Merged All things Trump + Russia

[d4m10n]

Seriously?

Should I list just the coups we engineered to get rid of legitimately elected leaders because they weren't conveniently cooperating with US corporations who were harvesting the country's natural resources?

Or do you not count anything more than a decade old?

I'm not seeing an example here.

 

[Lurch]

Even if true, and I believe it may be not, now it is too late to dump Trump.
And the idea that a person who has become President and has 4 billion dollars is a "dummy" is below ridiculous



After the US interfered with a zillion of election processes abroad they can hardly be complaining for this I think

You "believe" it to be untrue.

It's never too late to undo a mistake.

Wealth is not a measure of a man's character. Drumpf has welched on paying contractors on his way to accruing his wealth. Numerous are the scummy means by which this reprehensible person has slimed his way upward.

That wealth is considered by too many as a positive reflection of character is a sorry level to which gullible people haven't​n America sunk.

And America's past transgressions against other nations now make it OK for an undesirable to be hoisted to power at home? How about if Hillary instead of Drumpf was the beneficiary of that external interference?

 

[Sideroxylon]

I'm not seeing an example here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d'état

 

[d4m10n]

After the US interfered with a zillion of election processes abroad they can hardly be complaining for this I think

What is your best example of the U.S. trying to swing an otherwise free and fair election?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1954_Guatemalan_coup_d'état

Which free and fair election was tampered with here? Presunably you mean the one in Nov 1950.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

I'm not seeing an example here.

I didn't realize basic history would be such a problem.

Allende: Chilean coup: 40 years ago I watched Pinochet crush a democratic dream

How the drama and repression developed as a US-backed coup overthrew Allende's government on 11 September 1973

Mossadegh: Timeline: U.S.-Iran relations from 1953 coup to 2016 prisoner swap

1953 - CIA helps orchestrate overthrow of Iran's popular Prime Minister Mohammed Mossadegh, restoring to power the Shah, Mohammed Reza Pahlavi.

Aristide: Jean-Bertrand Aristide (born 15 July 1953) is a Haitian priest and politician who became Haiti's first democratically elected president.[1][2]
First we were for him, then not so much:

However, Aristide was ousted in a 2004 coup d'état, in which one of his former soldiers participated. He accused the United States of orchestrating the coup d'état against him with support from Jamaican prime minister P. J. Patterson, among others.[5] Aristide was later forced into exile in the Central African Republic[5] and South Africa. He finally returned to Haiti in 2011 after seven years in exile.[6]

United States involvement in regime change

 

[d4m10n]

Skeptic Ginger - Which of those is your best example of the U.S. interfering with an election process?

 

[logger]

The president needs to fire Mueller. Comey says he leaked the memo to get a special prosecutor appointed, it just happened to be his good friend Mueller. He can't run an impartial investigation.

 

[Antonio Coceri]

You "believe" it to be untrue.

It's never too late to undo a mistake.

Unfortunately for you, Trump-hater , the only way for Trump to be kicked out now would be through impeachment

unlikely

Wealth is not a measure of a man's character. Drumpf has welched on paying contractors on his way to accruing his wealth. Numerous are the scummy means by which this reprehensible person has slimed his way upward.

This by many people is percisely the definition of being smart

That wealth is considered by too many as a positive reflection of character is a sorry level to which gullible people haven't​n America sunk.

That wealth is considered by too many as a positive reflection of character is not only about America and not only about now

And America's past transgressions against other nations now make it OK for an undesirable to be hoisted to power at home?

No but make people who whine now and are silent when Iran complains for having had their hos removed in 1953 as pathetic people

How about if Hillary instead of Drumpf was the beneficiary of that external interference?

As if there were any difference between one pathetic liar and power hungry person and another pathetic liar and power hungry person ..

 

[Belz...]

Skeptic Ginger - Which of those is your best example of the U.S. interfering with an election process?

Does removing a democratically-elected leader to put an autocrat in his stead count?

 

[NoahFence]

The president needs to fire Mueller. Comey says he leaked the memo to get a special prosecutor appointed, it just happened to be his good friend Mueller. He can't run an impartial investigation.

You think the memos were leaked? You're not talking about his notes are you? Cuz that would be pretty funny.

 

[BobTheCoward]

The president needs to fire Mueller. Comey says he leaked the memo to get a special prosecutor appointed, it just happened to be his good friend Mueller. He can't run an impartial investigation.

Prosecutors and cops are not impartial. That is the whole point. Their job isn't to be impartial but to win cases. Impartiality in an adversarial system is left to the judge.

 

[NoahFence]

Wow.

 

[Aridas]

The president needs to fire Mueller. Comey says he leaked the memo to get a special prosecutor appointed, it just happened to be his good friend Mueller. He can't run an impartial investigation.

The President can't fire Mueller, at last check. By design, no less. Still, on a quick look, I see that Comey and Mueller's past relationship is quite the fodder for conservative websites to claim conspiracy and bias. Of course, so is that Comey and Mueller met to discuss what he was allowed to talk about during the hearing.

Still, I do have a very simple point to note. Comey and Mueller were both heads of the FBI and served one after another. That they've had a friendly relationship is not even remotely surprising and should have been pretty obviously on the table since the moment that he was selected. Furthermore, Comey, while he did blast Trump on some fairly obvious and well-known points, didn't actually accuse Trump of wrongdoing, but just stated the facts and left the rest to the people who would need to decide anyways. With that said, I wouldn't especially mind the switching out special prosecutors, but I question whether there's anyone that the right wouldn't be going out of their way to try to demonize instead of just letting do their job and follow the evidence where it leads. For example, I can easily see Fox News trying to roast anyone selected who has even stated anything remotely critical of Trump, screaming bias to the heavens and demanding for their removal, rather than put any focus on whether the criticism was valid or not.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Skeptic Ginger - Which of those is your best example of the U.S. interfering with an election process?

OMG, Damian, this porridge is too hot said Goldilocks, I need something cooler.

Putin thinks Clinton interfered in his election, we could look there.

Oh wait, that porridge is too cold, Russia didn't have a legit election.

You're going to have to explain why only a specific kind of election interference matters here when a US backed coup isn't relative.

 

[Belz...]

Prosecutors and cops are not impartial. That is the whole point. Their job isn't to be impartial but to win cases. Impartiality in an adversarial system is left to the judge.

That might be the case for prosecutors and attorneys but cops and investigators aren't supposed to be biased.

 

[Aridas]

As if there were any difference between one pathetic liar and power hungry person and another pathetic liar and power hungry person ..

Degree tends to matter

I don't blame anyone for not wanting Hillary. I didn't really want her, myself, though. I fully admit that I voted for her instead of a third party candidate primarily because Trump was quite clearly so very much worse for the country, though, and that opinion seems to have been verified beyond any reasonable doubt. Whether the backlash against Trump will help push the country back onto a better course than it would have ended up under Hillary is a questionable thing and I'm not especially fond of trusting in long shots like that.

You think the memos were leaked? You're not talking about his notes are you? Cuz that would be pretty funny.

Comey openly admitting to doing so. They weren't classified from the start, though, so there's pretty much nothing that he could be prosecuted for, anyways.

 

[BobTheCoward]

That might be the case for prosecutors and attorneys but cops and investigators aren't supposed to be biased.

They are not supposed to be bias against people based on status, but their job isn't to be finders of facts. Their job is to close cases. of a partial cop does a better job, then that is better at meeting the system's design.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

You think the memos were leaked? You're not talking about his notes are you? Cuz that would be pretty funny.

Logger has a wishful timeline there.

Mueller appointed May 17th.

Loyalty, the leak and Michael Flynn: A timeline of the Trump-Comey saga

It was a May 12 tweet from Trump, Comey told the Senate intelligence committee, that spurred him to leak contents of his memos documenting interactions with the President to the press.

May 15th Comey had the memos leaked.

If two days later Mueller was appointed, the memos didn't have time to have squat to do with it.

 

[CapelDodger]

The position that Trump held was candidate for President and he has been eminently successful in this position

He was successful in that position - candidate. As President elect and President he's been disastrous. Why else do you think he keeps re-living the campaign, in his public ramblings and Trump 2000 rallies?

 

[CapelDodger]

Comey openly admitting to doing so. They weren't classified from the start, though, so there's pretty much nothing that he could be prosecuted for, anyways.

Out of the cast of characters in this story Comey is not the one who's made a blunder, I'm entirely confident of that.