General Holocaust denial discussion Part III

[Degeneve]

Same crap? Yep, sure enough.

You cannot identify one credible Jewish eyewitness to the holohoax and describe, right here on this thread, his/her testimony. If you can, please do.

Since you don't want to read documentation and studies about the holocaust I will do as one does with kids and provide you with two links to websites which show paintings and drawings from David Olère. David Olère was a French Jews who was arrested in February and ended up in the Sonderkommando of Auschwitz.

As he was painter he told his story after the war in several paintings and drawings which perfectly match with most testimonies of SK survivors or even German SS. The second link is in French but the drawings are self explaining and everybody can understand what they represent:

http://fcit.usf.edu/Holocaust/resource/gallery/olere.htm

http://sonderkommando.info/index.php/sonderkommandos/les-temoignages/lart/david-olere

 

[smartcooky]

Are you just lazy or are you simply afraid of what lies behind those links?

Probably both.

Its fairly common among conspiracy theorists to deal with evidence that their worldview is wrong, its to either ignore it, or refuse to look at it, or pretend they haven't had it pointed out to them, preferring to move on to some new claim (or repeating an old claim) when confronted. We see the same patterns with 9/11 truthers and Apollo Hoax Believers

Saggy uses all three of these standard "evidence avoidance" techniques, as has been amply demonstrated time and time again in this thread

 

[Nessie]

If you cannot describe and justify the testimony of one Jewish holohoax witness it is time to hang it up.

As Lemmy said, that has been done time and time again, you pretending it has not is dishonest. As is your refusal to evidence mass survival of c101,000 Dutch Jews, c34,000 of whom were sent to Sobibor.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Saggy can't think for himself, which is why he keeps spamming and changing the subject, instead of responding to our criticism. He can only parrot other people's words instead of coming up with his own ideas.

Remarkably, Saggy posted this, giving 8 links to read so we'd understand his thoughts on Babi Yar:

. . . Well written, what an excellent presentation.

Unfortunately, while well presented, the content is all garbage, as I'll now demonstrate ....

What Happend at Babi Yar, Fact vs. Myth

The Moral and Intellectual Bankruptcy of a Scholar

BABI YAR
Why do so many believe in the absurd Holocaustᵀᴹ myth?

Air Photo Evidence - Holocaust Handbooks

Interview With Professor
Robert Faurisson

David Irving -
What Happened at Babi Yar, Fact vs. Myth

Babi Yar - Critical Comments
and Questions

Mass Graves at Vinnitsia, Poems for Babi Yar

I hope these articles bring you to a full realization of the absurdity of the Babi Yar hoax.

Which we duly read and commented on, at length.

But when Jeffk and I give Saggy a single link on two witnesses, Saggy has the audacity, and lack of self awareness, to post,

I'm not chasing links. Describe the testimony here. . . . Otherwise, don't waste our time.

So, yeah, basically he dodges every challenge because he "can't think for himself, which is why he keeps spamming and changing the subject."

 

[LemmyCaution]

Are you just lazy or are you simply afraid of what lies behind those links?

Recall that in your brief time at AHF you displayed a shocking lack of erudition, and even admitted that you had never heard of Odilo Globocnik - arguably the second most pivotal perpetrator of the Holocaust after Himmler! That's akin to a Holodomor denier being unable to name Vyachaslav Molotov or a n Armenian Genocide denier thinking that the Sultans were still in charge......

Saggy:

Using the redoubtable wiki, we find out that it was Globocnik and not Wirth who created the Reihnard system of camps ... among other nefarious actions ...

"On October 13, 1941, Globocnik received a verbal order from Himmler to start immediate construction work on Belzec, the first extermination camp in the General Government. The construction of three more extermination camps, Sobibór and Maidanek in the Lublin district, and Treblinka at Małkinia Górna, followed in 1942. All in all, Globocnik was responsible for killing more than 1.5 million Polish, Czech, Dutch, French, Russian, Slovak, German, and Austrian Jews and non-Jews in the death camps which he organized and supervised."

So, this is quite a character, and I had never heard of him.

AHF

Saggy had never heard of Globocnik, but was certain that what he was involved in didn't happen!

 

[LemmyCaution]

Since you don't want to read documentation and studies about the holocaust I will do as one does with kids and provide you with two links to websites which show paintings and drawings from David Olère. David Olère was a French Jews who was arrested in February and ended up in the Sonderkommando of Auschwitz.

As he was painter he told his story after the war in several paintings and drawings which perfectly match with most testimonies of SK survivors or even German SS. The second link is in French but the drawings are self explaining and everybody can understand what they represent:

http://fcit.usf.edu/Holocaust/resource/gallery/olere.htm

http://sonderkommando.info/index.php/sonderkommandos/les-temoignages/lart/david-olere

You probably think that Saggy will "chase" links, the way we do . . .

 

[LemmyCaution]

Probably both.

Its fairly common among conspiracy theorists to deal with evidence that their worldview is wrong, its to either ignore it, or refuse to look at it, or pretend they haven't had it pointed out to them, preferring to move on to some new claim (or repeating an old claim) when confronted. We see the same patterns with 9/11 truthers and Apollo Hoax Believers

Saggy uses all three of these standard "evidence avoidance" techniques, as has been amply demonstrated time and time again in this thread

He's added in a new twist: he can't operate Google's search function.

 

[Jeffk 1970]

You don't have a name. You don't have any evidence. Not surprising, the gas chambers are a completely idiotic hoax.

Now, hold on. You want a name and evidence. I asked you what evidence you would accept and this is your answer?
I ask again, what evidence would you accept?

 

[LemmyCaution]

And subsequently forgotten (again!), it seems ...

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=143517&hilit=majdanek+wedding&start=105#p1248475

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=143517&hilit=majdanek+wedding&start=120#p1248536

Nice finds, this is the same thread LeoMajor ID'ed re: Globocnik.

I noted this one, based on, er, Saggy's firm beliefs: "I don't think that a camp can be simultaneously a death camp and a labor camp."

David Thompson's reply to Saggy's declaration that "The only evidence I have seen that they were death camps consists of a phantasmagorical account by Kurt Gerstein, corroborated by Pfannenstiel" is classic, and apt for this thread, too: "That's because you haven't read the other accounts, and seem reluctant to read generally."

On Pfannenstiel Saggy concluded, incisively, "But, enough with Gerstein/Pfannenstiel, lets move on."

Btw the wedding, reported by Morgen, which Saggy was so exercised about, did not take place at a death camp (Majdanek), as Saggy assumed, but probably at the DAW works in Lublin (or possibly at the sorting camp at the Old Airfield).

The moderator wrapped that thread up, writing, "An attempt by Saggy to start a fifth thread on the holocaust was deleted by this moderator, as a service to our serious-minded readers -- DT."

 

[smartcooky]

I noted this one, based on, er, Saggy's firm beliefs: "I don't think that a camp can be simultaneously a death camp and a labor camp."

Say what?

How about...work them 'till they drop, then kill them when they do.

I imagine that getting injured or exhausted working in a death camp would be a death sentence... and carried out in very short order!

David Thompson's reply to Saggy's declaration that "The only evidence I have seen that they were death camps consists of a phantasmagorical account by Kurt Gerstein, corroborated by Pfannenstiel" is classic, and apt for this thread, too: "That's because you haven't read the other accounts, and seem reluctant to read generally."

Evidence avoidance

On Pfannenstiel Saggy concluded, incisively, "But, enough with Gerstein/Pfannenstiel, lets move on."

More evidence avoidance

The moderator wrapped that thread up, writing, "An attempt by Saggy to start a fifth thread on the holocaust was deleted by this moderator, as a service to our serious-minded readers -- DT."

 

[Belz...]

You've missed the big one .... most denialists on most boards are banned. On this Clayton Moore, Thunder, these are two that I found out by happenstance, maybe someone should make a list .....

And yet here you are. I guess you post more within the rules than Clayton.

Are you ever going to address any of the points, arguments and evidences brought forth by other posters, or will you just go on ignoring them?

I'm not chasing links.

That's both rich and ironic.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Say what?

How about...work them 'till they drop, then kill them when they do.

I imagine that getting injured or exhausted working in a death camp would be a death sentence... and carried out in very short order!

Sure. Say a camp where the injured/exhausted/ill inmates would be collected in special barracks, let's call them Gammelblocks, as was done at Majdanek, and would be left there intentionally to die or would be weeded out in large numbers during periodic sweeps and disposed of by lethal injection or gassing.

But as a conceptual "belief," a mixed purpose camp is hardly a stretch, either.

The black-and-white/either-or thinking here reminds me of when, about five years ago, HDers on this forum argued that because the EGs sometimes during 1941 carried out general security duties in the occupied Soviet Union or performed guard duty on occasions or in a number of cases targeted party activists, they couldn't have other, more important priorities, such as anti-Jewish operations (one denier actually wrote of the EGs, "But if you want to condemn them for setting up special units to scour the countryside and shoot all Jews willy nilly, you'll need to explain away all the evidence of the Einsatzgruppen engaged in activities other than killing the Jews"!).

Some HDers seem to lack sufficient life experience to understand how institutions and organizations operate; others apply special laws and rules to the Holocaust, rules that differ from those applicable to history in general; still others seem to assume that because they themselves cannot walk and chew gum simultaneously, no one can.

 

[Bluespaceoddity]

....

 

[LemmyCaution]

I asked you what evidence you would accept and this is your answer?
I ask again, what evidence would you accept?

A: none.

 

[Jeffk 1970]

Where is Saggy today? I hope we didn't hurt his feelings.

 

[Hans]

Where is Saggy today? I hope we didn't hurt his feelings.

Perhaps on another board his claim that all the evidence for the holocaust is what he calls a 'degenerative lie' was met with a counter-claim that his claim was a 'ludicrous lie' and he is unable to counter it.

 

[smartcooky]

Where is Saggy today? I hope we didn't hurt his feelings.

He's run out of non-evidence?

 

[Jeffk 1970]

LOL X 2

 

[Jeffk 1970]

Oh, well. I'll check back in tomorrow.

 

[Jeffk 1970]

No Saggy?

Oh, well. I'm going to start limiting my checking to every other day, then.