Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories V: Five for Fighting

[MicahJava]

Oh look, here's Fincks ARRB deposition and starting on page 19 he talks about the entry wound:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=787#relPageId=19&tab=page

And if you read the whole thing, which you won't, he says the scalp had been cut and peeled back by the time he arrived. Plus, this guy doesn't remember a lot of things by 1996.

And?... We've been over what Finck told the ARRB.

By the way, another understated point is that the statements of Humes & Boswell and Finck to the HSCA indicate that they had to make a special incision low in the back of the head to expose the entry wound in the skull corresponding to the wound in the scalp, after the initial incision had already been made to reflect the scalp and remove the brain. If the entry wound was on the upper cowlick part of the head, just the regular first reflection of the scalp would be enough to see the corresponding wound in the skull bone.

 

[MicahJava]

My question to MicahJava is still what difference does a couple of inches difference in the entry wound location make? MicahJava treats the difference as if this difference necessarily makes a conspiracy. Both the WC and HSCA both reported that a SINGLE bullet wound entry at the back of the head caused the damage. No "second" bullet wound was noted.
Where is the conspiracy?

It's a difference of four to five inches.

The difference indicates more than one gunshot wound to the head. A bullet entering the original EOP location and exiting the top of the head almost certainly would've caused severe damage to the cerebellum, which is not seen on the official brain photographs, and it would also be very difficult to explain the pattern of fragments on the X-rays, not to mention the strange trajectory.

 

[RoboTimbo]

It's a difference of four to five inches.

The difference indicates more than one gunshot wound to the head. A bullet entering the original EOP location and exiting the top of the head almost certainly would've caused severe damage to the cerebellum, which is not seen on the official brain photographs, and it would also be very difficult to explain the pattern of fragments on the X-rays, not to mention the strange trajectory.

Are you a trunk monkeyist?

 

[bknight]

It's a difference of four to five inches.

The difference indicates more than one gunshot wound to the head. A bullet entering the original EOP location and exiting the top of the head almost certainly would've caused severe damage to the cerebellum, which is not seen on the official brain photographs, and it would also be very difficult to explain the pattern of fragments on the X-rays, not to mention the strange trajectory.

Total speculation with no facts to back it up.

 

[OKBob]

The difference indicates more than one gunshot wound to the head.

And there you have your answer, bknight. Okay, MJ, you've stated your position. But you still have all your work before you. Now that you've put two entrance wounds in JFK's skull, it's time to forget about brain removal and the rest of your current spiel. Let's say, arguendo, that we grant you your two entrance wounds in the head. Now, please reconcile the rest of the evidence--medical, ballistic, and so forth--with this two-wound scenario. And try to do so without positing altered evidence, testimonial perjury, or some other official chicanery, unless you can actually prove such things. It's in your court.

 

[MicahJava]

And there you have your answer, bknight. Okay, MJ, you've stated your position. But you still have all your work before you. Now that you've put two entrance wounds in JFK's skull, it's time to forget about brain removal and the rest of your current spiel. Let's say, arguendo, that we grant you your two entrance wounds in the head. Now, please reconcile the rest of the evidence--medical, ballistic, and so forth--with this two-wound scenario. And try to do so without positing altered evidence, testimonial perjury, or some other official chicanery, unless you can actually prove such things. It's in your court.

A tangential wound is one large missile wound of both entrance and exit.

 

[turingtest]

A tangential wound is one large missile wound of both entrance and exit.

Somehow, I don't think that when OKBob said "all your work before you," tossing off this easy one-liner assertion in place of evidence for it is what he had in mind.

 

[bknight]

A tangential wound is one large missile wound of both entrance and exit.

During the Zapruder film no images of a second head wound exists, nor is there any indication in the autopsy report of a second wound. Sorry that dog won't hunt.

 

[MicahJava]

During the Zapruder film no images of a second head wound exists, nor is there any indication in the autopsy report of a second wound. Sorry that dog won't hunt.

Gunshots don't always work like in the movies.

 

[MicahJava]

Total speculation with no facts to back it up.

Okay, then why don't you stand by the original EOP location for the small head wound and wait to see where the forensic evidence leads from there.

Edit: why do I have a red frowny face above my comment? I didn't put it there and I can't remove it.

 

[RoboTimbo]

Okay, then why don't you stand by the original EOP location for the small head wound and wait to see where the forensic evidence leads from there.

Edit: why do I have a red frowny face above my comment? I didn't put it there and I can't remove it.

Tell me more about this tangential wound.

 

[OKBob]

A tangential wound is one large missile wound of both entrance and exit.

So now you're positing one bullet that caused all the wounds you've been discussing? Please stop dodging. You seem to pride yourself on being a heroic private detective working for the memory of JFK. Do you think the cat-and-mouse game you're playing here is worthy of that high calling?

 

[HSienzant]

During the Zapruder film no images of a second head wound exists, nor is there any indication in the autopsy report of a second wound. Sorry that dog won't hunt.

Gunshots don't always work like in the movies.

Straw man. No one suggested they do. Now try responding to the actual points made for a change.

Hank

 

[BStrong]

Gunshots don't always work like in the movies.

Considering the sum of your knowledge of GSW's is CT's and popular fiction, that's pretty funny.

How much bandwidth has been wasted by you trying to ram the square peg of some other guy's CT into the round hole of reality?

 

[HSienzant]

It's a difference of four to five inches.

The difference indicates more than one gunshot wound to the head.

According to which autopsy doctor who had JFK's body in front of them to examine or which qualified forensic pathologist who reviewed the extant autopsy materials?

What's that? This is solely your own NON-EXPERT opinion? You have no valid qualifications worthy of mention? And no reason to be telling us what you think occurred?

A bullet entering the original EOP location and exiting the top of the head almost certainly would've caused severe damage to the cerebellum, which is not seen on the official brain photographs

So you are admitting the evidence indicates it did NOT happen and you are just wasting time until your train arrives?

and it would also be very difficult to explain the pattern of fragments on the X-rays, not to mention the strange trajectory.

So you're providing even more evidence it did NOT happen and you're just treating us to various musings of MicahJava on a warm summer day?

What do you see in that cloud?

Hank

 

[HSienzant]

And?... We've been over what Finck told the ARRB.

And we learned testimony decades after the fact is unreliable, often self-contradictory, and doesn't support your preferred solution in the slightest.

By the way, another understated point is that the statements of Humes & Boswell and Finck to the HSCA indicate that they had to make a special incision low in the back of the head to expose the entry wound in the skull corresponding to the wound in the scalp, after the initial incision had already been made to reflect the scalp and remove the brain. If the entry wound was on the upper cowlick part of the head, just the regular first reflection of the scalp would be enough to see the corresponding wound in the skull bone.

No free fringe reset for you. We've covered your arguments extensively.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11897951&postcount=689

Hank

 

[bknight]

Gunshots don't always work like in the movies.

However this movie was of a real live event. The President clutching at a throat wound and then the top of his head being blown off, leaving real traces, not film artifacts that match the ammunition used by LHO for all the wounds. There is no mystery here and what I believe is irrelevant what has been proved by autopsy reports and several reviews. One shooter, three shots, two hits.

 

[HSienzant]

That's not what I asked and you know it.

And, importantly, the area of the skull around the large defect was so fractured that pieces would naturally break off. Very little sawing of the skull was necessary. So since the X-rays show the cowlick fracture right beside the large defect, the cowlick area of the skull would have been among the pieces to naturally break off. Since Dr. Finck arrived to the autopsy after the skull cavity was enlarged and the brain was removed yet could still examine the entry wound in the intact rest of the skull, this indicates that the entry wound was not on the upper cowlick area as theorized by the HSCA.

The bolded sentence is not supported by any evidence and is in fact contradicted by the testimony of the actual autopsy doctors and the autopsy report and the autopsy x-rays you yourself provided here. You won't be able to provide anything that says the entry wound portion of the skull broke off from the rest of the skull and I previously quoted extensively from the autopsy doctors to establish that argument was wrong. The conclusion you reach in the final sentence above is therefore erroneous because you are relying on 'facts' not in evidence.

No free fringe reset for you.

Hank

 

[Axxman300]

I performed an experiment with MJ and it went as expected.

I linked to a site that is friendly to CTists, and suggested he read the entire deposition beyond the pages I mentioned to get a better picture of the autopsy from both men.

He didn't read a word.

He refers to a handful of photographs and TWO head x-rays as if they are definitive enough to base a medical assessment. They are not, they are the JFK equivalent to Patterson's Bigfoot film, wherein you can see something, but there is not enough information.

The two men who had hands on JFK's body, and dissected the skull agree on the entry point and what they saw. Only a fool argues against them.

 

[Axxman300]

I'm going to join the chorus calling MJ out:

What's your theory on who killed JFK?

If not Oswald then who?

Remember, you need to explain why they used his rifle, how they knew he worked at the TSBD, why he was the only employee to flee the crime scene, and why - if he was innocent - did he shoot Tippet?

If it wasn't his rifle, then exactly what other caliber can produce an equal amount of damage?

You also have to list suspects with enough influence to sway the Secret Service, FBI, Earl Warren, RFK, and LBJ.