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The Growth of the UFO Myth

By whom?
Please supply a source for the quote. Then read this, from my link above:

During the Belgian UFO saga many people observed strange triangular formations in the skies. Some captured them with video cameras. Mr. Alfarano, from Bruxelles, took the most famous one but it is generally unknown that he also claimed to be in telepathic contact with alien entities. Even the SOBEPS now admits that none of these films shows anything strange or inexplicable. Most of them depict ordinary aircraft lights in a triangular configuration.


If you had read the official Belgian Air Force report, you should have read its conclusion where it said there were "sufficient elements to exclude following assumptions:"
Belgian Air Force Report Concludes What the UFO was Not

a. Balloons. Impossible due to the highly variable speeds (confirmed visually and by radar).
b. ULM. Same as for balloons.

c. RPV. Impossible due to the hovering characteristics.

d. Aircraft (including Stealth). Same as for RPV. No noise.


Once again, three sources (airborne and ground-based radars and visual contacts) confirming the UFO


An Nevertheless, most of these people were convinced that they had seen the Belgian triangular UFO.


Let's take a look here and read from a report.

Belgian UFO Report

One of these bases was NATO controlled near the city of Glons, southeast of Brussels. After contacting other radar facilities, they learned that at least four other stations were also reporting the object on their screens. The object was moving across their screens slowly, and failed to send a transponder signal to identify itself.


Since multiple, dissimilar ground-based radars tracked the object the same time, we can rule out radar ghost angels.

Cont.

Two F-16s were ordered to intercept and identify this phenomena, and one of the jet's radars locked the object in. It appeared as a small diamond on the pilot's screen


The fact that both all-weather airborne radars of the F-16s tracked and locked the same object that was being tracked by ground-based radars was another clue the object was a flying craft and nothing to do with weather, as confirmed by the F-16 pilot on video.

From your link:

In these cases their testimonies could be checked by examination of the filmed images. What about all those cases in which witnesses claimed to have seen a UFO but weren’t fortunate enough to capture it on film? Is there any reason to accept that they saw something else than those who filmed ordinary aircrafts? In the absence of relevant data it is often very difficult or impossible to identify what people have seen. SOBEPS takes advantage of this ambiguous situation and concludes that all unexplained observations are related to real UFOs, probably from an extraterrestrial origin. This is unscientific.


Your link said "this is unscientific" after the Belgian Air Force and radar experts concluded that the object was real?!


One can also doubt about the personal qualifications of the numerous improvised investigators SOBEPS worked with. Some of them were so blinded by their beliefs in UFOs they couldn’t even see the most evident things. For example here is a drawing made by a witness and which was published in Inforespace 86 as a true UFO. The testimony and the drawing show evidently it was an ordinary helicopter.


Helicopters make a lot of noise. No noise was heard by the object. Read the reports. With thousands of witnesses, confirmed radar sightings, plane radar lock-ins, and military confirmations, the fact that an unknown craft moved across the country of Belgium cannot be denied.

Check it out.


Major P. Lambrechts explains at the inception that, "the observations both visual and by radar were of such nature, that it was decided to order the scramble of two F-16 aircraft with the goal of identifying these UFOs."

The report also indicates that "the presence or testing of B2 or F117 (Stealth Bomber), RPVs (Remotely Piloted Vehicles), ULMs (Ultra Light Motorized) and AWACS at the moment of these events in the Belgian airspace, can be excluded. "
Col. de Brouwer explained to Paris Match reporter Marie-Therese de Brosses, that the change of velocity from 280 KPM to 1,800 KPH while descending from 3,000 meters to 1,000 meters in one second, was a fantastic acceleration equivalent to 40 Gs.

Now, for a recap. A radar contact has been positively observed, in correlation with different sensors of the Air Force (CRC, TCC, RAPCON, EBBE and F-16 radar), and this in the same area as visual observations. This has to be explained by the fact that the March 30-31 UFOs have been noticed at +/- 10000 feet altitude, whereas in the former cases there was always talk of visual contacts at very low altitude.

The UFOs, as soon as seen by the F-16 radar in the "Target Track" mode (after interception), have drastically changed their parameters.

Those facts alone confirms an object was encountered over a long period of time and had nothing to do with weather nor radar malfunctions. This was a radar/visual confirmation incident and yet there are skeptic websites that will try to pin the UFO as radar malfunctions or on atmospheric phenomena despite the official reports.

Professor Emile Schweitzer, one of Belgium’s leading radar experts examined the aircraft data and concluded that these were real returns from real objects moving around the sky. One case recorded a craft doing a full speed sharp 90 degree angle turn upwards. If a craft moving in a normal Newtonian manner had tried doing such a thing, the acceleration (a turn a 30gs) would have instantly killed anybody inside the craft. Schweitzer concluded that he didn’t know how that could have been done with the then currently “known” level of technology. Schweitzer was asked to meet with MoD officials and a video interview was recorded with him.
 
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How have you established that each of your sources of claimed radar contacts was tracking one and the same object?
 
How have you established that each of your sources of claimed radar contacts was tracking one and the same object?


That was established by Belgian Air Force sources and by the lead F-16 pilot during his video interview where he confirmed the object that he and his wingman were tracking was also confirmed by ground-based radars.
 
Can you be more specific? Does that mean that ground based radars also tracked an object with no transponder response as you described before or did they track it performing manoeuvres far beyond the capability of any aircraft as the F-16 recording suggests?
 
Last weekend, a group of us watched the International Space Station pass overhead. If I was feeling sciencey, I might have polled everyone afterwards to see how different their recollections were of the direction, speed, apparent size, etc.
 
That was established by Belgian Air Force sources and by the lead F-16 pilot during his video interview where he confirmed the object that he and his wingman were tracking was also confirmed by ground-based radars.

How could the lead pilot know what object the ground based radar was tracking? And I also find it important to note if the ground radars can confirm the exact manoeuvres that the pilots observed.
 
If your aircraft is in immediate threat, there is no time to obtain permission to fire. Here's the video of the Iranian pilot who attempted to fire on one of those UFOs in addition to the documents.




Another close example is the Coyote Canyon UFO landing that knocked out multiple radars.

Isn't Kirtland where the Starfire Optical Range is? Wouldn't their use of lasers and such other focused light sources be a plausible explanation for sightings?
 
False! The Belgian Air Force was the original source of that data alone with the radar imagery that I also used to tied the data

Yet you are still unable or unwilling to link to the original source.
Do you or do you not have evidence that these figures came from the Belgian Air Force?



False! The radar data does not reflect radar ghost angels. Apparently, you've failed to read the report that multiple dissimilar ground-based radars not only confirmed the F-16's contacts, as confirmed by Lead, F-16 pilot, but the UFO in the sky was also confirmed by ground-based observers as well. In other words, multiple irborne and multiple and dissimilar ground-based radars, along with visual observations from the ground should have been clues to tell you that the UFO was not the result of radar ghost angels and another hint, the F-16's radar is an all-weather radar.

I expect skeptics to do their homework correctly instead of running to skeptics websites.

No, apparently you failed to read your own link, which states quite clearly that jets in the air were unable to make visual contact with the objects seen on radar.
Do you have a problem with skeptics websites? You might want to look at the top of your screen....
 
Can you be more specific? Does that mean that ground based radars also tracked an object with no transponder response as you described before or did they track it performing manoeuvres far beyond the capability of any aircraft as the F-16 recording suggests?


There was no transponder. A transponder is not required for radar to track an object. Airborne and ground-based radars are different, but ground-based radar can still be used to determine the airspeed of an object.

On the night of that incident, observers on the ground spotted the object, which was confirmed by ground-based radars. So here is where you have visual observations of the object confirmed by ground-based radar. So the call was made to scramble two F-16's, which were guided by ground-based radar to the general area whereas their own radar detected the object. Now, you have confirmation from airborne and multiple, dissimilar ground-based radars and visual observations from the ground, which rules out weather phenomena and radar malfunctions.

Each time the F-16's locked the object, the object would dash out of reach of the aircraft and break their radar locks. That indicates intelligence behind such maneuvers and the fact that mankind does not have an aircraft capable of conducting 40+ G maneuvers is why ET was brought into the mix.
 
Or that it wasn't an "object" at all. This is the downside of the "O" in UFO, that it presumes something seen by eyeballs is an "object."
 
How could the lead pilot know what object the ground based radar was tracking? And I also find it important to note if the ground radars can confirm the exact manoeuvres that the pilots observed.


Ground-based radar guided the F-16's to the general location until the F-16's own radars detected the object. As to how the F-16 pilots knew that ground-based radar was tracking the same object? Remember, ground-based radar guided the F-16's to the location of the object and it was confirmed by the lead F-16 pilot in his video interview that not only did ground-base radar track the same object as his aircraft, his wingman tracked the same object as well.
 
Or that it wasn't an "object" at all. This is the downside of the "O" in UFO, that it presumes something seen by eyeballs is an "object."


It was a solid object as tracked by airborne and ground based radar and that is also evident by multiple radar lock-ons.
 
Isn't Kirtland where the Starfire Optical Range is? Wouldn't their use of lasers and such other focused light sources be a plausible explanation for sightings?


Not in this case. There were military security personnel who witnessed the UFO as it landed at Coyote Canyon and eventually witnessed the object as it sped off. Lasers would not have been responsible for what they observed nor responsible for the radar shut downs that originated at the UFO landing site.

Here is a brief description of the incident.


A Sandia Security Guard was driving east on the Coyote Canyon access road on a routine building check of an alarmed structure. As he approached the structure, he observed a bright light near the ground behind the structure. He also observed an object that he at first thought was a helicopter. As he came closer, he observed that it was not a helicopter, but a round disk shaped object.
 
skyeagle409, I know that you are probably quoting from ufo sites, but if you are writing things that aren't your words, please either paste a link or attribute the quote in the quote box. Thanks!
 
skyeagle409, I know that you are probably quoting from ufo sites, but if you are writing things that aren't your words, please either paste a link or attribute the quote in the quote box. Thanks!

Oh yes. And Skyeagle409, if you have an across-the-board objection to skeptic sites, why are you wasting everyone's time at International Skeptics Forum?
 
Yet you are still unable or unwilling to link to the original source.
Do you or do you not have evidence that these figures came from the Belgian Air Force?


Yes, and in fact, the incident was presented on TV and even published in the Wall Street Journal. Let's also take a look here as General De Brouwer conducted his international press conference.

International Press Conference

http://www.ina.fr/var/ogpv3/storage...11517-quand-l-armee-belge-traque-les-ovni.jpg

http://www.latest-ufo-sightings.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Colonel-Wilfried-De-Brouwer.png

In the second picture, General De Brouwer is pointing to the radar screen which depicts the lock-on diamond. That is the UFO and the lock-on confirms the object is a solid craft as noted by the data information on the radar screen, which is the same information that I posted here in regard to the object's heading (300 degrees) and airspeed (990 knots).

22 300 990 0000

One second later, the object broke that radar lock of the F-16. You can also find links here.


Belgian UFO Information

http://www.ufoevidence.org/topics/belgium.htm

Documentation

http://www.dimensionzone.com/ufo/ufo_sightings_htm_files/271.jpg


No, apparently you failed to read your own link, which states quite clearly that jets in the air were unable to make visual contact with the objects seen on radar.

As a pilot, I know why they did not see the object. First of all, it was a night interception and you are concentrating on what is depicted on the radar screen and the HUD. Secondly, one of the most dangerous things you can do in an aircraft at night is to take your eyes out of the cockpit and look for a black object in the darkness of night that is not lit above. The danger of doing so runs the risk of vertigo, which is very dangerous at low altitudes at night, but in the daytime no problem. You can ask any carrier pilot what is the most dangerous thing they fear about landing on an aircraft and they will tell you that it is night landings.


Do you have a problem with skeptics websites? You might want to look at the top of your screen....


Yes, and if you want to determine the state of their credibility, look for their explanation as to what was responsible for the Roswell incident and if they say a classified Project Mogul balloon train #4 was responsible, just write them off because it will prove that they are not in the habit of doing their homework properly.
 
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There was no transponder. A transponder is not required for radar to track an object. Airborne and ground-based radars are different, but ground-based radar can still be used to determine the airspeed of an object.

So did the ground-based radars record the object accelerating suddenly to supersonic speeds?
 
This is quite amusing. Here is skyeagle409 getting his posterior handed to him on another forum, about the radar data
.http://www.unexplained-mysteries.co...e-best-evidence-for-aliens-on-earth/?page=166

Not sure if I'm allowed to quote it directly, but people who seem to know how to interpret the data are asking why the acceleration and distances do not match, and how the suposed UFos can be flying underground. Well worth a look.
 
...Well worth a look.

Yes, that was worth a look. It certainly hadn't occurred to me, but the table of radar data from the F-16 is anomalous not only because it describes movement which no plane can perform, it's anomalous because it's internally inconsistent with itself.

It describes a climb of 4000 feet in 3 seconds, by an object which is not (at that time) exceeding 570 knots. But to make that climb the vertical component of velocity alone is 790 knots.

The displayed numbers contradict each other and cannot be correct.
 
In the second picture, General De Brouwer is pointing to the radar screen which depicts the lock-on diamond. That is the UFO and the lock-on confirms the object is a solid craft as noted by the data information on the radar screen, which is the same information that I posted here in regard to the object's heading (300 degrees) and airspeed (990 knots).

I could be wrong as I don't know the details of the system in use, but invalid target acquisition is not unheard of. A lock increases the likelihood of the track being something real, but it doesn't ensure it. Indeed, the fact that they almost immediately lost the lock suggests otherwise.
 

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