General Holocaust denial discussion Part III

[Ivanesca]

Ernst Zundel died earlier today, according to CODOH forum.

Other deceased deniers in 2017 include Samuel Crowell, Klaus Schwensen, Erich Glagau and Hans-Dietrich Sander.

Zundel was a liar. I.e., he famously stated that Survivors were not cross examined or questioned until his trial in the late 80s (a lie that Mondial happily repeats). Anyone who has actually studied the history of war crimes trials can see that this is bollocks. As early as the 60s, West German courts rigorously examined witnesses because they needed detailed information about the suspects' behaviour when they comitted their crimes, in order to meet the strict requirements for murder convictions. This was why a lot of perpetrators either got off or had light sentences, which puts the lie to the deniers' favorite excuse that the Germans were "tortured"

Zundel deliberately spread false inforrmation, and Deniers eagerly swallow it up despite the real history of war crimes trials being easily accessible. I'm not going to mince words, it couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. Zundel was a liar, and the world is better off without him. Good riddance.

 

[smartcooky]

You guys are wasting your time...I mean you are putting out really great info but there is no actual debate here there is your information then denial.

I for one am finding all this excellent. I am learning things about the Holocaust and the surrounding history that I either was only dimly aware of or didn't even know. It makes a great counterpoint to Saggy's evidence-free gish galloping, and Google-mining.. the stark difference between the two throws the sheer stupidity of the denial movement into sharp focus.

Their time may be wasted on Saggy, but that doesn't hold true for everyone.

 

[smartcooky]

Saggy pretending that you are suddenly going to turn from someone equivalent to a turnip in doing research to a blazing intellectual tiger is a bit juvenile - don't you think? All you have shown is amateur denial and posting links to things well beyond you to understand/explain or defend and often not even knowing they were debunked generations ago.

He's like an amateur astronomer posting links to Harlow Shapley's theories of the universe, and refusing to read anything to do with Heber Curtis or Edwin Hubble because it was all "degenerate lies"

 

[LemmyCaution]

"Soviet Archival records" revealed no such thing. If anything, Soviet Archival records reveal the complete lack of any "atrocity propaganda" about Babi Yar. Saggy can thank Herbert Tiedemann for this.

http://www.e-reading.club/chapter.p...abi_Yar__Critical_Questions_and_Comments.html

What's self evident is that this "Nikiforuk" guy is a liar, and has absolutely no idea about the actual policies of the USSR towards the Holocaust in General and Babi Yar in particular. They didn't "manufacture" any atrocity propaganda about it: as Tiedemann shows, they covered it up because since the majority of the victims at BY were Jews who were killed for being Jews, it contradicted their narrative of Capitalists killing communists. Ehrenburg and Grossman didn't manufacture anything; like most Soviet Jews, they did not dictate the policy of the USSR and had no ability to shape it or define whatever "atrocity propaganda" the non Jews who ran the USSR wanted.

Yup.

For someone whose "favorite topic" is Babi Yar, Saggy is awfully gullible in accepting denier claims. E.g., this Nitiforuk fellow claims that the Soviets, and particularly the NKVD, "orchestrated" Babi Yar and its memory: according to Nitiforuk,

Also Ilya Ehrenburg, in his 1947 novel, The Storm, tried unsuccessfully to revitalize the Babi Yar story. The Old Woman's Ravine story did not gain "credibility" until 12 years later. Then, a visiting Jewish-Ukrainian-American journalist, Joseph Schechtman, persuaded young Soviet dissident Evgeny Yevtushenko to write an emotional and widely read poem "Babi Yar". . .

That's it for Yevtushenko in Nitiforuk's article. I once read an essay on Babi Yar (by Sheldon?) which well explained the problem with this line of thought: whereas earlier writings about the ravine were in protest of the Germans for massacring the Jews, Yevtushenko wrote in protest of the Soviets for their failure to remember those murdered. Nitiforuk's NKVD conspiracy theory is based on ignorance of this well-known history.

Ukrainian expert Karel Berkhoff explains some of the background for this:

The commission’s report of January 1944 about Nazi crimes in Kiev, however, completely omitted referring to Jews. This studied neglect could only intimidate the roughly ten survivors who remained in the city, who generally kept a low profile. . . . Indeed, until 1991, the Soviet leadership consistently refused to acknowledge that the massacre of September 1941 amounted to an unparalleled war crime, namely, the attempt to kill every single Jew in the city at the time; and it prohibited meaningful commemorations. . . . The Jewish writer Lev Ozerov (1914-1996) [had] investigated Babi Yar for a Soviet Black Book on the Nazi murder of the Jews, edited in 1945 by Ilya Ehrenburg and Vasily Grossman, but the book was never published in the Soviet Union. . . . The loosening of censorship in the late 1950s and mid-1960s enabled the Russian writer Viktor Nekrasov (1911-1987), who lived in Kiev, to inquire in a periodical in October 1959 why no monument at Babi Yar had been erected. In September 1961, the poem “Babi Yar” was published by Yevgeny Yevtushenko (b. 1932), repeating Nekrasov’s question, adding, “In their callous rage, all anti-Semites must hate me now as a Jew.” Khrushchev publicly condemned the poem.

I am not an expert on Babi Yar, it is not my favorite topic - but I know these things. Why doesn't Nitiforuk? Why not Saggy? Or do they - and keep them hidden, as Eric Hunt warned that deniers do?

Another important paper on Babi Yar written by Karel Berkhoff - I heard him deliver a version in 2012 - is here, as it was eventually published. It's relevant to this discussion because Berhoff assesses the history of the site after the massacre there and especially the postwar history of the ravine, following the 1943 destruction of the mass graves and burning of corpses.

Berkhoff says (this is mostly from notes I took on his paper) that in late 1943 Soviet journalists were brought to Babi Yar, one later recalling that, despite the SK-1005 work at the site, parts of corpses were visible were earlier detonations had exposed them. Later regional NKVD organized excavation at Babi Yar found human remains (this excavation also included Syrets camp and was carried out by 823 German prisoners, one of whom later stated that 160 of the 823 chosen to excavate 5 graves had discovered burnt corpses and body parts). During the following years, locals, much as did locals at Treblnka (as Jan Gross has documented) dug for gold and treasure among the remains in the ravine. Babi Yar during these years began to used as an illegal dumping ground. Students at the School of Military Medicine made use of the walls of the ravine as a firing range.

In 1950, authorities decided to flood and fill the ravine. Water was pumped in - however, in 1961 the dam constructed to hold the muddy water back failed - and a large mudslide into the outskirts of Kiev ensue: “a mass of heavy dirt, built up over years, thirteen feet (four meters) high, streamed out and pushed into the city.” Berkhoff describes this lake water/mud mix as foul smelling and said that bones and other remains from the ravine were washed out of it. At least 145 residents died in this event, known as the Kurenivka Tragedy.

When the poet Yevtushenko visited the site in August 1961, he witnessed trucks dumping garbage into the still-flooded ravine. Even after the mudslide, during 1962, Berkhoff says, human remains including bones were still being turned up by locals in the area. Mid-decade saw children with sharp sticks digging up skulls. In summer of 1971 three American students visiting the USSR found human bones scattered over large area at site.

Today, over the now-filled-in ravine there is an arterial road (Novo-Okruzhna Street), completed in 1969. By the end of the 1970s the rest of the surface area had been made a “Park of Culture and Recreation” which includes, if my notes from Berkhoff's session are correct, a football stadium.

The revisionists that would say that today there should be x,y or z on or near the surface would seem to be ignorant of the postwar history of the site which Berkhoff has researched.

The Soviet conspiracy falls apart because of the existence of sources, because of the lack of archival proof for any such thing (which is why Nitiforuk gives no citation for his claim about Grossman & Ehrenburg, whose work, recall, was suppressed), and because it entirely ignores/misreads the history of Soviet suppression of the Jewish character of the genocide.

 

[LemmyCaution]

I'm just watching as you roll out the rope, which which I will hang the whole absurd argument and every lie in the entire charade. Remember, this is one of my favorite topics. Do your best

I take this to be your disingenuous way of saying that you cannot provide citations as requested for Nikiforuk’s claim about “almost every major historian, including 'Holocaust expert' Prof. Raul Hilberg” and his claim that “Soviet archival records reveal that the atrocity propaganda about Katyn and Babi Yar was fabricated by Ilya Ehrenburg and Vasily Grossman . . .” I make simple requests, you start playing games instead of replying. Because you have nothing?

I take this also to be your failure with the other questions I asked you about the material you linked to.

I fail to see how you can keep a straight face linking us to illiterate crap like this; Tiedemann's Wannsee "proof" is farcical. And so on.

You can play games like a 9-year-old, but I’m not playing games.

 

[Ivanesca]

The commission’s report of January 1944 about Nazi crimes in Kiev, however, completely omitted referring to Jews. This studied neglect could only intimidate the roughly ten survivors who remained in the city, who generally kept a low profile. . . . Indeed, until 1991, the Soviet leadership consistently refused to acknowledge that the massacre of September 1941 amounted to an unparalleled war crime, namely, the attempt to kill every single Jew in the city at the time; and it prohibited meaningful commemorations

And this is one of the many reasons why the fantasy of "Jewish Communism" doesn't hold water. The many anti Jewish policies of the USSR make it crystal clear that whatever their (low) participation in the USSR, Jews did not dominate, dictate or define Soviet policy. Communism and Bolshevism involved more non Jews than it ever did Jews, and neither of them was a Jewish conspiracy or plot to benefit the Jews at the expense of non Jews.

Saggy will ignore this, as usual.

 

[Nessie]

.......

Here is the reality, the absurd lies of Irene Zizblatt carry the full authority of Steven Spielberg, the Academy Awards, the rabbis and holohoax scholars that vetted the movie and that were listed in the credits, plus every Jew, rabbi, academic, and government official in the US, none of which exposed the obvious blatant preposterous and degenerate lies of Zizblatt. If I'm wrong name the member of USHMM, Yad Vashem, a US university, the US govt, and rabbi in the US, that has denounced the absurdities of Speilberg's movie.

The holohoax is not what didn't happen in WW II, the holohoax is the lies that are being told now, by every Jew in the US and the world and every member of every news and academic organization and government in the US, either actively by repeating the lies or passively by not exposing them. It is real. Here is the proof.

.....

Proof would be you showing mass transits and survival from the AR camps and c101,000 more Dutch Jews being liberated in 1944/5.

You are claiming a hoax that requires the active involvement of millions of people, many of whom are not acting to their advantage.

 

[Degeneve]

Well written, what an excellent presentation.

Unfortunately, while well presented, the content is all garbage, as I'll now demonstrate ....

Interview With Professor
Robert Faurisson

I can't believe you managed to cite Faurisson.

For the sake of completeness, Faurisson is professor of French, not of history where he has largely demonstrated his incompetence, to say the least.

A couple of months ago a French court has ruled that calling Faurisson a "professional liar", a "counterfeiter" and a "forger of history" in a newspaper article was not defamation but the mere expression of a true reality.

The funny thing is that it was Faurisson, as quite often, who was suing the French newspaper "Le Monde" and its journalist Ariane Chemin for libel. At the end, not only did he not succeed but he ended up in a much worse shape than at the beginning with a French court stating that calling him a "professional liar", a "counterfeiter" and a "forger of history" merely reflects the truth.

And this is the guy you want us to us as an "expert" on Babi Yar and, more generally, on the Holocaust? Seriously? You must be kidding...

 

[Nessie]

Well written, what an excellent presentation.

Unfortunately, while well presented, the content is all garbage, as I'll now demonstrate ....

What Happend at Babi Yar, Fact vs. Myth

The Moral and Intellectual Bankruptcy of a Scholar

BABI YAR
Why do so many believe in the absurd Holocaustᵀᴹ myth?

Air Photo Evidence - Holocaust Handbooks

Interview With Professor
Robert Faurisson

David Irving -
What Happened at Babi Yar, Fact vs. Myth

Babi Yar - Critical Comments
and Questions

Mass Graves at Vinnitsia, Poems for Babi Yar

I hope these articles bring you to a full realization of the absurdity of the Babi Yar hoax.

None of those articles provide any evidence of mass transits from Babi Yar or survival of the 33,771 Kiev Jews reported in the OSR of 02/10/41 to have been executed.

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/einsatz/situationreport101.html

Ignoring the consequences of claiming no mass murder took place, totally discredits all of the denialist claims.

Claiming hoax means you are claiming a massive CT whereby up to 100,000 people form Kiev and the surrounding area agreed not to return after the war ended and to hide elsewhere, in the knowledge they were being recorded as dead by historians and governments.

 

[Nessie]

Here is denialist Graf claiming Babi Yar was a hoax, therefore the Holocaust is a hoax without acknowledging the need to evidence mass survival;

https://www.inconvenienthistory.com/3/4/3167

"So the report from 7 October 1941, which mentions an imaginary slaughter, is a fraud."

Ironically that claim is in an article called "The Moral and Intellectual Bankruptcy of a Scholar".

Denialism consists of failing to evidence or prove the claimed mass survival of Jews and others and instead attacking the evidence of mass killing with a series of arguments from incredulity, ignorance and non sequiturs.

 

[LemmyCaution]

I can't believe you managed to cite Faurisson.

I can.

For the sake of completeness, Faurisson is professor of French, not of history where he has largely demonstrated his incompetence, to say the least..

On Babi Yar no less . . . Fauri wrote, in the linked piece, that

At the Nuremberg trial, the place name 'Babi Yar' (in fact, the name of a ravine outside Kiev)? didn't come up . . .

Except the name came up in Count Three, charge A of the indictment: “In Babi Yar, near Kiev, they shot over 100,000 men, women, children, and old people.” p 49, vol I Blue Series. And in Rudenko's summation, on Kaltenbrunner, albeit with the misstatement that at Babi Yar “100,000 Soviet citizens perished on a single day” (note Rudenko's saying "Soviet citizens" conforming to Ivanesca's points above) (p 599 vol XIX, Blue Series).

(By the way, this history helps rubbish the claim we read about above that Grossman & Ehrenburg fabricated the Babi Yar massacre in the war years: if they did, why wasn't their fabrication used - say, at the IMT - by the fabricators?)

Also, Fauri's point is meant to sound important without substance - and with a bit of trickery by omission: the IMT occurred prior to discovery of the most important evidence about the EGs, the EMs, and was where Ohlendorf revealed at a high level only what the EGs did.

Fauri also made the dumb argument that, having lost on the gas chambers, those who never lost on the gas chambers are now emphasizing the Einsatzgruppen: "This ''Shoah by bullets' is now summoned to replace the 'Shoah by gas'." No, it complements the mass murder committed in the camps, is summoned, so to speak, to get the numbers and proportions right, and never went away. The first books I read on the Holocaust, back in the '80s, dealt at length with the EGs, just for example.

And Fauri musters all his faux scholarship to tell us this:

a certain document simply reported, in one sentence, that the Germans in Kiev, which they'd recently taken, had, following a spate of arson attacks blamed on NKVD agents, arrested, in a reprisal measure, all the city's Jews, then, on the 29th and 30th of September 1941, had apparently transported a number of them in the direction of the locality known as Babi Yar to execute, in the end - take note of this figure: marvel at the precision - no fewer than 33,771! The document is neither dated nor signed.

It's one of a set selected by a lieutenant Walter Rothschild of London. In itself, what this sentence relates is implausible.

I didn't look into Rothschild's work in London for the simple reason that, as we can see from Hans Metzner's piece on Babi Yar documents, the death toll of 33,771 was reported in "Activity report USSR no. 101 of the RSHA of 2 October 1941 that 'on 29 and 30 September 1941, 33,771 Jews were executed in Kiev'"; also in EM 106 (" the Sonderkommando 4a executed on 29 and 30 September 33,771 Jews"); and also in "Operational and Situation report of the Einsatzgruppen in the USSR no. 6 for the period 1 to 31 October 1941 on 'as a measure of retaliation for the arson at Kiev, all Jews were arrested and altogether 33,771 Jews were executed on 29 and 30 September'."

(Btw, anyone who's read through the EMs knows that the use of specific numbers was common and not at all suspiciously precise. E.g., no. 129: "During the last two weeks, the activity of the Kommandos and Einsatzgruppen consisted mainly in searches and in finishing off partisan groups. Besides, more places were freed of Jews, and inquiries were made concerning Bandera followers. During the time under report, 11,037 Jews and 31 Communist officials and saboteurs were executed. In all: 31, 767.")

I'll wait for Saggy to dodge telling us about Lieutenant Rothschild.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Here is denialist Graf claiming Babi Yar was a hoax, therefore the Holocaust is a hoax without acknowledging the need to evidence mass survival;

https://www.inconvenienthistory.com/3/4/3167

"So the report from 7 October 1941, which mentions an imaginary slaughter, is a fraud."

Saggy has so far ignored the request to explain what this fraud was and how it was perpetrated.

 

[Degeneve]

I can.


I'll wait for Saggy to dodge telling us about Lieutenant Rothschild.

If Faurisson took care of naming a Lieutenant Rotschild it's not a coincidence but merely a regurgitation of his well documented antisemitism...

 

[LemmyCaution]

Has it struck anyone else as odd that our resident Babi Yar scholar, Saggy ("Remember, this is one of my favorite topics. Do your best") has not known until now about EM 97, one of the cornerstone pieces of evidence about the Babi Yar massacre?

You've got to be kidding. I can't analyze evidence you have not described. I did google the first item on your list ....

1. Ereignismeldung UdSSR 97, 28.9.41 - planning of action

It came up with two hits, both in lists by Terry. There is no sense trying to refute something that cannot even be googled.

So, it is on you present the evidence, described in your own words, with links as appropriate.

I find this funny.

 

[LemmyCaution]

If Faurisson took care of naming a Lieutenant Rotschild it's not a coincidence but merely a regurgitation of his well documented antisemitism...

This was an officer working for the OSS on captured documents - mentioned here - but I've not read of his connection to this particular set of documents and will look into that later. Rothschild documents are labeled "R" in the Nuremberg series. There's a gap in my knowledge of the archives here.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Ok, I poked around a bit. Fauri is referring to 1 of the 3 documents I mentioned in my post, to scholars it's known as 102-R, in IMT Blue Series, vol. XXXVIII, pp 292-293, TuLB no. 6:

Juden.

Die Erbitterung der ukrainischen Bevolkerung gegen die Juden ist aurjerordentlich groB, da man ihnen die Schuld an den Sprengungen in Kiew zuschreibt. Auch sieht man in ihnen die Zutrager und Agenten des NKWD, die den Terror gegen das ukrainische Volk heraufbeschworen haben. Als VergeltungsmaBnahme fur die Brandstiftungen in Kiew wurden samtliche Juden verhaftet und am 29. und 30.9. insgesamt 33 771 Juden exekutiert. Geld, Wertsachen und Bekleidung wurden sichergestellt und der NSV zur Ausrustung derVolksdeutschen und 2.T. auch der kommissarischen Stadtverwaltung zur tfberlassung an die bediirftige Bevolkerung zur Verfiigung gestellt.

My bad translation from Google: “Jews. The exasperation of the Ukrainian population against the Jews is of the utmost importance, as they are blamed for the explosions in Kiev. You can also see in them the trespassers and agents of the NKVD, who have created terror against the Ukrainian people. As a retaliatory measure for the fires in Kiev, all Jews were arrested, and on the 29th and 30th of September, a total of 33,771 Jews were executed. Money, valuables and clothing were ensured, and the NSV was equipped to outfit the Volksdeutsche and 2.T. Also to the municipal administration of the city, to be placed at the disposal of the necessary population.”

Hans Metzner listed this document as his #16 (“Operational and Situation report of the Einsatzgruppen in the USSR no. 6 for the period 1 to 31 October 1941 on ‘as a measure of retaliation for the arson at Kiev, all Jews were arrested and altogether 33,771 Jews were executed on 29 and 30 September” - go with Hans’ translation over mine!) and Faurisson ignored the two earlier German documents with the same figure in them. Fauri also ignored the details in no. 6 on the disposition of property of the murdered Jews, a matter important to the German authorities (see Hans Metzner's "21.- 33.) 13 contemporary photographs of Johannes Hähle of Propagandakompanie").

The document is marked state secret and the 42nd copy out of 100 (p 279). There are, as noted, two corroborating documents just from the EMs and the other corroborating evidence cited in this thread and detailed by Hans Metzner.

 

[LemmyCaution]

None of those articles provide any evidence of mass transits from Babi Yar or survival of the 33,771 Kiev Jews reported in the OSR of 02/10/41 to have been executed.

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/einsatz/situationreport101.html

Ignoring the consequences of claiming no mass murder took place, totally discredits all of the denialist claims.

Claiming hoax means you are claiming a massive CT whereby up to 100,000 people form Kiev and the surrounding area agreed not to return after the war ended and to hide elsewhere, in the knowledge they were being recorded as dead by historians and governments.

Saggy owes us a simple account of how so much disparate evidence discussed here came into existence ("was hoaxed") for the Babi Yar massacre. Saggy is a self-proclaimed expert on this topic so doing so should be a snap for him.

 

[Nick Terry]

Note that TuLB Nr 6 exists in at least three separate copies in three separate locations, two on the western side of the Iron Curtain and one in Soviet possession.

YVA O.18/9 = TuLB Nr 6 in R-102 version, 42nd copy. This is a photocopy. You can compare formatting and content with the copy in O.53/3.

YVA M.9/360 = TuLB Nr 6, in Linz documentation centre collection so copied from NMT materials (NO-2656). This is a transcript, and indeed a translation, but is marked 34th copy and has a handwritten DII 211 which sounds rather like Abteilung Deutschland.

The original of this doc is microfilmed in NARA T120 in the United States and archived in the Politisches Archiv des Auswaertigen Amtes in Germany.

YVA O.53/3 includes TuLB Nr 6, copies from Ludwigsburg Dokumentensammlung UdSSR i.e. Osobyi Arkhiv (RGVA) 500-1-25, as is clearly indicated on the first page of the file. On p.44 of the file, either at the end of TuLB Nr 5 or just before TuLB Nr 6, a note says 16th copy, which fits with the file coming from the RSHA records given the usual cascade of copies and recipients.

YVA O.51/20 has the TuLBs from Nr 6 upwards but omits Nr 6 due to incomplete uploading; the other reports have DII markings and the distinctive Foreign Office running pagination. These are photocopies.

YVA P.13/139 has more NMT stuff incl more translated copies of TuLBs from the Ministries trial vs Foreign Office diplomats.

YVA O.51/15 has more photocopied TuLBs but starts with a copy of the original Nazi file cover sheet for the Abteilung Deutschland of the Foreign Office.

 

[LemmyCaution]

Thanks much, that really drives a stake into the heart of the Graf-Faurisson fraud claims. And exposes Faurisson's "argument" as the cheap stunt it is.

 

[Saggy]

Anyone examining the holohoax will quickly discover that someone is lying, that is, either the hoaxers are deliberately and systematically lying, or the deniers are deliberately and systematically lying. And the lying is 100% pervasive, that is, practically everything that one side is writing/saying is a lie.

That's why Zizblatt is an important part of the holocaust hoax, because her lies are transparent, preposterous, degenerate. And her lies have the full support of Yad Vashem, the USHMM, the rabbis and academics that are credited in the movie, every academic and govt. official in the US, none of whom have exposed the lies, Steven Spielberg and the entire Hollywood establishment including the Academy Awards organization, and every hoaxer save J. Neander, a Polish blogger.

Now, I will confess I'm slightly amazed that the hoax establishment is so confident that they can promote prima facie degenerates like Zizblatt, but I have a theory on that too.

What that means for Babi Yar is thtat unless there is physical evidence, it is safe to assume that the hoaxers are lying. And of course, there is no physical evidence, that is, no bodies, and no murder weapons, in this case bullets. In fact there is no physical evidence of the crime whatever. Hence, it is preposterous from the start.

But, like most liars, the hoaxers were not content to leave it at that. So, they arrested Paul Blobel, a Nazi officer who had been relieved of his duties for drunkeness, and put him on trial for destroying the evidence.

He confessed, and we have his confession.

The Einsatzgruppen: Obliterating the Traces of Bodies of Jews Killed by the Einsatzgruppen

"3. During my visit in August I myself observed the burning of bodies in a mass grave near Kiev. This grave was about 55 m. long, 3 m. wide and 2½ m. deep. After the top had been removed the bodies were covered with inflammable material and ignited. It took about two days until the grave burned down to the bottom. I myself observed that the fire had glowed down to the bottom. After that the grave was filled in and the traces were now practically obliterated."

Blobel was the head of Aktion 1005 which was responsible for destroying all traces of Nazi crimes on the eastern front and in the camps. Now, Aktion 1005 is preposterous from the start and there is not a shred of physical evidence that it existed, but we'll let that pass for now, since we have Blobel's confession to examine.

And, Blobel's confession is just as absurd as Zizblatt's lies. Here is why, you cannot cremate a body by pouring a flammable liquid on it and igniting the liquid. The flames will be above the body and the body will for the most part not even be singed. This is obvious, but, just for fun, I did a little experiment on my own, and I'm pretty sure I took photos but I can't find them, so, you'll just have to trust me, or better yet, repeat the experiment, it costs next to nothing and is 100% definitive on the issue. Take a cut up chicken, place it in a pyrex baking dish, cover or partially cover the chicken with gasoline, and ignite the gas. The gas will burn for an hour or so and go out, the chicken will be right where it was when you started, not cremated, not cooked, for the most part unsinged.

All of Aktion 1005 is based on Blobel's completely absurd confession. The confession is a hoax, Aktion 1005 is a hoax, and Babi Yar is a hoax.