It's Tuscany of course. A "bolthole" is a place of refuge into which a small animal can escape, or "bolt", when chased by a predator. A rabbit's burrow, for example. But figuratively it may refer, as it does here, to a holiday destination. Is it not ironic, that British xenophobes who wish to exclude foreigners from the U.K. nevertheless take their own holidays in Tuscany?
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Leaks of a survey asking people to choose between cake ownership and cake eating.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/remain-and-leave-voters-are-surprisingly-united-on-backing?utm_term=.owq42y50o#.ijLkV1NJY
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jamesball/remain-and-leave-voters-are-surprisingly-united-on-backing?utm_term=.owq42y50o#.ijLkV1NJY
Delphic Oracle
Philosopher
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- Sep 17, 2016
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Been nice knowing you chaps.
Maybe Merkel was even less right than she thought about the UK being forced into lapdog position for the US. Maybe states 51-55 (depending on how the various unions and divisions are handled)?
Wouldn't that be a coup?! Maybe I shouldn't use that term right now...
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
What makes you think we'd take you?
Too many brown people.
Not to mention Irish.
Great, now the official UK Government Brexit policy is officially impossible, out of the EEA and Customs Union but with the free flow of goods 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40914604
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40914604
Wonder how many the elderly that voted for exit will be surprised when their carers have to go home, when the bloke who cuts their grass is no longer available.
Great, now the official UK Government Brexit policy is officially impossible, out of the EEA and Customs Union but with the free flow of goods
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40914604
I almost hope that the current government get to 'own' the consequences for a few years, as it could permanently rid us of some total wankers whose rise to power remains a mystery to me. But I doubt if they'll care too much as they head off to their consultancies, directorships and lecture tours.
The article also shows where the crux of the problem lies.
Finding the public's view on what Brexit should look like has proven a tricky task for pollsters and politicians, as many of the technical issues and tradeoffs are not well understood. As an example, one poll showed 88% of the public supporting free trade with the EU post-Brexit, while 69% wanted customs checks at the border – a directly contradictory position, meaning at least 57% of respondents had said they supported both open and closed borders.
They tried to tackle this by asking more specific questions, but they failed because they thought the crux of the problem is not in public supporting contradictory positions on Brexit. This is but a symptom of problem, the real problem is the pervasive and utter ignorance about what the issues of Brexit and possible solutions are. If at least 57% of the population is unable to discern those two options as mutually exclusive then no more than 43% of the population had the ability to answer those questions in a meaningful way in the first place.
Sure you can still do studies about what people want from Brexit, but you might as well be asking them how to tackle technological challenges with fusion power. Think how ITER would react to having such a study pushed on them on what it should do next.
British negotiators should react to such public opinion surveys in the same manner.
McHrozni
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Great, now the official UK Government Brexit policy is officially impossible, out of the EEA and Customs Union but with the free flow of goods
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40914604
This always was the Brexit policy, having the cake and eating it. It is alarming that 14 months after the referendum and almost a quarter of the way in the time for UK to leave and a third of the time to negotiate the deal they still haven't done the most basic research of what is doable and are still deep in the populist cresspit.
If they don't get their act together real quick you will stumble out of EU without any deal whatsoever.
McHrozni
It's been my suspicion that this has been the plan all along. No deal means that the government can blame those horrible, horrible Europeans and invoke the Dunkirk/Blitz spirit.
The more painful the experience is for the UK population, the more likely we are to just buckle down and deal with it rather than (justifiably IMO) questioning and complaining about the deal.
It's been my suspicion that this has been the plan all along. No deal means that the government can blame those horrible, horrible Europeans and invoke the Dunkirk/Blitz spirit.
The more painful the experience is for the UK population, the more likely we are to just buckle down and deal with it rather than (justifiably IMO) questioning and complaining about the deal.
Yeah, I know. You Brits are weird, but are you weird enough to accept these levels of ineptitude as being the work of nefarious Europeans?
Weird may not even be the proper descriptor any more, there are a lot less flattering variants that are immensly better suited.
McHrozni
The number of British retirees looking to live in the EU doubled in the past year.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ng-to-settle-in-europe-say-financial-advisers
Some leave voters definitely weren't joking about having their cake and eating it too.
McHrozni
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ng-to-settle-in-europe-say-financial-advisers
Some leave voters definitely weren't joking about having their cake and eating it too.
McHrozni
Blaming foreigners for all your own country's ills is hardly a uniquely British thing. IM (very cynical and possibly conspiratorial) O the key thing is to make things as bad as possible. If Brexit turns out to be largely neutral or only slightly disadvantageous for the UK then there will be a lot of people with the time, energy and inclination to complain bitterly and hold the government to account.
If, on the other hand, the post-Brexit situation is so calamitous that we end up in a state of national emergency then all political parties will have to "pull together for the national good" and any or all complainers will be portrayed as being unpatriotic and defeatist.
But as I concede, my opinions are firmly in
territory 
tbh screwing over their children and grandchildren seems to have been the baby boomers' MO for some time now
Why should this be any different ?Take their defined benefits occupational pensions, their triple locked state pensions (taken at 60 and 65), use their EU rights and leave their children and grandchildren to pay for it all.
Blaming foreigners for all your own country's ills is hardly a uniquely British thing. IM (very cynical and possibly conspiratorial) O the key thing is to make things as bad as possible. If Brexit turns out to be largely neutral or only slightly disadvantageous for the UK then there will be a lot of people with the time, energy and inclination to complain bitterly and hold the government to account.
If, on the other hand, the post-Brexit situation is so calamitous that we end up in a state of national emergency then all political parties will have to "pull together for the national good" and any or all complainers will be portrayed as being unpatriotic and defeatist.
This is what I was reffering to. If the results of a policy are horrible then the prevailing opinion is to turn against the government that endorsed them. It worked that way in the USSR, after their disastrous policies ended in famines the government had to find scapegoats to 'punish'.
Brits? No, let's support these guys who threw us in misery even more.
It's a bit of a caricature, but you get my meaning.
But as I concede, my opinions are firmly in
I wouldn't be so sure. The government did just about every mistake that could be imagined plus several others you'd need both schitzophrenia and be high on acid to be able to imagine at all. This was due to either levels of incompetence not seen since China '58-'62 or deliberate actions. If the baboon (B.J., you just have to love those initials) and others are not, in fact, utter morons but intelligent, well studied individuals then the most simple explanation is their actions are indeed deliberate.
At this point two scenarios emerge, the one you proposed here and my version where they're doing all of this in order to derail Brexit, including the variant where they aborted this scenario in favor of an actual Brexit. We agree that version is less probable than the one with the Dunkirk spirit.
It comes down to this - either the British cabinet really is composed of clowns and assorted circus animals who recieved honors from high-ranking universities, or else the people in charge give that apperance to hide a different agenda - either a diamond-hard Brexit or no Brexit at all.
It's not a tinfoil scenario at all, but one of the several not all that plausible scenarios. The thing is one of those implausible scenarios is a close approximation of reality, because anything outside of them is firmly in the shape-shifting reptile territory.
McHrozni
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Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
Not all pensioners voted to leave, you know. I've been thinking about moving to Europe myself, and I expect the majority looking to do so are, like me, horrified remain voters. I shall finally get my state pension in November (it's my 64th birthday today).tbh screwing over their children and grandchildren seems to have been the baby boomers' MO for some time now
Why should this be any different ?Take their defined benefits occupational pensions, their triple locked state pensions (taken at 60 and 65), use their EU rights and leave their children and grandchildren to pay for it all.
Correct, "only" 61% of the over-65's voted to leave, that number being somewhat higher in England.
I don't know either way but at least you're lucky enough to have that option on retirement. I will not but at least I've have the benefits of being able to work in the EU and build a business based on EU clients. Those a generation behind me won't have that option either
Good for you. I will of course be older when I become eligible for my state pension and those of the generation behind me will be older still and may not have additional longevity in which to enjoy it.
IMO it's not a case of supporting "the guys who threw us in misery even more" so much as working together for the good of the country from the current ****** position. IMO it's the same dynamic which sees support for a US President soar when the US comes under attack and/or goes to war.
Working together for the good of the country is the lamest excuse not to hold those in power liable for their actions ever devised and one of the most widely used too. Supporting the government that brought about Brexit and made it extra bad for the country is as much working together for the good of the country as supporting Trump in his antics is working for the good of the country.
The good of the government is not the good of the country. The only time one can be excused for supporting the government no matter what it does is when one is facing an imminent foreign invasion and occupation. There is no Sealion II in store for UK after Brexit, so working together for the good of the country does not imply contending with whatever antics these guys and gals have in store. This is not the 17th century, the king is not the state. England was one of the first countries to officially recognize that.
McHrozni
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England was copying a neighbour who had the same idea four years previously.
1638: Signing of the National Covenant in Scotland
1642: ... Parliament passes the Militia Bill which, in effect, seizes control of the London arsenal and places the trainbands and militia under its authority.
1642: ... Parliament passes the Militia Bill which, in effect, seizes control of the London arsenal and places the trainbands and militia under its authority.
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