skyeagle409
Master Poster
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I agree! It is unfortunate that Trump can lie way to the moon and hardcore Trump supporters will continue to see nothing wrong and that is very dangerous.
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The Trump Presidency
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I agree! It is unfortunate that Trump can lie way to the moon and hardcore Trump supporters will continue to see nothing wrong and that is very dangerous.
Fast Eddie B
Philosopher
And I agree as well!
To the extent I think there's something wrong with the man.
My statement was that my friends who voted for him
are not stupid people, and I think that's demonstrably true and I stand by that statement.
It may be satisfying to paint one's opposition as "stupid", but I think it obscures a deeper truth.
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Babbylonian
Penultimate Amazing
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That they might be intelligent but completely amoral misogynist greedheads?
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
What is the deeper truth?
Spindrift
Time Person of the Year, 2006
I think the deeper truth is that an awful lot of supposedly not stupid people did something stupid. They believed Trump and then voted for him. And many of those have doubled down on the stupid and still believe the things he says.
As the great philosopher said, "Stupid is as stupid does."
Hey now! They articulated vague populist pablum as their reason for voting for him. They "like what he stands for," which totally isn't a loaded statement that allows them to avoid saying the reasons they're ashamed to admit to others.
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
No, they could be racists or bigots of some type.
Trumps lies were well publicized before the election. (It was then that we knew that he lied more than Clinton.) We were also quite familiar with many of Trump's scandals (bribing an elected official with Trump foundation money, Trump University, etc.) that dwarf any possible scandals by Clinton. And we knew that many of Trump's big promises (mexico will pay for a wall, Trump's health care plan, etc.) either would not work, or were completely empty of content.
If someone voted for Trump, either 1) they were bigots (despite any suggestion that "they would have voted for some hypothetical black woman candidate), or 2) they were willfully ignorant of facts that were easy to find.
You may think that, but it doesn't necessarily make it so.
Trump's victory was based partly on bigotry, partly on people easily being conned. The democrats do have to find a way to get through the 'conning'. But any attempt to portray this as something deeper would be a wasted effort. The Democrats do not need a 'better' message, they just need to cut through the B.S.
Fast Eddie B
Philosopher
My guess?
Something about the appeal of authoritarianism and populism when packaged in a certain fashion. By what I would label a demagogue. And there's no denying it appealed to a wide swath of America's population.
It has a long history, and Trump's mannerisms and delivery still evoke comparisons to Mussolini, in my mind.
To dismiss his supporters as stupid or racist or misogynistic is to gloss over what really went on. It may be satisfying, but is overly simplistic.
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Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
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The stupid thing was not to vote for what Trump "stands for", but to
Both, I think, are very true about Trump, but only #1 is somewhat true about Mrs. Clinton.
- believe he stands for the things he claims he stands for, in the face of contrary evidence
- vote for a person who is eminently unqualified for the job. Having no job experience at all is NOT an asset.
Both, I think, are very true about Trump, but only #1 is somewhat true about Mrs. Clinton.
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I wonder how the GOP primary would have turned out if just one GOP candidate had turned to Trump and asked, "What the hell is the matter with you?" Although, primary voters were willing to look past this answer to the question, "What's your priority among our nuclear triad?"
Trump, "Well, first of all, I think we need somebody absolutely that we can trust, who is totally responsible, who really knows what he or she is doing. That is so powerful and so important. And one of the things that I'm frankly most proud of is that in 2003, 2004, I was totally against going into Iraq because you're going to destabilize the Middle East. I called it. I called it very strongly. And it was very important. But we have to be extremely vigilant and extremely careful when it comes to nuclear. Nuclear changes the whole ballgame. Frankly, I would have said get out of Syria; get out – if we didn't have the power of weaponry today. The power is so massive that we can't just leave areas that 50 years ago or 75 years ago we wouldn't care. It was hand-to-hand combat. The biggest problem this world has today is not President Obama with global warming, which is inconceivable, this is what he's saying. The biggest problem we have is nuclear – nuclear proliferation and having some maniac, having some madman go out and get a nuclear weapon. That's in my opinion, that is the single biggest problem that our country faces right now."
At which point Hugh Hewitt tried to get the senile old man back on the same page as the question, "Of the three legs of the triad, though, do you have a priority? I want to go to Sen. Rubio after that and ask him."
Trump, "I think – I think, for me, nuclear is just the power, the devastation is very important to me."
At that point only an idiot, bigot and/or the willfully ignorant could vote for him.
Trump, "Well, first of all, I think we need somebody absolutely that we can trust, who is totally responsible, who really knows what he or she is doing. That is so powerful and so important. And one of the things that I'm frankly most proud of is that in 2003, 2004, I was totally against going into Iraq because you're going to destabilize the Middle East. I called it. I called it very strongly. And it was very important. But we have to be extremely vigilant and extremely careful when it comes to nuclear. Nuclear changes the whole ballgame. Frankly, I would have said get out of Syria; get out – if we didn't have the power of weaponry today. The power is so massive that we can't just leave areas that 50 years ago or 75 years ago we wouldn't care. It was hand-to-hand combat. The biggest problem this world has today is not President Obama with global warming, which is inconceivable, this is what he's saying. The biggest problem we have is nuclear – nuclear proliferation and having some maniac, having some madman go out and get a nuclear weapon. That's in my opinion, that is the single biggest problem that our country faces right now."
At which point Hugh Hewitt tried to get the senile old man back on the same page as the question, "Of the three legs of the triad, though, do you have a priority? I want to go to Sen. Rubio after that and ask him."
Trump, "I think – I think, for me, nuclear is just the power, the devastation is very important to me."
At that point only an idiot, bigot and/or the willfully ignorant could vote for him.
Spindrift
Time Person of the Year, 2006
Okay, I see your point.
In the past America has built up demagogues but has never put one in the White House. William Jennings Bryan, Huey Long, George Wallace and Joseph McCarthy all had their arcs of popularity but none was ever able to grab the prize. After being able to fend off those and having the examples of Hitler and Mussolini still within our collective memories, the fact that Donald Trump is the one to do it, it is so galling that the only rational explanation is that a large portion of the US populace is just stupid or insane.
Skeptic Ginger
Nasty Woman
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And yet you can't tell the difference between disliking a politician for whatever reason and electing a narcissistic con artist.
Regnad Kcin
Penultimate Amazing
While I, myself, am not on board with the Trump-voters-are-stupid point of view, I'm finding it difficult to assign much intelligence to support for the man.
Belz...
Fiend God
Notice how he holds his hands when he's meeting important people and sitting down? A sign of nervousness or stress?
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
But if that is not stupid, what is it? Gullibility? Ignorance of history? An inability to apply the lessons of history to current times?
It's not like Trump came out of nowhere. Those large swaths of the American population believed in a man with a long track record as a narcissist and a con man. A man who literally used confidence schemes to cheat people out of their money. It's all very good, safe even, to claim that there is something more there that is not easy to see or define, but if it cannot be articulated, even in highly technical terms, how can we say it exists?
What did really go on?
Mumbles
Philosopher
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Well, it could be appeal to racism. And of course, some people will just vote for party no matter what.
(Hey, is that your kid in your avatar? So cute...)
Fast Eddie B
Philosopher
How in the world did you get there from my assertion that my Trump-voting friends were not stupid?
surrogate
Muse
I know plenty of people who possess >= average intelligence, but really haven't a clue regarding politics. Maybe your friends are just politically stupid.
Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
One of two and you're damn right.
I hope not. I would genuinely like to know why any rational person would look at Trump and think he was a reasonable choice for POTUS.
Of course, you should also be prepared for the possibility, no matter how much you like your friends, that there isn't a reasonable or rational reason to vote for Trump and that there could be more nefarious, if perhaps unconscious, reasons.
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