Ed Dueling protests spark state of emergency in Virginia.

[caveman1917]

OK how about:

[*]It doesn't follow Anonymous' usual MO where the hacked site content is inaccessible

True, but the usual MO doesn't have as a goal permanent removal.

[*]The notice itself is misspelled and contains white supremacist language

Spelling is hardly a factor. There's no way to know if the person who wrote it is even a native English speaker in the first place.

[*]Anonymous themselves are sceptical that it was an established member that did the hacking - https://www.theguardian.com/technol...e-daily-stormer-charlottesville-heather-heyer
[/LIST]

That's just the media though. Anonymous is not an organization with membership. The same goes Antifa btw, but you'll also see the media talk about it as if it were an organization and bring up "spokespeople" for it.

The thing which is in favour of the hoax hypothesis is GoDaddy's threat of removal of the site. However this means that the site owner is acceding to GoDaddy's removal and making it permanent. Given the value this site has to the alt-right, and the triviality of moving the site to a different server, that seems an odd decision.

 

[JoeMorgue]

And "Anonymous" (surprisingly enough) isn't exactly a rigid organization with carefully defined membership edges and a top down command structure.

 

[The Don]

True, but the usual MO doesn't have as a goal permanent removal.

It's trivially easy to only have the announcement as the accessible content on a site. Anonymous AFAIK always lock down the sites they hack. This does not look anything like the actions of a skilled hacker or hacking organisation seeking to control a site.

It is consistent with the actions of someone or some group wishing to give the impression that their site has been hacked whilst still allowing access to all the rest of the content on their site.

Spelling is hardly a factor. There's no way to know if the person who wrote it is even a native English speaker in the first .

It's not just the spelling, it's also the white nationalist messaging as well.

That's just the media though. Anonymous is not an organization with membership. The same goes Antifa btw, but you'll also see the media talk about it as if it were an organization and bring up "spokespeople" for it.

...if you read the article I linked, the basis for The Guardian claim is clear.

The thing which is in favour of the hoax hypothesis is GoDaddy's threat of removal of the site. However this means that the site owner is acceding to GoDaddy's removal and making it permanent. Given the value this site has to the alt-right, and the triviality of moving the site to a different server, that seems an odd decision.

That's your opinion. I think the amateurish "hack" is a clear indication that it's not an Anonymous effort.

 

[uke2se]

2nd simliar right wing extremist attack in a few months, this time on US soil. Where's the call for a ban of White people entering the US?

Je suis Antifa!

 

[Belz...]

2nd simliar right wing extremist attack in a few months, this time on US soil.

Well that sure answers some of our resident right-wingers request for examples of right-wing violence.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Of course he did. There aren't that many pharma company CEO's in his support base to alienate, but there are millions of white supremacists and fellow travellers.

This is a repeating meme, that this has to do with Trump not wanting to alienate his base. But surely there were many other groups you would think he wouldn't want to alienate but that didn't stop him.

I think the reason for Trump's actions here is he agrees with these people. He is a racist and a bigot like they are.

A lot of people give him a pass saying in-person he isn't racist. He hired women and gosh there is Amarosa.

It doesn't make sense Trump's silence is simply a conscious effort not to offend the base. I think there is more to it than that simple argument. IMO, his actions against immigrants and Muslims and his failure to denounce the KKK or white supremacists are deeply interrelated.

 

[The Don]

2nd simliar right wing extremist attack in a few months, this time on US soil. Where's the call for a ban of White people entering the US?

Je suis Antifa!

Any attack by Muslims is, by definition, part of a wider terrorist campaign and must be met with overwhelming force.

Any attacks by white supremacists are just the actions of misguided individuals (no doubt enraged by #FAKE NEWS) who need to be treated and pitied and there's no broader movement that represents a threat.

 

[rwguinn]

People are identifying the Charlottesville Nazis and getting them fired

I disprove of this tactic as much as I disapprove of the actions that the individuals possibly perpetrated.
Especially when the photos only show an individual probably ahouting...

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

 

[uke2se]

I disprove of this tactic as much as I disapprove of the actions that the individuals possibly perpetrated.
Especially when the photos only show an individual probably ahouting...

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

I'm cool with it. It's only speech after all.

 

[caveman1917]

I disprove of this tactic as much as I disapprove of the actions that the individuals possibly perpetrated.
Especially when the photos only show an individual probably ahouting...

The tactic is quite effective in reducing fascists' ability to influence the working class and organize in workplaces. Your moralistic disapproval is irrelevant. And besides, who can resist the irony of putting fascists on welfare?

 

[caveman1917]

Je suis Antifa!

You're a cop. You can't be both.

 

[sackett]

I'm cool with it. It's only speech after all.

Nobody's forcing employers to fire anybody. If our nazis are union members, they'll be hard to fire summarily, unless they have an unusually feeble contract.

But somehow, I have to doubt that most nazis and other kinds of Trumpanzee are union men.

 

[caveman1917]

Nobody's forcing employers to fire anybody. If our nazis are union members, they'll be hard to fire summarily, unless they have an unusually feeble contract.

I have no idea what sort of "unions" you have, but if nazis are found to be union members they get instantly kicked out.

But somehow, I have to doubt that most nazis and other kinds of Trumpanzee are union men.

I have to doubt you even know what fascists are/do. Hint: the "syndicalism" in "National Syndicalism".

 

[caveman1917]

The alt-right seems to understand their previous strategy had some flaws.

 

[Cain]

Re: "Terrorism" is one of those watchwords that merit special attention; people should think twice before invoking it. Normally, the political right is quick to make the charge, especially if it can be called "Islamic." Here's a guy who committed a horrific act of violence, but the circumstances (I choose not to watch the video) strike me as a matter of hate and poor impulse control. It's not apolitical road rage, but it's also not a plot. In other words, he was not thinking through the large political repercussions. Had he rented a large van, gathered speed, and plowed through crowds of people, then, yes, that's unmistakably terrorism.

A couple more points of comparison. Check the responses of people by political affiliation to the attacks by the Somali student at Ohio State (I want to do a search, but this forum formatting has suddenly become unreadable). There was also a case maybe a month or two back where leftie protestors were staging a "dying in" and some jerk on a motorcycle zipped though, scaring the hell out of them. Given the circumstances as I understand them, both of those cases are more promising cases of "terrorism," but the main point is that labeling something "terrorist" immediately shuts down critical thinking. A terrorist attack is not necessarily more terrifying than workplace violence. All other things being equal, terrorism is only worse because atrocities from one event are connected to another (and encourage more violence), whereas workplace instances tend to be more isolated and episodic.

 

[quadraginta]

<snip>

Bahahahahaha. Where are you planning to go? The US has the most liberal speech laws on the planet. In a lot of Europe the White Nationalists who marched in Virginia would be locked up. The UK, Australia, and Canada all have hate speech laws. Even herein New Zealand a lot of the things they were saying could end up with you in legal trouble. South America likewise, in fact in Brazil hate speech can get you locked up without bail. The likes of Asia and the Middle East have even stricter speech laws. Unless you plan to go to one of the African nations who is in such political turmoil that their Governments have little Control then pretty much the rest of the world has laws against Hate Speech. So then where exactly do you plan to go? Russia? Oh wait, Hate Speech there will get you a fine of 300,000 to 500,000 rubles or the salary or other income for a period of 2 to 3 years, or community service for a period of 1 year to four years, with disqualification to hold certain positions or engage in certain activities up to 3 years, or imprisonment for a term of 2 to 5 years. So perhaps not there either.

He could go to Germany. Birthplace of the Master Race.

Oh, wait ...

Aug. 13, 2017

BERLIN (AP) — Police say a drunken American man was punched by a passer-by as he gave the stiff-armed Nazi salute multiple times in downtown Dresden.
Dresden police said Sunday the 41-year-old, whose name and hometown weren't given for privacy reasons, suffered minor injuries in the 8:15 a.m. Saturday assault.

Police say the American, who is under investigation for violating Germany's laws against the display of Nazi symbols or slogans, had an extremely high blood alcohol level. His assailant fled the scene, and is being sought for causing bodily harm.

It's the second time this month that tourists have gotten themselves into legal trouble for giving the Nazi salute.

On August 5 two Chinese tourists were caught taking photos of themselves making the gesture in front of Berlin's Reichstag building.

 

[Segnosaur]

Trump condemns CEO that resigned from Manufacturing Council over Trump's response to Charlottesville in stronger words than he condemned white nationalists by calling him out by name.

If you haven't read the referenced article,
- Ken Fraizer of drug manufacturer Merck resigned from the president's Manufacturing council
- Trump has tweeted a message about how Fraizer now he has the time to "lower ripoff drug prices"

Ok, there are 2 interesting things to note about this:

- The CEO in question was a member of Trump's Manufacturing council for months, all that time influencing government policy (in theory). In all that time, Trump never publicly called him to lower drug prices, and if Trump was somehow trying to apply pressure behind the scenes, it certainly didn't work. So why would Trump have an advisor whom he is now saying is responsible for overcharging customers? Did he just come to the realization that drug prices are too high? Or was there some sort of spike in prices over the past few days?

- At least one of the other members of his Council is Alex Gorsky, of Johnson & Johnson, a company that also manufactures drugs. I wonder how Gorsky is going to feel now that Trump has claimed that drug prices are a 'ripoff'?

 

[quadraginta]

Nobody's forcing employers to fire anybody. If our nazis are union members, they'll be hard to fire summarily, unless they have an unusually feeble contract.

But somehow, I have to doubt that most nazis and other kinds of Trumpanzee are union men.

I'd be surprised if the ones who could be union didn't take advantage of it. It's not like they have principles or personal integrity or anything.

They love using the ACLU, too.

Of course, they think the ACLU are a bunch of chumps whenever they help them, but that doesn't wound their pride enough to turn that help down.

 

[ponderingturtle]

If you haven't read the referenced article,
- Ken Fraizer of drug manufacturer Merck resigned from the president's Manufacturing council
- Trump has tweeted a message about how Fraizer now he has the time to "lower ripoff drug prices"

Ok, there are 2 interesting things to note about this:

- The CEO in question was a member of Trump's Manufacturing council for months, all that time influencing government policy (in theory). In all that time, Trump never publicly called him to lower drug prices, and if Trump was somehow trying to apply pressure behind the scenes, it certainly didn't work. So why would Trump have an advisor whom he is now saying is responsible for overcharging customers? Did he just come to the realization that drug prices are too high? Or was there some sort of spike in prices over the past few days?

- At least one of the other members of his Council is Alex Gorsky, of Johnson & Johnson, a company that also manufactures drugs. I wonder how Gorsky is going to feel now that Trump has claimed that drug prices are a 'ripoff'?

I suspect it will depend more on how he feels about the close ties that Trump has with Nazi's. That level of consistency isn't at all aplicable to thinking about trump.

 

[carlvs]

If you haven't read the referenced article,
- Ken Fraizer of drug manufacturer Merck resigned from the president's Manufacturing council
- Trump has tweeted a message about how Fraizer now he has the time to "lower ripoff drug prices"

Ok, there are 2 interesting things to note about this:

- The CEO in question was a member of Trump's Manufacturing council for months, all that time influencing government policy (in theory). In all that time, Trump never publicly called him to lower drug prices, and if Trump was somehow trying to apply pressure behind the scenes, it certainly didn't work. So why would Trump have an advisor whom he is now saying is responsible for overcharging customers? Did he just come to the realization that drug prices are too high? Or was there some sort of spike in prices over the past few days?

- At least one of the other members of his Council is Alex Gorsky, of Johnson & Johnson, a company that also manufactures drugs. I wonder how Gorsky is going to feel now that Trump has claimed that drug prices are a 'ripoff'?

One other thing - this CEO is black...