General Holocaust denial discussion Part III

[Saggy]

For heaven's sake did you actually READ what I posted,

I read it as the degenerate idiocy that it is.

 

[smartcooky]

I read it as the degenerate idiocy that it is.

Accusing me of being a "degenerative idiot" is a personal attack, and ought to get you an infraction.

Lift your game Saggy. You seem incapable of actually arguing, debating and supporting the position you have taken up. Here's a clue for you... posting shiploads of links to arguments that have been thoroughly debunked multiple times in the last 20 years is not supporting your argument. Its making you look like the NKOTB; you haven't been around long enough to recognize debunked arguments when you see them.

 

[Saggy]

Accusing me of being a "degenerative idiot" is a personal attack, and ought to get you an infraction.

Lift your game Saggy. You seem incapable of actually arguing, debating and supporting the position you have taken up. Here's a clue for you... posting shiploads of links to arguments that have been thoroughly debunked multiple times in the last 20 years is not supporting your argument. Its making you look like the NKOTB; you haven't been around long enough to recognize debunked arguments when you see them.

I didn't accuse you of anything, I said your comment was degenerate idiocy, which it was.

You calling me ignorant was a personal attack. Learn the difference.

And, I'm an expert on hasbara, trust me.

"posting shiploads" - Apparently your fondness for scatology is frowned upon here.

 

[smartcooky]

You calling me ignorant was a personal attack. Learn the difference.

I know the difference. The term "ignorant" was not an insult in the context in which I used it. Learn to read, and especially, learn some comprehension!!

And, I'm an expert on hasbara, trust me.

No, I don't trust you. You have not shown any reason why anyone should trust your word, because you refuse to debate honestly, and while you might claim to be an expert on hasbara, I see no evidence of it here, but plenty evidence that you dish it out by the truckload! Posting vile Holocaust Denial propaganda dos not make you any kind of expert.

"posting shiploads" - Apparently your fondness for scatology is frowned upon here.

What has that to do with scatology?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/shipload

 

[Elagabalus]

Thank goodness the Jews didn't understand German, the whole 'shower room' ruse would have been for nothing.

What about lice. Did they understand German? The first pic from CH is in fact the gas Disinfection door from Dachau which the Germans used to disinfect clothes using Zyklon-B. It takes much more Zyklon-B to kill tiny lice and much more time which is why the Gassing times are written on the door. You probably don't believe me so I'll quote another antisemite, Robert Frenz, shredding Leuchter's famous report.

Higher concentrations of HCN are needed to kill fleas, bedbugs (they need a lot of gassing!) and lice than would be necessary for human beings or Bushbunnies. So there. My blue is bluer than your blue. Mr. Leuchter also overlooks the fact that crowded rooms get very warm. People are actually radiant heaters and so are the cows which heat up cow barns. Revisionists spend too much time in isolation to know this.

This is all from that link I gave you the other day:

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/05/rebutting-twitter-denial-most-popular.html

It also has info on the door in the other picture.

 

[Nessie]

I read it as the degenerate idiocy that it is.

Doors to delousing rooms that have been mis-captioned as gas chambers, doors to a bad reconstruction of Krema I made after the war, does not disprove the mass murder of millions in gas chambers.

What would disprove the claim would be proof of mass transits away from the AR camps and proof c34,000 Dutch Jews lived on after Sobibor.

But you refuse to look at that issue, let alone debate it. You have lost the debate and your attempts to salvage something by hanging around are failing badly too.

 

[smartcooky]

What would disprove the claim would be proof of mass transits away from the AR camps and proof c34,000 Dutch Jews lived on after Sobibor.

But you refuse to look at that issue, let alone debate it. You have lost the debate and your attempts to salvage something by hanging around are failing badly too.

And of course he can't because he knows full well that to do so would mean the carefully crafted fiction that is Holocaust Denial will collapse like a house of cards. Intellectual dishonesty at its worst!

Saggy's Holohoax and the over 100,000 missing Dutch Jews are mutually exclusive; they cannot both be true. The fact that 100,000 Dutch Jews were missing at the end of the war, and the lack of 34,000 Dutch Jews still living at Sobibor at the end of the war can be proven... and that leaves the Holohoax as a monstrous work of fiction....

 

[Degeneve]

What about lice. Did they understand German? The first pic from CH is in fact the gas Disinfection door from Dachau which the Germans used to disinfect clothes using Zyklon-B. It takes much more Zyklon-B to kill tiny lice and much more time which is why the Gassing times are written on the door. You probably don't believe me so I'll quote another antisemite, Robert Frenz, shredding Leuchter's famous report.

This is also confirmed by Eugen Kogon, Hermann Langbein and Adalbert Rückerl in their book Nationalsozialistische Massentötungen durch Giftgas. The picture fits with Kogon & al. description of the 4 delousing chambers at Dachau.

Beside Dachau was a concentration camp and not an extermination camp. There is still a debate going on between historians on whether gassings actually took place in Dachau and if it was the case how many people were killed by gassing. The main consensus is that a very limited number of gassings took place within the framework of Sigmund Rascher's "experiments".

 

[LemmyCaution]

It also has info on the door in the other picture.

To wit: "The door with a window (or a missing upper panel) is the door to the washroom, not to the morgue/gas chamber."

Which raises the question why the photo was posted here in the first place?

 

[LemmyCaution]

Saggy's Holohoax and the over 100,000 missing Dutch Jews are mutually exclusive; they cannot both be true. The fact that 100,000 Dutch Jews were missing at the end of the war. . . .

Saggy has virtually nothing to say about this, including even about the most elementary aspect of the problem: were in his view over 100,000 Jews deported from the Netherlands to "somewhere" (David Cole, whom I never thought I'd be quoting, calls this mysterious place "Unicornville")? Total silence from Saggy, and other deniers in the thread, on this basic question when it was asked . . . why, given such a performance, would anyone seriously take anything Saggy or others claim?

 

[LemmyCaution]

Upthread I posted that Eric Hunt has repudiated Holocaust denial but that his webpage, Questioning the Holocaust has been taken down.

I've found an archive copy of the page for Saggy to ponder here (The End of the Line) - and, in the spirit of helping wayward folks find their way, also offer him this recantation of denial ("Holocaust Denial Is Chutzpah") by another erstwhile revisionist, Christian Lindtner.

These links should help Saggy catch up to his "movement" . . .

 

[Degeneve]

To wit: "The door with a window (or a missing upper panel) is the door to the washroom, not to the morgue/gas chamber."

Which raises the question why the photo was posted here in the first place?

Good question. It is a recurring meme on the denial sites.

Krema I in Auschwitz was rebuilt in 1943 in order to become an air raid shelter for the SS guards of the camp. On this occasion several interior walls were build in what has been the gas chamber (see plans here and here. After the war the Krema I was rebuilt in its (supposed) original state, but in fact many mistakes occurred in the process (see here). Among other mistakes one wall (in dashed line on the plan) is missing which makes the gas chamber shown to the visitors longer that it actually was. The wooden door which opens on what is shown as the gas chamber has never been the door to the gas chambers itself. It is in fact the door between rooms shown under "a" and "b" in this plan.

More information about Krema I can be found here (chapter II of Jean-Claude Pressac's book AUSCHWITZ:
Technique and operation of the gas chambers

 

[LemmyCaution]

Good question. It is a recurring meme on the denial sites.

Krema I in Auschwitz was rebuilt in 1943 in order to become an air raid shelter for the SS guards of the camp. On this occasion several interior walls were build in what has been the gas chamber (see plans here and here. After the war the Krema I was rebuilt in its (supposed) original state, but in fact many mistakes occurred in the process (see here). Among other mistakes one wall (in dashed line on the plan) is missing which makes the gas chamber shown to the visitors longer that it actually was. The wooden door which opens on what is shown as the gas chamber has never been the door to the gas chambers itself. It is in fact the door between rooms shown under "a" and "b" in this plan.

More information about Krema I can be found here (chapter II of Jean-Claude Pressac's book AUSCHWITZ:
Technique and operation of the gas chambers

Yeah, I was wondering whether Captain Howdy was unaware of the material on this door, sloppy, or posting something he hoped readers wouldn't check on.

 

[Saggy]

Doors to delousing rooms that have been mis-captioned as gas chambers, doors to a bad reconstruction of Krema I made after the war, does not disprove the mass murder of millions in gas chambers.

What is does prove without a shadow of a doubt is that the purveyors of the holocaust hoax are degenerate liars the likes of which the world has never seen.

If you want to believe them on the six million, that's your prerogative.

 

[Degeneve]

What is does prove without a shadow of a doubt is that the purveyors of the holocaust hoax are degenerate liars the likes of which the world has never seen.

If you want to believe them on the six million, that's your prerogative.

Once you're looking at proven fact there is no room for beliefs anymore. Beliefs are with the denialists who have been unable to provide any reliable evidence for their claims...

 

[LemmyCaution]

Once you're looking at proven fact there is no room for beliefs anymore. Beliefs are with the denialists who have been unable to provide any reliable evidence for their claims...

But we do know his favorite word, degenerate, which he uses without apparent reason to modify that with which he disagrees . . .

 

[Saggy]

But we do know his favorite word, degenerate, which he uses without apparent reason to modify that with which he disagrees . . .

See post #2751 in this tread ...

""the degenerate lies of the hoax." Why 'degenerate'? We are accustomed to heroic lies, but to lie about one's craven cowardness and weakness, with Jewish sondercommandos cajoling their friends and relatives, even mothers and daughters, to stroll into the gas chambers, is really a unique phenomenon on the world stage."


A degenerate lies is the polar opposite of a heroic lie, and hence totally foreign to the goyim. All the lies of the holohoax are degenerate lies.

 

[Border Reiver]

A degenerate lies is the polar opposite of a heroic lie, and hence totally foreign to the goyim. All the lies of the holohoax are degenerate lies.

Given the overwhelming evidence of the Holocaust, the only lies are those of the deniers.

 

[LemmyCaution]

See post #2751 in this tread ...

""the degenerate lies of the hoax." Why 'degenerate'? We are accustomed to heroic lies, but to lie about one's craven cowardness and weakness, with Jewish sondercommandos cajoling their friends and relatives, even mothers and daughters, to stroll into the gas chambers, is really a unique phenomenon on the world stage."


A degenerate lies is the polar opposite of a heroic lie, and hence totally foreign to the goyim. All the lies of the holohoax are degenerate lies.

More mere assertion . . .

And "stroll," really? You mean like this? Are you under the impression that Wiernik was describing a "stroll" when he wrote this?

Suddenly, the entrance door flew open and out came Ivan, holding a heavy gas pipe, and Nicholas, brandishing a saber. At a given signal, they would begin admitting the victims, beating them savagely as they moved into the chamber. The screams of the women, the weeping of the children, cries of despair and misery, the pleas for mercy, for God's vengeance ring in my ears to this day, making it impossible for me to forget the misery I saw.

Between 450 and 500 persons were crowded into a chamber measuring 25 square meters. Parents carried their children in their arms in the vain hope that this would save their children from death. On the way to their doom, they were pushed and beaten with rifle butts and with Ivan's gas pipe. Dogs were set upon them, barking, biting and tearing at them. To escape the blows and the dogs, the crowd rushed to its death, pushing into the chamber, the stronger ones shoving the weaker ones ahead of them. The bedlam lasted only a short while, for soon the doors were slammed shut. The chamber was filled, the motor turned on and connected with the inflow pipes and, within 25 minutes at the most, all lay stretched out dead or, to be more accurate, were standing up dead. Since there was not an inch of free space, they just leaned against each other.

They no longer shouted, because the thread of their lives had been cut off. They had no more needs or desires. Even in death, mothers held their children tightly in their arms. There were no more friends or foes. There was no more jealousy. All were equal. There was no longer any beauty or ugliness, for they all were yellow from the gas. There were no longer any rich or poor, for they all were equal before God's throne. And why all this? I keep asking myself that question. My life is hard, very hard. But I must live on to tell the world about all this barbarism.

As soon as the gassing was over, Ivan and Nicholas inspected the results, moved over to the other side, opened the door leading to the platform, and proceeded to heave out the corpses. It was our task to carry the corpses to the ditches. We were dead tired from working all day at the construction site, but we had no recourse and had no choice but to obey. We could have refused, but that would have meant a whipping or death in the same manner or even worse; so we obeyed without grumbling.

We worked under the supervision of a Hauptmann [captain], a medium-sized, bespectacled man whose name I do not know. He whipped us and shouted at us. He beat me, too, without a stop. . . .

 

[LemmyCaution]

The reason I ask my question is that working thirty years in law enforcement taught me that the people who benefit from a person going missing are the people you want to talk to about that missing person. The people who ended up with the property and the jobs of these missing Jews should be questioned.

To answer your question: I don't have any information showing that returned and wanted their property back. I assume that the Jews who returned after they read that their jobs and property were available were crossed off the list of missing presumed dead Jews.

One destination of stolen Jewish wealth ties into the points made that Nessie and I have made in this thread about the Jewish deportations, which used the Vught and Westerbork camps as staging sites: the Reichskommissar Seyss-Inquart was able to make use of looted wealth for special projects; assets taken from Jews - 100s of millions of guilders - were placed in the Vermögensverwaltungs und Rentenanstalt (VVRA) - Seyss-Inquart funded Vught and Westerbork to the tune of 20 million guilders from the VVRA account built up by stolen Jewish wealth.

Which reminds me that Saggy hasn't even told us if he believes that over 100,000 Jews were deported from the Netherlands during the war.