The Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito: Part 25

[LondonJohn]

Well, of course he was to you; he supports your bias.

Tell me, do you not find it in the least rather improbable that this same homeless heroin addict would be a prosecution witness in three murder trials, much less within such a short time period (2004-2007)? That doesn't make your "bull crap" antennae twitch at all?

Not to mention the fact that this homeless heroin addict a) had demonstrably significant mental health issues (viz. his messianic tendencies in his Hellmann court testimony, among other evidence...), and b) was a person against whom the police had gathered incontrovertible evidence of heroin dealing (using wired-up "customers") back in 2003.

The police (and PM) therefore had sufficient evidence to virtually guarantee a conviction and a multi-year prison sentence against Curatolo as early as 2003. Yet no arrest was ever made; no charges were ever brought; no trial was ever held. That is, none of that happened until long after Knox and Sollecito were acquitted by Massei's court.

It doesn't take any degree of conspiracy theorising to suggest that the police and a PM had brought Curatolo in for a "quiet chat" some time soon after they'd gathered the evidence of his heroin dealing in 2003, and proposed a quid pro quo: Curatolo would be "helpful" to the police, in terms of keeping tabs on the drug scene in/around Piazza Grimana, and being a "witness" to any crimes that might take place in/around that area - and in return, the police/PM would "forget" to prosecute him for drug dealing (something, incidentally, which is expressly forbidden: if the police/PM in Italy have evidence of a crime, they are legally obliged to act upon it and present it to a judge).

Likewise, it's hard to think of any other sensible, feasible reason how/why the police would have gathered incontrovertible evidence of Curatolo being a Class A drug dealer, and not having acted upon that evidence for several years. Perhaps a pro-guilt commentator can supply us with a feasible reason why Curatolo wasn't prosecuted, charged, convicted and imprisoned long before 1st November 2007.......?

 

[Bill Williams]

Likewise, it's hard to think of any other sensible, feasible reason how/why the police would have gathered incontrovertible evidence of Curatolo being a Class A drug dealer, and not having acted upon that evidence for several years. Perhaps a pro-guilt commentator can supply us with a feasible reason why Curatolo wasn't prosecuted, charged, convicted and imprisoned long before 1st November 2007.......?

In N.A. we wonder why the defences did not make a bigger deal of this, or mention it in appeal documents.

In Italy that is tantamount to accusing a prosecutor of abuse of office. Since Mignini was already under charges of abuse of office during the first trial, himself awaiting his own set of trials, it makes it doubly troubling that the defence did not make more use of this.

Curatolo was a "rent-a-witness", and got favours in return. Lumumba got leaned on to continue with his own calunnia charges, to make up monetarily for the cops keeping his bar closed even after he'd been cleared.

In any event, this type of thing was what was always wrong with "all the other evidence", once the DNA evidence fell apart in the summer of 2011.

As one poster to these ISF/JREF threads once observed - and I believe it true - there was not one bit of evidence against the pair that was not at its base judicially generated.

Look at the "elegant proof" that Knox had sloughed blood from her hands. The proof of that resides with Massei in 2010 - who wrote that there was no forensic way to prove that she'd done that; his thesis was that the claim she'd done it fit in so well with all the other evidenceless claims.

As long as guilt-sounding claims could be made, and as long as Curatolo, Nara and Quintavalle could be persuaded to remember things a year after the fact...... then this case was judicially provable.

Otherwise, acc. to M/B in 2015, the stuff presented to support guilt, combined with the stuff pointing away from guilt - when combined - should have led a competent court to acquit.

Which M/B did on behalf of the Nencini court.

 

[Welshman]

In N.A. we wonder why the defences did not make a bigger deal of this, or mention it in appeal documents.

In Italy that is tantamount to accusing a prosecutor of abuse of office. Since Mignini was already under charges of abuse of office during the first trial, himself awaiting his own set of trials, it makes it doubly troubling that the defence did not make more use of this.

Curatolo was a "rent-a-witness", and got favours in return. Lumumba got leaned on to continue with his own calunnia charges, to make up monetarily for the cops keeping his bar closed even after he'd been cleared.

In any event, this type of thing was what was always wrong with "all the other evidence", once the DNA evidence fell apart in the summer of 2011.

As one poster to these ISF/JREF threads once observed - and I believe it true - there was not one bit of evidence against the pair that was not at its base judicially generated.

Look at the "elegant proof" that Knox had sloughed blood from her hands. The proof of that resides with Massei in 2010 - who wrote that there was no forensic way to prove that she'd done that; his thesis was that the claim she'd done it fit in so well with all the other evidenceless claims.

As long as guilt-sounding claims could be made, and as long as Curatolo, Nara and Quintavalle could be persuaded to remember things a year after the fact...... then this case was judicially provable.

Otherwise, acc. to M/B in 2015, the stuff presented to support guilt, combined with the stuff pointing away from guilt - when combined - should have led a competent court to acquit.

Which M/B did on behalf of the Nencini court.

If Curalto was a serial witness for the police, this raises the possibility the police instructed Curalto to provide testimony against Amanda and Raffaele. PGP constantly boast about all the evidence against Amanda and Raffaele. If this was true, why did the police have to resort to getting a witness to lie for them.

 

[Stacyhs]

Not to mention the fact that this homeless heroin addict a) had demonstrably significant mental health issues (viz. his messianic tendencies in his Hellmann court testimony, among other evidence...), and b) was a person against whom the police had gathered incontrovertible evidence of heroin dealing (using wired-up "customers") back in 2003.

The police (and PM) therefore had sufficient evidence to virtually guarantee a conviction and a multi-year prison sentence against Curatolo as early as 2003. Yet no arrest was ever made; no charges were ever brought; no trial was ever held. That is, none of that happened until long after Knox and Sollecito were acquitted by Massei's court.
It doesn't take any degree of conspiracy theorising to suggest that the police and a PM had brought Curatolo in for a "quiet chat" some time soon after they'd gathered the evidence of his heroin dealing in 2003, and proposed a quid pro quo: Curatolo would be "helpful" to the police, in terms of keeping tabs on the drug scene in/around Piazza Grimana, and being a "witness" to any crimes that might take place in/around that area - and in return, the police/PM would "forget" to prosecute him for drug dealing (something, incidentally, which is expressly forbidden: if the police/PM in Italy have evidence of a crime, they are legally obliged to act upon it and present it to a judge).

Likewise, it's hard to think of any other sensible, feasible reason how/why the police would have gathered incontrovertible evidence of Curatolo being a Class A drug dealer, and not having acted upon that evidence for several years. Perhaps a pro-guilt commentator can supply us with a feasible reason why Curatolo wasn't prosecuted, charged, convicted and imprisoned long before 1st November 2007.......?

LJ, typo alert: "convicted" not "acquitted".

Earlier I wrote that Massei was prosecution-biased. Another example of this was his refusal of the defense's request to have Nara's apartment tested to see if it was even possible for her to have heard what she claimed she did. When British Channel 5 had an Italian audio expert come in, he determined it would have been extremely unlikely that she could have heard what she said she did.
Of course, I'm sure he was just another paid shill.

 

[Stacyhs]

Today is Amanda's birthday.

(Cue for PGP astrologist whack jobs to mention it's also OJ Simpson's birthday.)

 

[Bill Williams]

Today is Amanda's birthday.

(Cue for PGP astrologist whack jobs to mention it's also OJ Simpson's birthday, too.)

Based on the list below - birthdays for Jul 9 - the astrologers among us should be predicting she's a footballer....

1938 – Brian Dennehy, American actor
1940 – David B. Frohnmayer, American lawyer and politician, 12th Oregon Attorney General (d. 2015)
1940 – Eugene Victor Wolfenstein, American psychoanalyst and theorist (d. 2010)
1941 – Mac MacLeod, English musician
1942 – David Chidgey, Baron Chidgey, English engineer and politician
1942 – Richard Roundtree, American actor
1943 – John Casper, American colonel, pilot, and astronaut
1944 – Judith M. Brown, Indian-English historian and academic
1944 – John Cunniff, American ice hockey player and coach (d. 2002)
1945 – Dean Koontz, American author and screenwriter
1945 – Root Boy Slim, American singer-songwriter and guitarist (d. 1993)
1946 – Bon Scott, Scottish-Australian singer-songwriter (d. 1980)
1947 – Haruomi Hosono, Japanese singer-songwriter, bass player, and producer
1947 – Mitch Mitchell, English drummer (d. 2008)
1947 – O. J. Simpson, American football player and actor
1947 – Patrick Wormald, English historian (d. 2004)
1948 – Hassan Wirajuda, Indonesian lawyer and politician, 15th Indonesian Minister of Foreign Affairs
1950 – Amal ibn Idris al-Alami, Moroccan physician and neurosurgeon
1950 – Gwen Guthrie, American singer-songwriter and pianist (d. 1999)
1950 – Adriano Panatta, Italian tennis player and sailor
1950 – Viktor Yanukovych, Ukrainian engineer and politician, 4th President of Ukraine
1951 – Chris Cooper, American actor
1951 – Māris Gailis, Latvian politician, businessman, and former Prime Minister of Latvia
1952 – John Tesh, American pianist, composer, and radio and television host
1953 – Margie Gillis, Canadian dancer and choreographer
1953 – Thomas Ligotti, American author
1954 – Théophile Abega, Cameroonian footballer and politician (d. 2012)
1954 – Kevin O'Leary, Canadian journalist and businessman
1955 – Steve Coppell, English footballer and manager
1955 – Lindsey Graham, American colonel, lawyer, and politician
1955 – Jimmy Smits, American actor and producer
1955 – Willie Wilson, American baseball player and manager
1956 – Tom Hanks, American actor, director, producer, and screenwriter
1956 – Michael Lederer, American author, poet, and playwright
1957 – Marc Almond, English singer-songwriter
1957 – Tim Kring, American screenwriter and producer
1957 – Kelly McGillis, American actress
1957 – Paul Merton, English comedian, actor, and screenwriter
1957 – Jim Paxson, American basketball player and manager
1959 – Jim Kerr, Scottish singer-songwriter and keyboard player
1959 – Kevin Nash, American wrestler
1959 – Clive Stafford Smith, English lawyer and author
1960 – Yūko Asano, Japanese actress and singer
1960 – Wally Fullerton Smith, Australian rugby player
1960 – Eduardo Montes-Bradley, Argentinian journalist, photographer, and author
1963 – Klaus Theiss, German footballer1964 – Courtney Love, American singer-songwriter, guitarist, and actress
1964 – Gianluca Vialli, Italian footballer and coach
1965 – Frank Bello, American bass player
1965 – Thomas Jahn, German director and screenwriter
1965 – Jason Rhoades, American sculptor (d. 2006)
1966 – Pamela Adlon, American actress and voice artist
1966 – Zheng Cao, Chinese-American soprano and actress (d. 2013)
1966 – Marco Pennette, American screenwriter and producer
1967 – Gunnar Axén, Swedish politician
1967 – Mark Stoops, American football player and coach
1968 – Paolo Di Canio, Italian footballer and manager
1968 – Lars Gyllenhaal, Swedish historian and author
1969 – Nicklas Barker, Swedish singer-songwriter and guitarist
1969 – Jason Kearton, Australian footballer and coach
1969 – Mark Lui, Hong Kong singer-songwriter and producer
1970 – Trent Green, American football player and sportscaster
1970 – Masami Tsuda, Japanese author and illustrator
1971 – Marc Andreessen, American software developer, co-founded Netscape
1971 – Scott Grimes, American singer-songwriter and actor
1972 – Ara Babajian, American drummer and songwriter
1973 – Kelly Holcomb, American football player and sportscaster
1973 – Enrique Murciano, American actor
1974 – Siân Berry, English environmentalist and politician
1974 – Gary Kelly, Irish footballer1974 – Nikola Šarčević, Swedish singer-songwriter and bass player
1974 – Tsuyoshi Kusanagi, Japanese actor, singer, television host, and a member of SMAP
1975 – Shelton Benjamin, American wrestler
1975 – Isaac Brock, American singer-songwriter and guitarist
1975 – Robert Koenig, American director, producer, and screenwriter
1975 – Craig Quinnell, Welsh rugby player
1975 – Jack White, American singer-songwriter, guitarist, and producer
1976 – Thomas Cichon, Polish-German footballer and manager
1976 – Fred Savage, American actor, director, and producer
1976 – Radike Samo, Fijian-Australian rugby player
1976 – Jochem Uytdehaage, Dutch speed skater
1977 – Jun Hori, Japanese journalist and host
1978 – Kara Goucher, American runner
1978 – Nuno Santos, Portuguese footballer1981 – Lee Chun-soo, South Korean footballer1981 – Emily West, American singer-songwriter and guitarist
1982 – Alecko Eskandarian, American soccer player and manager
1982 – Sakon Yamamoto, Japanese race car driver
1983 – Lucia Micarelli, American violinist and actress
1984 – Chris Campoli, Canadian ice hockey player
1984 – Gianni Fabiano, Italian footballer1984 – Jacob Hoggard, Canadian singer-songwriter and guitarist
1984 – Ave Pajo, Estonian footballer1984 – Piia Suomalainen, Finnish tennis player
1984 – LA Tenorio, Filipino basketball player
1985 – Lee Hee-ah, South Korean pianist
1985 – Paweł Korzeniowski, Polish swimmer
1985 – Ashley Young, English footballer1986 – Sébastien Bassong, Cameroonian footballer1986 – Dominic Cervi, American soccer player1986 – Simon Dumont, American skier
1986 – Severo Meza, Mexican footballer1986 – Katie Stam, Miss America 2009
1986 – Kiely Williams, American singer-songwriter and dancer
1987 – Gert Jõeäär, Estonian cyclist
1987 – Rebecca Sugar, American animator, composer, and screenwriter
1988 – Raul Rusescu, Romanian footballer1990 – Aimer, Japanese singer
1990 – Earl Bamber, New Zealand race car driver
1990 – Fábio Pereira da Silva, Brazilian footballer1990 – Rafael, Brazilian footballer

 

[acbytesla]

Based on the list below - birthdays for Jul 9 - the astrologers among us should be predicting she's a footballer....

1938 – Brian Dennehy, American actor
1940 – David B. Frohnmayer, American lawyer and politician, 12th Oregon Attorney General (d. 2015)
1940 – Eugene Victor Wolfenstein, American psychoanalyst and theorist (d. 2010)
1941 – Mac MacLeod, English musician
1942 – David Chidgey, Baron Chidgey, English engineer and politician
1942 – Richard Roundtree, American actor
1943 – John Casper, American colonel, pilot, and astronaut
1944 – Judith M. Brown, Indian-English historian and academic
1944 – John Cunniff, American ice hockey player and coach (d. 2002)
1945 – Dean Koontz, American author and screenwriter
1945 – Root Boy Slim, American singer-songwriter and guitarist (d. 1993)
1946 – Bon Scott, Scottish-Australian singer-songwriter (d. 1980)
1947 – Haruomi Hosono, Japanese singer-songwriter, bass player, and producer
1947 – Mitch Mitchell, English drummer (d. 2008)
1947 – O. J. Simpson, American football player and actor
1947 – Patrick Wormald, English historian (d. 2004)
1948 – Hassan Wirajuda, Indonesian lawyer and politician, 15th Indonesian Minister of Foreign Affairs
1950 – Amal ibn Idris al-Alami, Moroccan physician and neurosurgeon
1950 – Gwen Guthrie, American singer-songwriter and pianist (d. 1999)
1950 – Adriano Panatta, Italian tennis player and sailor
1950 – Viktor Yanukovych, Ukrainian engineer and politician, 4th President of Ukraine
1951 – Chris Cooper, American actor
1951 – Māris Gailis, Latvian politician, businessman, and former Prime Minister of Latvia
1952 – John Tesh, American pianist, composer, and radio and television host
1953 – Margie Gillis, Canadian dancer and choreographer
1953 – Thomas Ligotti, American author
1954 – Théophile Abega, Cameroonian footballer and politician (d. 2012)
1954 – Kevin O'Leary, Canadian journalist and businessman
1955 – Steve Coppell, English footballer and manager
1955 – Lindsey Graham, American colonel, lawyer, and politician
1955 – Jimmy Smits, American actor and producer
1955 – Willie Wilson, American baseball player and manager
1956 – Tom Hanks, American actor, director, producer, and screenwriter
1956 – Michael Lederer, American author, poet, and playwright
1957 – Marc Almond, English singer-songwriter
1957 – Tim Kring, American screenwriter and producer
1957 – Kelly McGillis, American actress
1957 – Paul Merton, English comedian, actor, and screenwriter
1957 – Jim Paxson, American basketball player and manager
1959 – Jim Kerr, Scottish singer-songwriter and keyboard player
1959 – Kevin Nash, American wrestler
1959 – Clive Stafford Smith, English lawyer and author
1960 – Yūko Asano, Japanese actress and singer
1960 – Wally Fullerton Smith, Australian rugby player
1960 – Eduardo Montes-Bradley, Argentinian journalist, photographer, and author
1963 – Klaus Theiss, German footballer1964 – Courtney Love, American singer-songwriter, guitarist, and actress
1964 – Gianluca Vialli, Italian footballer and coach
1965 – Frank Bello, American bass player
1965 – Thomas Jahn, German director and screenwriter
1965 – Jason Rhoades, American sculptor (d. 2006)
1966 – Pamela Adlon, American actress and voice artist
1966 – Zheng Cao, Chinese-American soprano and actress (d. 2013)
1966 – Marco Pennette, American screenwriter and producer
1967 – Gunnar Axén, Swedish politician
1967 – Mark Stoops, American football player and coach
1968 – Paolo Di Canio, Italian footballer and manager
1968 – Lars Gyllenhaal, Swedish historian and author
1969 – Nicklas Barker, Swedish singer-songwriter and guitarist
1969 – Jason Kearton, Australian footballer and coach
1969 – Mark Lui, Hong Kong singer-songwriter and producer
1970 – Trent Green, American football player and sportscaster
1970 – Masami Tsuda, Japanese author and illustrator
1971 – Marc Andreessen, American software developer, co-founded Netscape
1971 – Scott Grimes, American singer-songwriter and actor
1972 – Ara Babajian, American drummer and songwriter
1973 – Kelly Holcomb, American football player and sportscaster
1973 – Enrique Murciano, American actor
1974 – Siân Berry, English environmentalist and politician
1974 – Gary Kelly, Irish footballer1974 – Nikola Šarčević, Swedish singer-songwriter and bass player
1974 – Tsuyoshi Kusanagi, Japanese actor, singer, television host, and a member of SMAP
1975 – Shelton Benjamin, American wrestler
1975 – Isaac Brock, American singer-songwriter and guitarist
1975 – Robert Koenig, American director, producer, and screenwriter
1975 – Craig Quinnell, Welsh rugby player
1975 – Jack White, American singer-songwriter, guitarist, and producer
1976 – Thomas Cichon, Polish-German footballer and manager
1976 – Fred Savage, American actor, director, and producer
1976 – Radike Samo, Fijian-Australian rugby player
1976 – Jochem Uytdehaage, Dutch speed skater
1977 – Jun Hori, Japanese journalist and host
1978 – Kara Goucher, American runner
1978 – Nuno Santos, Portuguese footballer1981 – Lee Chun-soo, South Korean footballer1981 – Emily West, American singer-songwriter and guitarist
1982 – Alecko Eskandarian, American soccer player and manager
1982 – Sakon Yamamoto, Japanese race car driver
1983 – Lucia Micarelli, American violinist and actress
1984 – Chris Campoli, Canadian ice hockey player
1984 – Gianni Fabiano, Italian footballer1984 – Jacob Hoggard, Canadian singer-songwriter and guitarist
1984 – Ave Pajo, Estonian footballer1984 – Piia Suomalainen, Finnish tennis player
1984 – LA Tenorio, Filipino basketball player
1985 – Lee Hee-ah, South Korean pianist
1985 – Paweł Korzeniowski, Polish swimmer
1985 – Ashley Young, English footballer1986 – Sébastien Bassong, Cameroonian footballer1986 – Dominic Cervi, American soccer player1986 – Simon Dumont, American skier
1986 – Severo Meza, Mexican footballer1986 – Katie Stam, Miss America 2009
1986 – Kiely Williams, American singer-songwriter and dancer
1987 – Gert Jõeäär, Estonian cyclist
1987 – Rebecca Sugar, American animator, composer, and screenwriter
1988 – Raul Rusescu, Romanian footballer1990 – Aimer, Japanese singer
1990 – Earl Bamber, New Zealand race car driver
1990 – Fábio Pereira da Silva, Brazilian footballer1990 – Rafael, Brazilian footballer

At least some kind of football player. I notice there was 2 other American Football players who like OJ also were/are broadcasters. Also a Rugby footballer.

But what I like the most is Fred Savage who played Kevin on the Wonder Years and Kelly McGillis from Top Gun and Witness also share that birthday.

 

[Planigale]

In N.A. we wonder why the defences did not make a bigger deal of this, or mention it in appeal documents.

In Italy that is tantamount to accusing a prosecutor of abuse of office. Since Mignini was already under charges of abuse of office during the first trial, himself awaiting his own set of trials, it makes it doubly troubling that the defence did not make more use of this.

Curatolo was a "rent-a-witness", and got favours in return. Lumumba got leaned on to continue with his own calunnia charges, to make up monetarily for the cops keeping his bar closed even after he'd been cleared.

In any event, this type of thing was what was always wrong with "all the other evidence", once the DNA evidence fell apart in the summer of 2011.

As one poster to these ISF/JREF threads once observed - and I believe it true - there was not one bit of evidence against the pair that was not at its base judicially generated.

Look at the "elegant proof" that Knox had sloughed blood from her hands. The proof of that resides with Massei in 2010 - who wrote that there was no forensic way to prove that she'd done that; his thesis was that the claim she'd done it fit in so well with all the other evidenceless claims.

As long as guilt-sounding claims could be made, and as long as Curatolo, Nara and Quintavalle could be persuaded to remember things a year after the fact...... then this case was judicially provable.

Otherwise, acc. to M/B in 2015, the stuff presented to support guilt, combined with the stuff pointing away from guilt - when combined - should have led a competent court to acquit.

Which M/B did on behalf of the Nencini court.

But this is Italy and court rules differ. In UK and I suspect the US the witness would have been led through his witness statement made contemporaneously, any eye witness identification would have been as the result of some sort of line up in person or photographically, this is not the case in Italy. Questioning the veracity of the witness in Italy is impugning their honour and suggesting they are committing perjury, in the UK judges are required to warn juries about the unreliability of eye witness identification.

The defence had little lee way to question the statements and I suspect pushed as hard as they could viz. the response to questioning the ear witness statement when they were refused independent scientific acoustic testimony because it would imply the witness lied.

 

[Planigale]

Based on the list below - birthdays for Jul 9 - the astrologers among us should be predicting she's a footballer....

1938 – Brian Dennehy, American actor
1940 – David B. Frohnmayer, American lawyer and politician, 12th Oregon Attorney General (d. 2015)
1940 – Eugene Victor Wolfenstein, American psychoanalyst and theorist (d. 2010)
1941 – Mac MacLeod, English musician
1942 – David Chidgey, Baron Chidgey, English engineer and politician
1942 – Richard Roundtree, American actor
1943 – John Casper, American colonel, pilot, and astronaut
1944 – Judith M. Brown, Indian-English historian and academic
1944 – John Cunniff, American ice hockey player and coach (d. 2002)
1945 – Dean Koontz, American author and screenwriter
1945 – Root Boy Slim, American singer-songwriter and guitarist (d. 1993)
1946 – Bon Scott, Scottish-Australian singer-songwriter (d. 1980)
1947 – Haruomi Hosono, Japanese singer-songwriter, bass player, and producer
1947 – Mitch Mitchell, English drummer (d. 2008)
1947 – O. J. Simpson, American football player and actor
1947 – Patrick Wormald, English historian (d. 2004)
1948 – Hassan Wirajuda, Indonesian lawyer and politician, 15th Indonesian Minister of Foreign Affairs
1950 – Amal ibn Idris al-Alami, Moroccan physician and neurosurgeon
1950 – Gwen Guthrie, American singer-songwriter and pianist (d. 1999)
1950 – Adriano Panatta, Italian tennis player and sailor
1950 – Viktor Yanukovych, Ukrainian engineer and politician, 4th President of Ukraine
1951 – Chris Cooper, American actor
1951 – Māris Gailis, Latvian politician, businessman, and former Prime Minister of Latvia
1952 – John Tesh, American pianist, composer, and radio and television host
1953 – Margie Gillis, Canadian dancer and choreographer
1953 – Thomas Ligotti, American author
1954 – Théophile Abega, Cameroonian footballer and politician (d. 2012)
1954 – Kevin O'Leary, Canadian journalist and businessman
1955 – Steve Coppell, English footballer and manager
1955 – Lindsey Graham, American colonel, lawyer, and politician
1955 – Jimmy Smits, American actor and producer
1955 – Willie Wilson, American baseball player and manager
1956 – Tom Hanks, American actor, director, producer, and screenwriter
1956 – Michael Lederer, American author, poet, and playwright
1957 – Marc Almond, English singer-songwriter
1957 – Tim Kring, American screenwriter and producer
1957 – Kelly McGillis, American actress
1957 – Paul Merton, English comedian, actor, and screenwriter
1957 – Jim Paxson, American basketball player and manager
1959 – Jim Kerr, Scottish singer-songwriter and keyboard player
1959 – Kevin Nash, American wrestler
1959 – Clive Stafford Smith, English lawyer and author
1960 – Yūko Asano, Japanese actress and singer
1960 – Wally Fullerton Smith, Australian rugby player
1960 – Eduardo Montes-Bradley, Argentinian journalist, photographer, and author
1963 – Klaus Theiss, German footballer1964 – Courtney Love, American singer-songwriter, guitarist, and actress
1964 – Gianluca Vialli, Italian footballer and coach
1965 – Frank Bello, American bass player
1965 – Thomas Jahn, German director and screenwriter
1965 – Jason Rhoades, American sculptor (d. 2006)
1966 – Pamela Adlon, American actress and voice artist
1966 – Zheng Cao, Chinese-American soprano and actress (d. 2013)
1966 – Marco Pennette, American screenwriter and producer
1967 – Gunnar Axén, Swedish politician
1967 – Mark Stoops, American football player and coach
1968 – Paolo Di Canio, Italian footballer and manager
1968 – Lars Gyllenhaal, Swedish historian and author
1969 – Nicklas Barker, Swedish singer-songwriter and guitarist
1969 – Jason Kearton, Australian footballer and coach
1969 – Mark Lui, Hong Kong singer-songwriter and producer
1970 – Trent Green, American football player and sportscaster
1970 – Masami Tsuda, Japanese author and illustrator
1971 – Marc Andreessen, American software developer, co-founded Netscape
1971 – Scott Grimes, American singer-songwriter and actor
1972 – Ara Babajian, American drummer and songwriter
1973 – Kelly Holcomb, American football player and sportscaster
1973 – Enrique Murciano, American actor
1974 – Siân Berry, English environmentalist and politician
1974 – Gary Kelly, Irish footballer1974 – Nikola Šarčević, Swedish singer-songwriter and bass player
1974 – Tsuyoshi Kusanagi, Japanese actor, singer, television host, and a member of SMAP
1975 – Shelton Benjamin, American wrestler
1975 – Isaac Brock, American singer-songwriter and guitarist
1975 – Robert Koenig, American director, producer, and screenwriter
1975 – Craig Quinnell, Welsh rugby player
1975 – Jack White, American singer-songwriter, guitarist, and producer
1976 – Thomas Cichon, Polish-German footballer and manager
1976 – Fred Savage, American actor, director, and producer
1976 – Radike Samo, Fijian-Australian rugby player
1976 – Jochem Uytdehaage, Dutch speed skater
1977 – Jun Hori, Japanese journalist and host
1978 – Kara Goucher, American runner
1978 – Nuno Santos, Portuguese footballer1981 – Lee Chun-soo, South Korean footballer1981 – Emily West, American singer-songwriter and guitarist
1982 – Alecko Eskandarian, American soccer player and manager
1982 – Sakon Yamamoto, Japanese race car driver
1983 – Lucia Micarelli, American violinist and actress
1984 – Chris Campoli, Canadian ice hockey player
1984 – Gianni Fabiano, Italian footballer1984 – Jacob Hoggard, Canadian singer-songwriter and guitarist
1984 – Ave Pajo, Estonian footballer1984 – Piia Suomalainen, Finnish tennis player
1984 – LA Tenorio, Filipino basketball player
1985 – Lee Hee-ah, South Korean pianist
1985 – Paweł Korzeniowski, Polish swimmer
1985 – Ashley Young, English footballer1986 – Sébastien Bassong, Cameroonian footballer1986 – Dominic Cervi, American soccer player1986 – Simon Dumont, American skier
1986 – Severo Meza, Mexican footballer1986 – Katie Stam, Miss America 2009
1986 – Kiely Williams, American singer-songwriter and dancer
1987 – Gert Jõeäär, Estonian cyclist
1987 – Rebecca Sugar, American animator, composer, and screenwriter
1988 – Raul Rusescu, Romanian footballer1990 – Aimer, Japanese singer
1990 – Earl Bamber, New Zealand race car driver
1990 – Fábio Pereira da Silva, Brazilian footballer1990 – Rafael, Brazilian footballer

Also statistically she would have been a white English speaking man. I am surprised so few women of colour were born on this day!

 

[LondonJohn]

At least some kind of football player. I notice there was 2 other American Football players who like OJ also were/are broadcasters. Also a Rugby footballer.

But what I like the most is Fred Savage who played Kevin on the Wonder Years and Kelly McGillis from Top Gun and Witness also share that birthday.

More pertinently, the most excellent animator and songsmith Rebecca Sugar was born on the very same day as Amanda Knox (9th July 1987). As was the not-particularly-successful Estonian cyclist Gert Jõeäär*. What can this all mean?!!!!!!

(Note to occasional visitors to the thread, or those with only a passing interest in this case: it's a (genuinely serious) tenet of many pro-guilt commentators that there is strong - and ominous - relevance to the fact that Amanda Knox and OJ Simpson share the same birthday.....)

* Imagine dictating that name over the phone in the US for an application form........

 

[LondonJohn]

LJ, typo alert: "convicted" not "acquitted".

Earlier I wrote that Massei was prosecution-biased. Another example of this was his refusal of the defense's request to have Nara's apartment tested to see if it was even possible for her to have heard what she claimed she did. When British Channel 5 had an Italian audio expert come in, he determined it would have been extremely unlikely that she could have heard what she said she did.
Of course, I'm sure he was just another paid shill.

Ah yes - too late to edit unfortunately! I'd originally written "acquitted by Hellmann", but then I remembered that Curatolo had actually been brought to Hellmann's court from prison, so his prosecution and conviction had taken place after the Massei trial but before the Hellmann appeal. So I changed "Hellmann" to "Massei", but forgot to change "acquitted" to "convicted" accordingly!

The evidence from this case strongly supports the contention - not only in this case in particular, but (in conjunction with other evidence) in criminal trials in Italy in general - that trial courts in Italy effectively start with the premise that the prosecutor's (PM's) case is fair and accurate, and that it is effectively the burden of the defence to actively disprove the prosecution's case. And as part and parcel of this, if the prosecution state that the police work was excellent and professional, and that witnesses are reliable and accurate, the defence have a great deal of trouble in challenging this assertion. It appears that in the eyes of the court, the prosecution have no motive in "bending the truth", and are hugely unlikely to be incompetent or mendacious - whereas it appears taken as read that the defence can be expected to be mendacious and improperly biassed in their attempts to "get their client off".

 

[Stacyhs]

Ah yes - too late to edit unfortunately! I'd originally written "acquitted by Hellmann", but then I remembered that Curatolo had actually been brought to Hellmann's court from prison, so his prosecution and conviction had taken place after the Massei trial but before the Hellmann appeal. So I changed "Hellmann" to "Massei", but forgot to change "acquitted" to "convicted" accordingly!

The evidence from this case strongly supports the contention - not only in this case in particular, but (in conjunction with other evidence) in criminal trials in Italy in general - that trial courts in Italy effectively start with the premise that the prosecutor's (PM's) case is fair and accurate, and that it is effectively the burden of the defence to actively disprove the prosecution's case. And as part and parcel of this, if the prosecution state that the police work was excellent and professional, and that witnesses are reliable and accurate, the defence have a great deal of trouble in challenging this assertion. It appears that in the eyes of the court, the prosecution have no motive in "bending the truth", and are hugely unlikely to be incompetent or mendacious - whereas it appears taken as read that the defence can be expected to be mendacious and improperly biassed in their attempts to "get their client off".

I agree. I can't remember the exact wording Massei used but, IIRC, it was along the lines of the system is inherently impervious to the police lying, etc. Perhaps someone can quote them exactly.

 

[Stacyhs]

At least some kind of football player. I notice there was 2 other American Football players who like OJ also were/are broadcasters. Also a Rugby footballer.

But what I like the most is Fred Savage who played Kevin on the Wonder Years and Kelly McGillis from Top Gun and Witness also share that birthday.

And Tom Hanks! But the stars (heavenly bodies, not celebrities!) a la a certain PGP astrologer would certainly predict he's a vicious serial killer. Speaking of which, Amanda and Raffaele have been free for almost 6 years. I think the PGP should start digging up their backyards.

 

[Bill Williams]

And Tom Hanks! But the stars (heavenly bodies, not celebrities!) a la a certain PGP astrologer would certainly predict he's a vicious serial killer. Speaking of which, Amanda and Raffaele have been free for almost 6 years. I think the PGP should start digging up their backyards.

You may be thinking of what the Marasca-Bruno report wrote, in sustaining the calunnia conviction, and why the appeal to ECHR didn't matter to them.

The farthest the M/B report would go in criticizing the police was to consider that perhaps the police used "unorthodox" methods within what they still thought of as Knox's actions and hers alone.

In fact, an eventual pronouncement by the European Court in favour of the
same Knox, in the sense of a hoped-for recognition of her unorthodox treatment by
the investigators, would not be able, in any way, to undermine the internal [Italian
Court] judgment, nor open the prospect for a revision of the verdict and sentence,
considering that the libelous accusations which the aforementioned defendant made
against Lumumba owing to the impact of the alleged coercive acts were also
confirmed by her before a public prosecutor, during questioning, therefore, in a context free of institutionally anomalous psychological pressures;

Even Marasca and Bruno are predisposed to thinking the cops can do little wrong.

Which makes it all the more devastating to the cops when M/B eventually do lambaste them for blowing the investigation.

 

[Stacyhs]

You may be thinking of what the Marasca-Bruno report wrote, in sustaining the calunnia conviction, and why the appeal to ECHR didn't matter to them.

The farthest the M/B report would go in criticizing the police was to consider that perhaps the police used "unorthodox" methods within what they still thought of as Knox's actions and hers alone.


Even Marasca and Bruno are predisposed to thinking the cops can do little wrong.

Which makes it all the more devastating to the cops when M/B eventually do lambaste them for blowing the investigation.

Yes, that is what I was thinking of. Thanks.

 

[acbytesla]

And Tom Hanks! But the stars (heavenly bodies, not celebrities!) a la a certain PGP astrologer would certainly predict he's a vicious serial killer. Speaking of which, Amanda and Raffaele have been free for almost 6 years. I think the PGP should start digging up their backyards.

He did play an assassin in on movie. But that was obviously an exception.

 

[Stacyhs]

He did play an assassin in on movie. But that was obviously an exception.

Nah! It was obviously the role closest to his true real life inclinations. The stars are never wrong!

 

[Bill Williams]

With Vixen not posting, what are we supposed to do with ourselves?

 

[Numbers]

A summary of the ECHR judgment in the case of Lorefice v. Italy, finding a violation of Convention Article 6 (right to a fair trial). The judgment is available only in French.

There is relevance to the Italian courts' attempts to use statements from Guede against Amanda and Raffaele without hearing Guede's testimony or allowing his cross-examination (he refused to testify as allowed by law). There is also relevance in the Chieffi CSC panel and Nencini court overturning the Hellmann court negative evaluation of the credibility of prosecution witnesses including Curatolo and Quintavalle.

The ECHR judgment shows that dysfunction and unfairness occurs in the some cases in the Italian judicial system, in the opinion of objective judicial authorities who are duty-bound to issue such binding judgments by the European Convention on Human Rights.

Here is the summary:

Violation of the right to a fair trial for a person who was convicted by the appeal court without the prosecution witnesses having been heard in person

In today’s Chamber judgment in the case of Lorefice v. Italy (application no. 63446/13) the European Court of Human Rights held, unanimously, that there had been:

a violation of Article 6 § 1 (right to a fair trial) of the European Convention on Human Rights

The case concerned Mr Lorefice’s complaint concerning the fairness of criminal proceedings which had resulted in his conviction by a court of appeal. Mr Lorefice was initially acquitted, as the first-instance court found that the statements made by two witnesses were imprecise, illogical and incoherent, and that the evidence given by one of them was not credible.

Mr Lorefice was then convicted by the court of appeal on the basis of the same witness statements, without the witnesses having been reheard. In establishing Mr Lorefice’s guilt, the appeal court instead examined the witness statements as they had been recorded in the transcripts included in the case file.

The Court found in particular that the court of appeal’s failure to rehear evidence from these two witnesses and/or other witnesses before setting aside the lower court’s judgment acquitting Mr Lorefice had compromised the fairness of his trial.

The Court reiterated that those with responsibility for deciding on a defendant’s guilt or innocence ought, in principle, to hear oral testimony from witnesses in person and to assess their credibility.

_____
Here is a synopsis of the judicial actions:

1. Mr. Lorefice is found not guilty of charges by the court of first instance (due in part to the non-credible statements made by two witnesses, according to the first-instance court which heard them in person).

2. The prosecution appeals the innocent verdict. The appeal court finds Mr. Lorefice guilty based in part by examining the questionable witness statements as they had been recorded in the transcripts instead of actually hearing the actual witnesses testify in court.

3. The Court of Cassation upheld the conviction of the appeal court; according to the ECHR judgment:

The Supreme Court of Cassation (CSC) upheld the appeal court's verdict of conviction on the grounds that it was "logical" and furthermore, according to the CSC, there is no Italian law requiring the appeals court to rehear witnesses (although the law allows the appeal court to do so if it finds that necessary) to decide that the testimony is or is not credible:

"The Supreme Court noted further that there was no general rule requiring the Appeals Judge to reopen the trial for a reformatio in pejus* of the trial judgment, the only obligation of that judge being to motivate his decision in a rigorous manner as to the reasons which led him to deviate from the first verdict." {Google translation of part of paragraph 24 of the judgment (original in French)}.

* means appoximately: changing the judgment to be worse (for the appellant); the meaning of the original text may be "there is no legal requirement for the appeals court to re-open the trial and hear witnesses to avoid changing the judgment to be worse for the appellant, the only legal obligation of the appeals court under Italian law is to support any deviation from the original verdict with seemingly logical reasoning."

4. The ECHR judged that the Italian appeal court unfairly convicted Lorefice because it did not hear the witnesses in person, relying only on the transcript, and thus could not accurately evaluate their credibility. The ECHR pointed out that in its jurisprudence, the CSC had acknowledged an appeal court must hear a witness in person if making a judgment of credibility, based on ECHR case-law:

"27. Referring to the case-law of the {ECHR} Court, inter alia, in Dan [v. Moldova (No. 8999/07, 5 July 2011)], the Italian Court of Cassation has repeatedly stated that the appellate judge who seeks to reverse a judgment of acquittal must rehear witnesses in so far as their statements are decisive in concluding the conviction of the accused and {determine} whether their credibility must be re-evaluated (inter alia, judgment of the 5th Section No. 38085 of 5 July 2012)." {Google translated from French}

5. The ECHR awarded compensation (just satisfaction) to Lorefice and indicated that, at his request, he was entitled to a retrial with all of his rights under the Convention respected - that is, the credibility of the witnesses would need to be evaluated by in-person testimony, barring justification allowed by ECHR case-law.

 

[Stacyhs]

Did Lorefice get the retrial? If so, do we know the outcome?