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Cont: All things Trump + Russia Part 2

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The Great Zaganza said:
Trump's insistence that Russia wasn't behind the hack could mean that Trump actually knows exactly who is.
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Trump knows who was responsible and his name is Putin. I would pick the conclusions of our intelligence agencies over the lack of Trump's own intelligence.
 
skyeagle409 said:
Trump knows who was responsible and his name is Putin. I would pick the conclusions of our intelligence agencies over the lack of Trump's own intelligence.
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What I mean is that Trump was sufficiently in the loop to have been told about a false trail to hackers not directly associated with Russia.
This would definitely raise his involvement to the level of conspiracy.

We know that Trump can't keep secrets if he things that telling them will make him look good; I believe in this case he expects someone to find the false trail and "vindicate" him on Russia; he doesn't realize that US intelligence has mostly likely seen through all of these games.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
What I mean is that Trump was sufficiently in the loop to have been told about a false trail to hackers not directly associated with Russia.
This would definitely raise his involvement to the level of conspiracy.

We know that Trump can't keep secrets if he things that telling them will make him look good; I believe in this case he expects someone to find the false trail and "vindicate" him on Russia; he doesn't realize that US intelligence has mostly likely seen through all of these games.
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I don't think Trump is capable of that level of misdirection.

Look at his outrage late last year at how "Obama wiretapped" Trump Tower, and that his associates were intercepted talking to the Russians via standing wiretap orders for Russian diplomats. None of that was a red herring; we know now there really were clandestine meetings at Trump Tower, with the Trump team, and collusiony comms with Russia ready to be intercepted.

When Trump is confident about something other than his dick being sucked, he's lying. It's that simple.

[ETA] he could easily have made a red herring about it by expanding the accusation to "all Trump properties," or some such. But he didn't. It remained as weirdly specific as his continuing defense of Michael Flynn.
 
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The VIPS strike again: Intel Vets Challenge ‘Russia Hack’ Evidence

This is their 50th memo, the first one to Teh Donald. The first memo they wrote was "a same-day commentary for President George W. Bush on Colin Powell’s U.N. speech on March 5, 2003 [which] warned that the “unintended consequences were likely to be catastrophic,” should the U.S. attack Iraq and “justfy” the war on intelligence that we retired intelligence officers could readily see as fraudulent and driven by a war agenda."

They have examined the forensic analysis of the Guccifer 2.0 stuff published recently by "forensicator" (as linked by me and pantomime debunked by specials here) and combined that with existing evidence. Interesting conclusions.
 
Anthony Scaramucci is a perfect fit. This is the mindlessness. First-
"He basically said to me, 'Hey you know, this is, maybe they did it, maybe they didn't do it,'" Scaramucci said of a recent conversation he'd had with the President about alleged Russian interference.
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Then
"The mainstream media position on this, that they interfered in the election," Scaramucci said. "It actually in his mind, what are you guys suggesting? You're going to delegitimize his victory?" Link
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Is the mainstream media taking a position or reporting news? Do either Donnie or Scary understand freedom of the press, the importance of an independent media, why it is vital in a democracy? In other words, Donnie and Scary think the Russian developments shouldn't be reported because it might "delegitimize his victory?" Even though Donnie himself concedes, "Maybe they did it."
 
newyorkguy said:
Anthony Scaramucci is a perfect fit. This is the mindlessness. First-


Then



Is the mainstream media taking a position or reporting news? Do either Donnie or Scary understand freedom of the press, the importance of an independent media, why it is vital in a democracy? In other words, Donnie and Scary think the Russian developments shouldn't be reported because it might "delegitimize his victory?" Even though Donnie himself concedes, "Maybe they did it."
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He's right tho. The fact that the Russians meddled in the election absolutely delegitimizes his victory.
 
On Sunday, Mr. Trump’s new communications director, Anthony Scaramucci, repeated the White House position that Mr. Trump remains unconvinced by the evidence Russia was the culprit behind the election hacking. He said that when the subject comes up, Mr. Trump cannot separate the intelligence findings from his emotional sense that the issue is being used to cast doubt on his legitimacy as president.

“It actually in his mind, what are you guys suggesting?” Mr. Scaramucci said on CNN’s “State of the Union.” “You’re going to delegitimize his victory?”

If so, Mr. Trump is the only one with access to the best intelligence on the issue who still harbors those doubts.

Last week at the Aspen Security Forum, four of his top intelligence and national security officials — including Mike Pompeo, the C.I.A. director — said they were absolutely convinced that the Russians were behind the effort to influence the election.

“There is no dissent,” Dan Coats, the director of national intelligence, said on Friday at the Aspen conference. The Russians, he said, “caught us just a little bit asleep in terms of capabilities” the Kremlin could bring to bear to influence elections here, in France and Germany. The Russians’ goal was clear, he said: “They are trying to undermine Western democracy.”

...

But when Mr. Trump met Mr. Putin in Hamburg, Germany, two weeks ago, he did not utter similar suspicions, at least in public. In fact, he emerged to tell his aides that the Russian president had offered a compelling rejoinder: Moscow’s cyberoperators are so good at covert computer-network operations that if they had dipped into the Democratic National Committee’s systems, they would not have been caught.

And on Sunday, Mr. Trump made it clear again that regardless of statements by Mr. Pompeo and Mr. Coats, the entire issue is a political concoction.
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https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/23/world/europe/trump-putin-sanctions-hacking.html

Russian President Vladimir Putin told President Trump that Russian hackers wouldn't have gotten caught if they did hack Democratic groups because they're too skilled at spying, The New York Times reported Monday.

Trump has since repeated the claim, according to White House communications director Anthony Scaramucci.

Scaramucci told CNN's "State of the Union" on Sunday that someone told him that if Moscow hacked the Democratic National Committee, "you would have never seen it. You would have never had any evidence of them, meaning that they’re super-confident in their deception skills and hacking."

Pressed by host Jake Tapper on who told him that, Scaramucci said it was Trump himself.
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http://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...t-russian-hackers-were-too-good-to-get-caught

So Trump takes Putin's words at face value while discarding the opinion of his intelligence and fact gathering agencies?
 
Arcade22 said:
So Trump takes Putin's words at face value while discarding the opinion of his intelligence and fact gathering agencies?
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Considering how much Trump lies, it's pretty surprising that he takes spymaster Putin at his word... unless, of course, Trump isn't even aware that what he says isn't true. That would indicate that he's quite insane.
 
newyorkguy said:
Anthony Scaramucci is a perfect fit. This is the mindlessness. First-


Then



Is the mainstream media taking a position or reporting news? Do either Donnie or Scary understand freedom of the press, the importance of an independent media, why it is vital in a democracy? In other words, Donnie and Scary think the Russian developments shouldn't be reported because it might "delegitimize his victory?" Even though Donnie himself concedes, "Maybe they did it."
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Its fascinating that you even have to ask the question "is the MSM taking a position"

Then you'll lecture us on the importance of a free press and how it's vital to democracy. Then trying to project the narrative that the Russian collusion might make his election illegitimate. Its classic playbook dishonesty!
 
Arcade22 said:
So Trump takes Putin's words at face value while discarding the opinion of his intelligence and fact gathering agencies?
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I wouldn't trust any of them, I suspect he probably feels the same way. Of course your side uses it to scire political points.
 
Lavrov in an interview with Rudaw published today (no, genius, that's despite the Ru not a Russian outlet). The world is lucky that Russia is led by people mature enough to not overreact to these ... antics.

Sergey Lavrov said:
[...] What is happening now between us and America is certainly not good. We are left with many issues from the Obama administration. Those decisions that were made then are now before us like a fire. The Obama administration was in a shock on its way out due to the election results. They wanted to use the time they had left in the White House to do bad things and above all their goal was to deteriorate relations between America and Russia.

We understand how difficult it is when someone in Washington wants to think logically to get out of the disease they have contracted from their Russophobia. So many months have passed since the new administration and no one examined this issue, to show at least one proof that Russia had meddled in America’s domestic affairs. Ordinary people is something else, but I never believed that American politicians would get the complex they now have against Russia. When I was working in New York I talked to many of them and I had understood them differently, so what I see now from the Americans is astonishing to me. I believe most of those who act this way towards Russia are acting unnaturally. American politicians themselves know what they do is not good and that somehow they must end this kind of thinking and behavior towards Russia.

Unfortunately they put themselves inside a fort which is difficult to get out of later on. Anyway, I must say that that air comes from some people whom no one can help. They themselves must try to get out of it otherwise they will be exhausted from that ailment. Once again I say it that they have not been able to prove that Russia meddled in American internal affairs and there isn’t a single reason for it. What is there in American newspapers and on TV stations is insulting. It is like our expression, excuse me if it is inappropriate, but we call that “finger sucking”. [...]
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I am expecting more negative information as investigations continue.

Kushner contradicts Trump team's denials of Russia contacts

Washington (CNN)For nearly a year, President Donald Trump and several of his top advisers have repeatedly denied that there was any contact between members of the Trump campaign and individuals tied to the Russian government. But the veracity of that story appears to be crumbling under contradictory revelations from the President's son, son-in-law and the current attorney general.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/24/politics/kushner-russia-statement-trump-denials/index.html
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