.

 

[MicahJava]

It's entirely possible that Oswald was hired or otherwise convinced by another party to carry out his deed. It still doesn't change the fact that he was the only shooter. I don't think we'll ever know if a conspiracy was involved, but from ignorance we can't conclude existence.

How, in 2017, could somebody believe in a single-assassin shooting scenario? The problems with the EOP wound is humongous evidence against that.

 

[MicahJava]

I'm sorry, I have no expertise in that area. But the three pathologists you just named up thread (Humes, Finck, and Boswell) -- why don't you tell us what they concluded about that? They all concluded that the rear entry wound and the large head wound were created by one bullet, didn't they?

Thanks for providing yet another reason why your theory is untenable.

Hank

We have what Humes, Boswell, and Finck claim to believe- that a bullet entered the EOP and exited the top of his head. We have witnesses like Lipsey who say that the doctors seriously discussed two bullets entering the head.

Also, depending on when he's asked, Dr. Burkley gave a more ambiguous answer, saying several times that he either believed or suspected that more Kennedy was shot in the head more than once. An extended interview with more questioning and elaboration was never requested nor granted. The HSCA staff never even thought to ask him about the location of the small head wound, probably because they wanted to nurse their "cowlick" pet theory.

What does it matter to you? You cannot use the autopsy doctor's conclusions as evidence for the cowlick entry theory. They always shouted from the highest mountains that the entry wound they saw was near the EOP and not in the "cowlick".

 

[Elagabalus]

We have what Humes, Boswell, and Finck claim to believe- that a bullet entered the EOP and exited the top of his head. We have witnesses like Lipsey who say that the doctors seriously discussed two bullets entering the head.

Also, depending on when he's asked, Dr. Burkley gave a more ambiguous answer, saying that he either believed or suspected that more Kennedy was shot in the head more than once.

What does it matter to you? You cannot use the autopsy doctor's conclusions as evidence for the cowlick entry theory. They always shouted from the highest mountains that the entry wound they saw was near the EOP and not in the "cowlick".

Any chance you could give us this all Encompassing Grand Unified Theory which best explains all the evidence we have? That way we'll have something we can actually examine instead of the constant ankle biting.

 

[MicahJava]

Any chance you could give us this all Encompassing Grand Unified Theory which best explains all the evidence we have? That way we'll have something we can actually examine instead of the constant ankle biting.

Can you?