Alexis Didier French clairvoyant

[Darat]

Would agree with some of your points but do you have any ideas on how he duped Robert-Houdin a professional magician?

The Bible talks about how magicians such as Moses could turn staffs into serpents. Do you have any evidence Moses couldn't do this?

 

[Kid Eager]

The Bible talks about how magicians such as Moses could turn staffs into serpents. Do you have any evidence Moses couldn't do this?

Well snake oil has been around since forever, so I suspect that once Moses lubricated his snake, it loosened up. Easy to see how this could become lost in translation over time. Or something.

 

[Craig B]

The Bible talks about how magicians such as Moses could turn staffs into serpents. Do you have any evidence Moses couldn't do this?

It seems just about everyone could do that. Moses' brother Aaron could do it. Pharaoh's wizards could do it.

And Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh and before his servants, and it became a serpent. But Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers; so the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments (Exodus 7:10-11).​

Nothing special.

 

[Crossbow]

lol

After you are finished laughing, then I hope that you will do yourself a favor and actually find out what and "anti-scientific outlook" really is.

 

[BillSkeptic]

The Bible talks about how magicians such as Moses could turn staffs into serpents. Do you have any evidence Moses couldn't do this?

1. Moses was not a magician
2. The Bible is mostly a fictitious book filled with contradictions and fabrications
3. There is no evidence Moses existed
4. What has Moses got to do with Alexis Didier?
5. No I do not have any evidence for what Moses supposedly could and could not do!
6. Last time I checked we were not discussing religion. We were Alexis Didier, a man who has been well documented, tested by a magician and scientists and lived in the 19th century.

 

[Darat]

1. Moses was not a magician
2. The Bible is mostly a fictitious book filled with contradictions and fabrications
3. There is no evidence Moses existed
4. What has Moses got to do with Alexis Didier?
5. No I do not have any evidence for what Moses supposedly could and could not do!
6. Last time I checked we were not discussing religion. We were Alexis Didier, a man who has been well documented, tested by a magician and scientists and lived in the 19th century.

I should have set my sights lower.

 

[BillSkeptic]

I should have set my sights lower.

Why are you talking about Moses on a thread about Alex Didier? Do you have any comments about what this thread is about. Alex Didier

 

[BillSkeptic]

After you are finished laughing, then I hope that you will do yourself a favor and actually find out what and "anti-scientific outlook" really is.

I did look up the subject and I could not find any data on this Alexis Didier person.

There are about 200 accessible books and booklets on Google books that mention Alex Didier. But sure no data exists

 

[BillSkeptic]

My guess would be by using tricks he'd invented that Robert-Houdin didn't know. Guessing is all we can do over a century later but new tricks are still invented by magicians occasionally, and even other magicians can't always work out how they're done, so that would seem the most likely explanation.

Didier was 21 years old when he was tested by Robert-Houdin yet he outsmarted him.

Would you agree then that if Didier was a magician utilizing trickery, he must have been one of the greatest magicians of all time?

 

[Pixel42]

Didier was 21 years old when he was tested by Robert-Houdin yet he outsmarted him.

Would you agree then that if Didier was a magician utilizing trickery, he must have been one of the greatest magicians of all time?

Judging by the quotes presented on this thread Robert-Houdin was surprisingly easy to bamboozle. Didier didn't need to be a great magician, or even a particularly good one, just a bright young man with a trick or two that was new to Robert-Houdin.

 

[Crossbow]

There are about 200 accessible books and booklets on Google books that mention Alex Didier. But sure no data exists

You are a quite unscientific person.

If you actually have such data, then you should provide such data since you are the one who is asking about Alexis Didier.

I did check 'Google Books' and by doing so I did find a book entitled A World in a Grain of Sand: The Clairnoyance of Stefan Ossieki which does mention Alexis Didier a few times, but there are certainly not the 200 works about Alexis Didier that you describe.

https://books.google.com/books?id=e...JClgQ6AEIKzAB#v=onepage&q=Alex Didier&f=false

So if you have better data on Didier, then use a scientific approach to resolve your issue and share this data about Didier.

 

[Darat]

Why are you talking about Moses on a thread about Alex Didier? Do you have any comments about what this thread is about. Alex Didier

Or perhaps underground.

 

[xjx388]

Didier was 21 years old when he was tested by Robert-Houdin yet he outsmarted him.

Would you agree then that if Didier was a magician utilizing trickery, he must have been one of the greatest magicians of all time?

The problem is that you want us to evaluate a clairvoyant who lived quite a long time ago. All we have is descriptions of what he did along with some contemporary accounts. How are we supposed to evaluate whether or not his magic was real powers or tricks?

What we are left with is the fact that every person who claims similar things and has been tested has proven to be using trickery. There is no reason to suspect that Didier did anything different from his contemporary peers.

As to whether or not fooling one magician (who may not have been as well-versed in magic as his legend suggests) is enough to say he is one of the greatest of all time, I don't think so. We don't have enough info to evaluate that claim either.

 

[BillSkeptic]

You are a quite unscientific person.

If you actually have such data, then you should provide such data since you are the one who is asking about Alexis Didier.

I did check 'Google Books' and by doing so I did find a book entitled A World in a Grain of Sand: The Clairnoyance of Stefan Ossieki which does mention Alexis Didier a few times, but there are certainly not the 200 works about Alexis Didier that you describe.

https://books.google.com/books?id=e...JClgQ6AEIKzAB#v=onepage&q=Alex Didier&f=false

So if you have better data on Didier, then use a scientific approach to resolve your issue and share this data about Didier.

Perhaps type into Google books his real name which brings up many books. Tip: His name is "Alexis Didier". Not "Alex Didier".

Would agree you do not get much information on an "Alex Didier" but then again that isn't his real name!

But sure great scientific research you are doing. You can't even get his name correct when researching the man

If you actually have such data, then you should provide such data since you are the one who is asking about Alexis Didier.

Already quoted from three books that mention him. But sure no data exists.

 

[BillSkeptic]

In the first few lines of the Introduction we see this devastating assessment.

Robert-Houdin's explanation of tricks performed by other magicians and not included in his repertoire, proved so incorrect and inaccurate as to brand him an ignoramus in certain lines of conjuring.​

An entirely valid point but note that this has been disputed:

The publication ultimately did more to tarnish Houdini's reputation than to refute Robert-Houdin's claims to originality and distinction especially in France, where magicians rallied to defend their spiritual progenitor against aspersions cast by an American parvenu.

Jones, Graham M. (2011). Trade of the Tricks: Inside the Magician's Craft. University of California Press. p. 208.

"Stung by the refusal of the widow of Robert-Houdin's son Emile to receive him in 1901, Houdini launched a literary vendetta against his former hero in the form of a book, The Unmasking of Robert-Houdin, published seven years later. While the book did not achieve its aim, it remains of considerable historical interest as the first sustained attempt to mine Houdini's large and growing collection for historical information. Its errors and oversights became the subject of two extensive rebuttals. The first was Maurice Sardina's Les Erreurs de Harry Houdini, translated and edited by Victor Farelli as Where Houdini Was Wrong. The second was Jean Hugard's Houdini's "Unmasking": Fact vs Fiction."

Inge, M. Thomas; Hall, Dennis. (2002). The Greenwood Guide to American Popular Culture, Volume 3. Greenwood Press. p. 1037.

 

[BillSkeptic]

The problem is that you want us to evaluate a clairvoyant who lived quite a long time ago. All we have is descriptions of what he did along with some contemporary accounts. How are we supposed to evaluate whether or not his magic was real powers or tricks?

What we are left with is the fact that every person who claims similar things and has been tested has proven to be using trickery. There is no reason to suspect that Didier did anything different from his contemporary peers.

As to whether or not fooling one magician (who may not have been as well-versed in magic as his legend suggests) is enough to say he is one of the greatest of all time, I don't think so. We don't have enough info to evaluate that claim either.

I am not really asking for anyone to evaluate whether or not he had genuine powers, we are dealing with historical matters. He was never detected in fraud but from what I have read so far it was entirely possible and likely he may have been a fraud.

I started this thread for a request to help into researching the man and his life or if anyone had heard of him and could help me with my research. I do not believe in paranormal powers but I will not call a man a fraud without even researching the man beforehand. I believe all claims should be investigated, even historical ones. Just calling a man a fraud without even reading up on him is what I object to, that is not skepticism.

 

[BillSkeptic]

Or perhaps underground.

facepalm. As an admin you should post things which are on topic in relation to the thread. Perhaps I can report your posts so another admin can delete them

 

[Lucian]

Why are you talking about Moses on a thread about Alex Didier? Do you have any comments about what this thread is about. Alex Didier

There are about 200 accessible books and booklets on Google books that mention Alex Didier. But sure no data exists

You are a quite unscientific person.

If you actually have such data, then you should provide such data since you are the one who is asking about Alexis Didier.

I did check 'Google Books' and by doing so I did find a book entitled A World in a Grain of Sand: The Clairnoyance of Stefan Ossieki which does mention Alexis Didier a few times, but there are certainly not the 200 works about Alexis Didier that you describe.

https://books.google.com/books?id=e...JClgQ6AEIKzAB#v=onepage&q=Alex Didier&f=false

So if you have better data on Didier, then use a scientific approach to resolve your issue and share this data about Didier.

Perhaps type into Google books his real name which brings up many books. Tip: His name is "Alexis Didier". Not "Alex Didier".
Would agree you do not get much information on an "Alex Didier" but then again that isn't his real name!
But sure great scientific research you are doing. You can't even get his name correct when researching the man



Already quoted from three books that mention him. But sure no data exists.

Wait, who can't get his name right? You have referred to Didier as "Alex Didier" several times, including in the post to which Crossbow was responding. In his post, Crossbow called Didier "Alexis Didier," and there's nothing to indicate that the post was edited. Now you're chastising him for calling Didier "Alex Didier"?!

 

[BillSkeptic]

Wait, who can't get his name right? You have referred to Didier as "Alex Didier" several times, including in the post to which Crossbow was responding. In his post, Crossbow called Didier "Alexis Didier," and there's nothing to indicate that the post was edited. Now you're chastising him for calling Didier "Alex Didier"?!

I may have referred to Didier several times on this forum incorrectly out of many mentions of the man. Look at his Google search though. He is searching "Alex Didier" and got very little hits. He then comes back and says there is no data on "Alexis Didier" but he was typing in the wrong name, he was spelling it "Alex". That is not good research. Do you think it is good research? Claiming no data exists on someone because you are misspelling his name. Remember I am not the one claiming no data exists on this guy, he is.

He stills holds the false claim that there is no data on Alexis Didier. But I will wait till he acknowledges his mistake.

 

[BillSkeptic]

Judging by the quotes presented on this thread Robert-Houdin was surprisingly easy to bamboozle. Didier didn't need to be a great magician, or even a particularly good one, just a bright young man with a trick or two that was new to Robert-Houdin.

Well I disagree with your statement in bold. You are talking about the father of modern magic here not some amateur!

French conjurer Jean-Eugène Robert-Houdin's innovations earned him the sobriquet "the father of modern magic."

https://www.biography.com/people/robert-houdin-9344559

Jean-Eugène Robert-Houdin, original name Jean-Eugène Robert (born Dec. 6, 1805, Blois, Fr.—died June 13, 1871, St. Gervais, near Blois), French magician who is considered to be the father of modern conjuring. He was the first magician to use electricity; he improved the signalling method for the “thought transference” trick; and he exposed “fakes” and magicians who relied on supernatural explanations for their feats.

https://www.britannica.com/biography/Jean-Eugene-Robert-Houdin

Throughout history all arts, all human acts, have had their ups and downs. Painting, music, literature… all arts evolved and reached new heights no one would have imagined before thanks to the genius of people who devoted their lives to taking something that already existed, revolutionize it and set it on a new path. In the art of magic, one of these people was, without a doubt, Jean Eugène Robert Houdin, considered the father of modern magic.

http://magicagora.com/2011/11/10/robert-houdin-father-of-the-modern-magic/?lang=en

The father of modern magic was easily bamboozled? What makes you say this?