Destroyed Atlantis = Menorah

[fuelair]

But you are rejecting the physical evidence that does that!

We think differently.

I simply cannot get my head around your reasoning...

"Underwater ruins in the Atlantic cannot be tied to Plato's sunken Atlantis."

You are wrong.

That is utterly, completely, totally, WRONG. Backwards...NOT correct, a failure of logic and reason...is there another way to put it?

Sincerely, I wish you the best, but for now, we are at an impasse.

I have no further desire to pursue this exchange.

I am sure you do not as that is not a point with anything at all to support it. You can locate, however you wish, all the sunken ancient cities locatable and you will still have no proof that any one of them is Atlantis. Primarily because Plato made up a fictional land and population to make points in philosophy, not to produce real history.

 

[fuelair]

It is not evidence of your claims. There are hatloads of sunken ruins around Europe. You have simply glommed onto one and asserted that it is Atlantis despite the fact that it does not match Plato's description

You still have not demonstrated a link between the random set of ruins you glommed onto and Atlantis.

Knock it off with the insults.

Not to mention that response to your post sounds a lot like a request for a suspension.

 

[fuelair]

Not to mention that response to your post sounds a lot like a request for a suspension.

And apparently it was!!!!!

 

[xjx388]

This sentence...

I do not know this theory to be true, but I do believe it is the best possible explanation, given all the data we now have, for the origins of the "pattern" now used as a candlestick holder.

Consider your position for a moment, KOTA. You truly believe that an old story from Plato about a place that has never been proven to exist coupled with your own searches of Google Earth and some other minutia is the best possible explanation for the design of the Menorah?

Why can't it just be a simple arrangement of 7 candles that have symbolic meaning? The design was spelled out in the Torah which was probably written in the 6th century BC and Plato didn't describe Atlantis until around 360 BC. There is no other connection between the two other than the one alleged in Atlantis Rising. They are basically taking carvings they found and saying that this is probably Atlantis based on nothing but conjecture.

It's a fun story, maybe, but we can theorize a million other possibilities. To say that this is the best explanation for the menorah is a huge stretch of the imagination.

 

[King of the Americas]

Well, KOTA has been suspended for 3 days........

Yup, so I banned ISF for 3 days in turn...

 

[King of the Americas]

Semi-circular?


Having just caught up with this thread it appears the dating claim was based on a simplistic assumption that the Younger Dryas period was when sea levels rose therefore any submerged buildings must pre-date that time. The notion that the level of the land might change locally and at other times seems not to have been considered.

Indeed, an oversight on my part.

Yet, I believe posting evidence that other sites have sank due to earthquakes isn't evidence contrary to Plato's story, but rather confirms that it happened on other occasions, making Plato's story MORE plausible.

 

[abaddon]

Yup, so I banned ISF for 3 days in turn...

Wait, wut? You got a three day suspension and somehow decided that it was you that issued a ban on ISF? For coincidentally three days?

How exactly does that work?

 

[King of the Americas]

Back in the Dryas, no Atlantean ass was dry.

This is NOT an attempt to derail...

 

[abaddon]

This is NOT an attempt to derail...

Correct. It is perfectly on topic. Unless you want to now claim that neither the dryas nor atlantis actually are the topic and you have been talking about something else.

 

[King of the Americas]

I am sure you do not as that is not a point with anything at all to support it. You can locate, however you wish, all the sunken ancient cities locatable and you will still have no proof that any one of them is Atlantis. Primarily because Plato made up a fictional land and population to make points in philosophy, not to produce real history.

If you reject Plato's story as fiction, then indeed it would be IMPOSSIBLE to provide you proof or evidence of its existence.

You, of course have ZERO evidence that Plato said this story was fiction, in fact Plato says he story is true based on a previous historian's tale.

I suppose I could do the same with you- YOU are fictional, "fuelair" is a made up name, and you don't represent facts, but rather a skeptical philosophy that you push with ignorance, personal attacks, and false narratives.

You added Plato to your ignore list.

Don't do that.

 

[abaddon]

If you reject Plato's story as fiction, then indeed it would be IMPOSSIBLE to provide you proof or evidence of its existence.

No you would simply have to provide proof and evidence. I remain unsure which part of that gives you difficulty.

You, of course have ZERO evidence that Plato said this story was fiction, in fact Plato says he story is true based on a previous historian's tale.

Except that you made that up out of whole cloth.

I suppose I could do the same with you- YOU are fictional, "fuelair" is a made up name, and you don't represent facts, but rather a skeptical philosophy that you push with ignorance, personal attacks, and false narratives.

Ooooo. Let's play that game. I am abaddon. Gatekeeper of hell, taker of souls, Angel of the ultimate Abyss. You shall find me in Revelations 9:11.

Now what?

You added Plato to your ignore list.

Don't do that.

How many people have you added publically to your ignore list?

 

[Pixel42]

Yet, I believe posting evidence that other sites have sank due to earthquakes isn't evidence contrary to Plato's story, but rather confirms that it happened on other occasions, making Plato's story MORE plausible.

Does the fact that volcanos exist make Tolkien's stories about Mount Doom more plausible? Does the fact that boarding schools exist make J K Rowling's stories about Hogwart's more plausible?

 

[Nay_Sayer]

Yup, so I banned ISF for 3 days in turn...

Yeah, No you didn't.

I concur with myriads post.

 

[King of the Americas]

If ANYONE here would like to present an alternative theory for the origins of the "pattern" that became the menorah, I would LOVE to see it and their corresponding evidence.

My activity within this thread is thusly ended.

 

[Zivan]

If ANYONE here would like to present an alternative theory for the origins of the "pattern" that became the menorah, I would LOVE to see it and their corresponding evidence.

The evidence was given to you and you chose to ignore it.

 

[Zivan]

If ANYONE here would like to present an alternative theory for the origins of the "pattern" that became the menorah, I would LOVE to see it and their corresponding evidence.

My activity within this thread is thusly ended.

"You can lead a horse to water......."

 

[Mojo]

KoTA's case is a bit like an attempt to prosecute Lee Shelton for the murder of William Lyons, with the only evidence being Mississippi John Hurt's recording of the song from over 30 years after the event.

"Well, OK, your honour, none of the details in the song match the alleged event, and Mr. Hurt was nowhere near the crime scene, but he clearly stated that Stagolee shot Billy."

 

[Foolmewunz]

If ANYONE here would like to present an alternative theory for the origins of the "pattern" that became the menorah, I would LOVE to see it and their corresponding evidence.

My activity within this thread is thusly ended.

That isn't the way it works. And after your repeated schooling here, you should know it by now.

You have presented the "alternate theory". It is a theory. It has no proof, whatsoever. It has been rejected, just as my counter-theory that the design of Atlantis was really reverse-engineered from the Menorah since Atlantis was obviously founded by the legendary Lost Tribe of Israel.

No one is required to come up with an alternate theory to your patchwork latest flavor-of-the-month magical beliefs. You are required to come up with something other than, "Well, think about it.... it could've been, right?" We call it "evidence". You might familiarize yourself with that term as you move on to your next hodge-podge theory.

 

[Cervelo]

Your mischaracterization of me and my stance toward the scientific method, archeology, and the research I have presented here is YOUR failure.

Your pathetic attempt to disparage me is...

"No longer my concern."

You've never applied anything remotely scientific to this discussion, fantastical conjecture and contrived logic maybe.
Your failure is your own, maybe educated yourself on the scientific method and try again when your not so ignorant of its application.

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

I have three theories.

1: Since humans like to build near water, many settlements have sunk beneath it over many millennia. None of these were in any way special or more powerful than their surroundings and none of them died in a spectacular fashion giving rise to major legends. In fact, most will have been forgotten within a generation. This is based upon the fact that in modern times many cities in the Netherlands have drowned, we have maps of where they roughly were and still the locations have mostly been forgotten.

2: Plato wanted to criticize what he felt was overconfidence in the leadership of Athens, but would rather not be forced to drink a cup of poison for his efforts, so he used allegory to create a fictional powerful city a long time ago on an island far away that just happened to have characteristics of modern day Athens that was punished by the gods and if readers happened do draw links, well that was not his fault was it? Based upon the fact that Plato used allegory and fictional characters a lot and saw what had happened to Socrates when he did not.

3: Temples are dark inside and the priests of the emerging Jewish faith wanted a special ceremonial lamp that was the same anywhere. They used the shape of a local plant for the initial design. Based upon the fact that it actually says so in their holy text.

4: None of these events are related.