General Holocaust denial discussion Part III

[Saggy]

Hey Saggy, I did this earlier. But to help you now so that you don't hurt yourself trying to Google the Treblinka testimonies mentioned, here's some helpful reference information (you probably don't need it, given all the research you've done but just in case . . . )

Abraham Krzepicki
* Alexander Donat, The Death Camp Treblinka: A Documentary (New York: Holocaust Library, 1979), “Eighteen Days in Treblinka,” pp 77-146 (sometimes called “the long testimony” and “A person escaped from Treblinka . . . Conversations with returnees,” see also AR II/299)
* Joseph Kermish, To Live with Honor and Die with Honor (Jerusalem: Yad Vashem, 1986), “Reminiscences of a Treblinka Escapee,” pp 710-716 (sometimes called “the short testimony,” see also AR II/295)

Jacob Rabinowicz
* Hillel Seidman, The Warsaw Ghetto Diaries (Southfield, MI: Targum Press, 1997), pp 101-107
* Abraham Lewin, A Cup of Tears: A Diary of the Warsaw Ghetto (New York and Oxford: Basil Blackwell, 1988) (two diary entries on Rabinowicz: 25 September and 27 September 1942), pp 185-186

Jeffk linked to an article at HC blog describing the value of both testimonies, showing that both are credible.

I'm not chasing links. Describe the testimony here, tell us about it's relevance, importance, corroborating testimony/facts, and describe the physical evidence supporting it. Otherwise, don't waste our time.

Besides, beyond your comments, I want to see what Nick has to say

 

[LemmyCaution]

I'm not chasing links. Describe the testimony here, tell us about it's relevance, importance, corroborating testimony/facts, and describe the physical evidence supporting it. Otherwise, don't waste our time.

Besides, beyond your comments, I want to see what Nick has to say

No, you said all testimonies are lies. So I've named two of those included in your claim. Burden of proof is on you.

And . . . I've told you where to find the testimonies AND I've linked you to an article on them. It is not a question of chasing links, but of 1) your telling us how you knew when you wrote that all testimonies are lies that Krzepicki and Rabinowicz lied and 2) your clicking the link, very simple really, to read my views.

I take it that you're not familiar with these testimonies, core testimonies about Treblinka - but dismissed them anyway.

As to what Nick says, you challenged anyone here. I met your challenge. You failed to reply with a substantiation of your claim.

 

[smartcooky]

You've missed the big one .... most denialists on most boards are banned. On this Clayton Moore, Thunder, these are two that I found out by happenstance, maybe someone should make a list .....

And I wonder how many Holocaust proponents have been banned from Holocaust denialist nests of stupid such as David Icke Forums... plenty I'll bet!

 

[Saggy]

No, you said all testimonies are lies.

If you cannot describe and justify the testimony of one Jewish holohoax witness it is time to hang it up.

 

[LemmyCaution]

If you cannot describe and justify the testimony of one Jewish holohoax witness it is time to hang it up.

But of course I can - and I've done so here. If you can't click a link and read (what you pretend to want to know about!), I really don't know how to help you.

But more to the point: I challenged you to prove your claim and gave you two testimonies to go to town on. You made the claim, I didn't.

You don't get to make a claim, then turn around and put the burden of proof on those asking you to support it.

 

[LemmyCaution]

I'm just watching as you roll out the rope, which which I will hang the whole absurd argument and every lie in the entire charade. Remember, this is one of my favorite topics. Do your best

Babi Yar? There have been a number of posts making arguments and providing explanations of evidence relative to your favorite topic - and you've simply ignored these and then changed the subject.

 

[Jeffk 1970]

And, even better than that, how about the Bradley Smith challenge, identify one person gassed at Auschwitz and provide proof of the fact. Or, let's say, provide the evidence for the fact.

LOL, wow, that's a hoary old denier chestnut you got rockin', Saggy.

Let's say for the sake of argument I have a name. What sort of evidence would you accept, Saggy?

 

[LemmyCaution]

LOL, wow, that's a hoary old denier chestnut you got rockin', Saggy.

Let's say for the sake of argument I have a name. What sort of evidence would you accept, Saggy?

A week or so, I answered this, because Roberto Muehlenkamp at HC did a nice piece meeting the challenge in 2009, and I posted a link to his piece - and so Saggy just moved on to something new.

Oh yeah, the king of links doesn't "chase" links.

 

[Saggy]

LOL, wow, that's a hoary old denier chestnut you got rockin', Saggy.

Let's say for the sake of argument I have a name. What sort of evidence would you accept, Saggy?

You don't have a name. You don't have any evidence. Not surprising, the gas chambers are a completely idiotic hoax.

 

[LemmyCaution]

. . . the gas chambers are a completely idiotic hoax.

And, once again, Saggy gives his best evidence.

 

[LemmyCaution]

You don't have a name. You don't have any evidence. Not surprising, the gas chambers are a completely idiotic hoax.

Saggy, you were asked, not for your opinion of what Jeffk has or doesn't have, not for your opinion of what reply he might give, but "What sort of evidence would you accept . . . ?"

Afraid to give Jeffk an answer to his question, eh?

 

[Ivanesca]

Saggy can't think for himself, which is why he keeps spamming and changing the subject, instead of responding to our criticism. He can only parrot other people's words instead of coming up with his own ideas.

 

[LeoMajor]

If you cannot describe and justify the testimony of one Jewish holohoax witness it is time to hang it up.

Are you just lazy or are you simply afraid of what lies behind those links?

Recall that in your brief time at AHF you displayed a shocking lack of erudition, and even admitted that you had never heard of Odilo Globocnik - arguably the second most pivotal perpetrator of the Holocaust after Himmler! That's akin to a Holodomor denier being unable to name Vyachaslav Molotov or a n Armenian Genocide denier thinking that the Sultans were still in charge......

 

[LeoMajor]

lol

 

[LeoMajor]

You don't have a name. You don't have any evidence. Not surprising, the gas chambers are a completely idiotic hoax.

Wilhelm Pfannenstiel visited Belzec in 1942 and described the gassing that he witnessed in detail to several post war legal proceedings. His description of the pipes running under the floor of the gas chamber matched the testimony of a number of Polish locals who were pressed into constructing it.

Add that to the long, long list of names you have been given.

 

[LeoMajor]

I hope people here are arguing with Saggy for the benefit of third parties,not in hopes they can convince his he Is wrong.......

I just enjoy beating up on imbeciles. In High School I did it physically. With Saggy I do it intellectually.

 

[Ivanesca]

A week or so, I answered this, because Roberto Muehlenkamp at HC did a nice piece meeting the challenge in 2009, and I posted a link to his piece - and so Saggy just moved on to something new.

Oh yeah, the king of links doesn't "chase" links.

Dr. Neander answered this too. He also showed that try as he might, Carlo Mattogno had no answer to him.


holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2010/02/dr-joachim-neander-responds-to-carlo.html?m=1

Smith and Saggy are honestly splitting hairs. There are wartime records like the Kinna report and various "Special treatment" reports that explicitly or implicitly describe a policy of killing the Jews in Auschwitz. That murder was SOP is irrefutable. The "name" bs is at best a minor detail that says nothing about the recorded policies of killing, and rests on the false assumption that the killers knew or cared enough about the victim's name to be bothered to record it.

This is like saying that a sawmill isn't a sawmill unless the employees can name the individual serial numbers of the trees that they turned to lumber. A complete non sequitur.

 

[Ivanesca]

Wilhelm Pfannenstiel visited Belzec in 1942 and described the gassing that he witnessed in detail to several post war legal proceedings. His description of the pipes running under the floor of the gas chamber matched the testimony of a number of Polish locals who were pressed into constructing it.

Add that to the long, long list of names you have been given.

IIRC, Pfannenstiel also related this episode to Paul Rassinier. Given His description of the gassing even though he was hostile to Kurt Gerstein, Rassinier had no choice to acknowledge some form of gassing at Belzec, because he figured that Pfannenstiel must be telling the truth if he insisted on gassing despite his attacks on Gerstein.

 

[Ivanesca]

On the Hoax that never happened, some fellow on Twitter was kind enough to share the following.

https://m.thevintagenews.com/2016/0...many-genocide-not-criminal-code-nazi-germany/

Nazi general who was responsible for the Wola massacre of 40,000 was pardoned by West Germany because “genocide was not in the criminal code of Nazi Germany”

Up to two hundred thousand civilians of Poland were exterminated during the Warsaw Uprising and for this Reinefarth received the Oak Leaves to his Knight’s Cross of the Iron Cross.


At the conclusion of the war, Poland demanded his extradition to face war crimes, but the Allies wanted to use him as a witness at the Nuremberg Trials.

After the Trials, Reinefarth was arrested again but was released by Hamburg officials due to lack of evidence. It was the opinion of the court that depositions were insufficient and that genocide was not considered a crime in Nazi Germany and therefore he was innocent of any wrongdoing.

Along with similar war criminals in West Germany, Reinfarth was able to live the normal life of any German citizen. He became Mayor of the wealthy resort town of Westerland on the island of Sylt in 1951 until 1962 when he was elected to the Landtag of Schleswig-Holstein, serving until 1967. He completed his career as an attorney until his retirement when he was awarded a General’s pension.

So, the Hoax never happened. West Germany did not collaborate with the US and Israel in "faking" the Holocaust. Just the opposite. West Germany and the US collaborated in covering up the Holocaust in the decades after the war, to better reintegrate west Germany. The Dusseldorf court that reviewed Oskar Strawczynsky's testimony was like the Hamburg court that released Reinfarth: Skewed in the defendants' favor. Even then, the Dusseldorf court analyzed Strawczynsky's testimony and concluded that he was a neutral observer reporting what he saw as honestly as he could, and not someone making stuff up. As defendant friendly as they were, they concluded that he was right and gassing did take place in Treblinka, so they instead tried to make it so that the defendants got off or had light sentences. Even a court in a nation that tried to undermine the Holocaust admitted that it was true. There was no Hoax.

 

[Elagabalus]

Wilhelm Pfannenstiel visited Belzec in 1942 and described the gassing that he witnessed in detail to several post war legal proceedings. His description of the pipes running under the floor of the gas chamber matched the testimony of a number of Polish locals who were pressed into constructing it.

Add that to the long, long list of names you have been given.

And subsequently forgotten (again!), it seems ...

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=143517&hilit=majdanek+wedding&start=105#p1248475

https://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=143517&hilit=majdanek+wedding&start=120#p1248536