Ed Dueling protests spark state of emergency in Virginia.

Cain said:
Re: "Terrorism" is one of those watchwords that merit special attention; people should think twice before invoking it. Normally, the political right is quick to make the charge, especially if it can be called "Islamic." Here's a guy who committed a horrific act of violence, but the circumstances (I choose not to watch the video) strike me as a matter of hate and poor impulse control. It's not apolitical road rage, but it's also not a plot. In other words, he was not thinking through the large political repercussions. Had he rented a large van, gathered speed, and plowed through crowds of people, then, yes, that's unmistakably terrorism.

A couple more points of comparison. Check the responses of people by political affiliation to the attacks by the Somali student at Ohio State (I want to do a search, but this forum formatting has suddenly become unreadable). There was also a case maybe a month or two back where leftie protestors were staging a "dying in" and some jerk on a motorcycle zipped though, scaring the hell out of them. Given the circumstances as I understand them, both of those cases are more promising cases of "terrorism," but the main point is that labeling something "terrorist" immediately shuts down critical thinking. A terrorist attack is not necessarily more terrifying than workplace violence. All other things being equal, terrorism is only worse because atrocities from one event are connected to another (and encourage more violence), whereas workplace instances tend to be more isolated and episodic.
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This was politically motivated violence in order to harm and intimidate. That's terrorism. Terrorism doesn't require conspiracy.
 
One guy with a car.

Three guys with sticks.

Yesterday Virginia State Police announced the arrest of three suspects in connection with Jason Kessler’s Unite the Right (UTR) rally in Charlottesville, Virginia.

Among them was James M. O’Brien of Gainesville, Florida. O’Brien was arrested and charged with carrying a concealed handgun.
O’Brien’s arrest roughly coincided with a rush on a Charlottesville parking garage by local SWAT units after members of the Neo-Confederate Florida League of the South (FL LOS) were filmed viciously beating a black man, who attempted to run away, fell, and was savaged once again. Also visible in the video was at least one man carrying a shield with a Vanguard America logo, much like the one carried by James Alex Fields, who allegedly drove his car through a group of counter protestors killing one.
The video of the beating occurs about 26 seconds into the CNN clip below.
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​
See link for video and more information.

The victim was Deandre Harris, a twenty year old black man who worked as an instructional assistant at a special education program in a nearby school.

He lost enough blood that he said the people at the hospital who treated him told him he was lucky.
 
quadraginta said:
I'd be surprised if the ones who could be union didn't take advantage of it. It's not like they have principles or personal integrity or anything.

They love using the ACLU, too.

Of course, they think the ACLU are a bunch of chumps whenever they help them, but that doesn't wound their pride enough to turn that help down.
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The difference being that unions tend to be unknowingly taken advantage of, and quickly rectify the problem when it gets discovered.[*] Whereas the ACLU is well-aware of everything yet still offers to lend nazis a hand with their project.

* at least, that's how I hope things work with unions in the US as well
 
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I really have no quantitative information as to the relative violence from the white supremacists versus their opponents, although from what I can see from videos and pictures, I believe the former specifically intended to intimidate people through violence, and indeed did so. Nonetheless I have no problem with Trump denouncing violence whoever committed it. But what disgusts me is the refusal of Trump to then go on and specifically denounce the core racist and fascist principles of the Nazis and white supremacists. These ideas are so against the very principles of this country, yet clearly Trump is not terribly disturbed by these ideas, nor having the support of the people who advocate these ideas. His repeated refusal to do so, given so many opportunities, was so clear that the white supremacists crowed how Trump was publicly supporting them and their movement!

To quote John Oliver- “Nazis are a lot like cats. If they like you, it’s probably because you are feeding them.” And “Incredibly, in a country where previous presidents have actually had to defeat Nazis, we now have one who cannot even be bothered to f**king condemn them.”
 
dudalb said:
Too Little, Too Late.
The white supremists who took Trump's statement Saturday as a attaboy will say Trump did it under pressure,and Trump still supports them, and for all but the diehard Trump supporters it will look about the same:Trump only made the statement under political pressure.
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Yep. The good things about this statement are that it makes him look weak and that it lets these guys know that Trump won't really have their backs if it costs him.
 
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Cain said:
Re: "Terrorism" is one of those watchwords that merit special attention; people should think twice before invoking it. Normally, the political right is quick to make the charge, especially if it can be called "Islamic." Here's a guy who committed a horrific act of violence, but the circumstances (I choose not to watch the video) strike me as a matter of hate and poor impulse control. It's not apolitical road rage, but it's also not a plot. In other words, he was not thinking through the large political repercussions. Had he rented a large van, gathered speed, and plowed through crowds of people, then, yes, that's unmistakably terrorism.

A couple more points of comparison. Check the responses of people by political affiliation to the attacks by the Somali student at Ohio State (I want to do a search, but this forum formatting has suddenly become unreadable). There was also a case maybe a month or two back where leftie protestors were staging a "dying in" and some jerk on a motorcycle zipped though, scaring the hell out of them. Given the circumstances as I understand them, both of those cases are more promising cases of "terrorism," but the main point is that labeling something "terrorist" immediately shuts down critical thinking. A terrorist attack is not necessarily more terrifying than workplace violence. All other things being equal, terrorism is only worse because atrocities from one event are connected to another (and encourage more violence), whereas workplace instances tend to be more isolated and episodic.
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You have a good point. If the motive was that highlighted above, and I agree it was likely, then it's not the same as politically motivated terrorism intended to accomplish some political goal.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
You have a good point. If the motive was that highlighted above, and I agree it was likely, then it's not the same as politically motivated terrorism intended to accomplish some political goal.
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How exactly is a neo-nazi driving a vehicle into a group of anti-fascist protesters not "politically motivated terrorism"? Even if it was not premeditated but a "spur of the moment" thing, how is this not political?
 
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Fast Eddie B said:
Agreed.

Credit where credit is due.

The true ideologues will be the ones who will continue to find fault, even after he says exactly what they've been insisting he should say.
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I'm not entirely sure that prevaricating for more than a day and only criticising racism after increasing pressure is exactly worthy of praise.

Killing innocent people in the name of hate is a bad thing. It's not a complex issue.
 
caveman1917 said:
How exactly is a neo-nazi driving a vehicle into a group of anti-fascist protesters not "politically motivated terrorism"? Even if it was not premeditated but a "spur of the moment" thing, how is this not political?
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Could just be angry murder with no higher objective. Could be with no intent to affect anything.
 
caveman1917 said:
Yeah it just happens to be a coincidence that the driver is a neo-nazi who drove into a group of anti-fascist protesters.
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You are mixing up "not political terrorism" with "not a coincidence." You can murder somebody because you hate something about them without it being terrorism.
 
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