Cont: JFK Conspiracy Theories V: Five for Fighting

[BStrong]

So according to Boswell and Finck, the "red spot" you reference was a laceration, and according to Finck, that laceration corresponded to the entry wound on the skull underneath.

Doesn't that make the red spot the entry wound on the scalp - the one visible on the back of the head autopsy photos?

Hank

I simply can't believe that I've missed this all these years!

After examining the various photos and drawings and a review of my own extensive archives, I've come to the conclusion that not only is The Great American Lee Harvey Oswald innocent, The "red spot" on JFK's head wasn't a impact wound and JFK was not killed by gunfire.

It is the burn mark left by an early, highly classified laser aiming device later adopted as the PEQ15A, based on technology adapted from UFO's stored at Area 51. (confirmed by John Lear)

The early versions had the undesirable side effect of cooking the target from the inside-out before the target could be shot. That side effect is much like the cousin of the PEQ unit, the microwave oven. (Confirmed by Irwin Corey)

In the conspiracy to frame poor Lee, he was encouraged to bring his rifle to work so he could fire celebratory gunfire out the window at the TSBD to celebrate JFK's arrival in Dallas. (Confirmed by Oliver Stone)

At the moment that Lee fired his Carcano out the window on the sixth floor, not even aiming at anyone, he got excited and was too carried away to notice that people didn't understand he was happy firing, not mad firing. (confirmed by many witnesses)

While that was happening, Richard Nixon, Bebe Rebozo, Lyndon Johnson and Sonny Liston were on the roof of the Dal-Tex building with the PEQ. The early unit was extremely heavy, and it had to be held by Sonny. Nixon and Rebozo worked the hand-crank for power and the unit was aimed and fired by Johnson. (Confirmed by Sonny Liston in his autobiography, I ain't got no dog-proof ass.)

When JFK felt the first burn of the highpowered laser he thought his tie was too tight and went to loosen it, but at that moment Sonny got a good look at Jackie and got distracted and moved a bit, causing Johnson to lose his sight picture and the laser hit JFK square in the head. It only took a fraction of a second for his head to pop like a ripe melon. The explosion was so vicious that one of the filings in his tooth popped out and went right through Connally. (Confirmed by autopsy expert, Dr. Bombay)

When poor Lee saw that, he thought he might be in trouble, so he hid his rifle and decided to go home. (Confirmed by lunchroom lady)

Meanwhile, for the four men on the Dal-Tex roof, it was mission accomplished. Nixon ended that JFK Punk, Rebozo had blackmail material on Nixon and Johnson. Johnson was going to be the President, and now that Jackie was single...Sonny asked Johnson if he could take a few years off from paying his federal taxes. Johnson called him the N word and told him to carry the PEQ. Sonny kicked Rebozo in the nuts. (Liston, I ain't got no dog proof ass)

Lee was confused. All he ever wanted was to make happy noise in honor of his President, but all these people were screaming, crying, sirens. He thought there must really be something wrong, and he decided to go back to his place and get his Smith & Wesson revolver...just in case. (Lunchroom lady, psychic communication 1)

After he retrieved his handgun, he was walking down the street when somebody who was probably pretending to be a cop tried to stop him. Lee was an American who knew his rights, so when the maybe fake cop told him to stop, he kept going. Then when the cop yelled at him he stopped, but he could tell the maybe fake cop was nervous, and real cops shouldn't be nervous, so he shot him. (Lunchroom lady, psychic communication 2)

Lee thought it might be a good time to take in a movie. Being a big Audie Murphy fan, he noticed that War is Hell was playing and slipped in to watch. (Lunchroom lady, psychic communication 3)

The next thing he knew, and he was only watching a movie, what could be wrong with watching a movie? a bunch of cops showed up and came after him! He tried to show them that he was carrying a gun like one of the good guys, but they didn't seem to like that. (Lunchroom lady, psychic communication 4)

After that he got roughed up, locked up, nobody seemed to like him, and just like that a little fat guy shot him for no reason! How's that fair?

XXXXXXXXXXXX

OK, that's it. Forget all the other speculation. That's the true tale and since none of you can prove me wrong that's what really happened.

XXXXXXXXXXXXX

Back to reality.

The only folks that took a worse beating than MJ has in this thread this week is the Warriors in the first half tonight.

The Warriors have a better chance for making a comeback.

 

[OKBob]

The large head wound could be tangential.

Is that so, doctor? Then please explain how this supposition of yours overcomes Dr. Finck's observation that the outer table of the blasted fragments showed beveling, leading him to conclude that the large wound was an exit wound resulting from a perforating (not a tangential) missile.

 

[Axxman300]

I simply can't believe that I've missed this all these years!

After examining the various photos and drawings and a review of my own extensive archives, I've come to the conclusion ...

What if JFK actually HAD NO BRAIN?

Has anybody accounted for the brains of Oswald or Tippet?

What if the real cover-up is that JFK was a Cylon, and Tippet was killed so they could substitute his brain at the President's autopsy. Think about it, Finck is late because the guard delayed him at the gate, what if it was just to buy time to get the fake brain into the O.R.? Then they just fly it back to Dallas where it is buried with Tippet and the world is none the wiser?

That laser would be silent, but we know Oswald fired three shots...what if he was shooting at those guys on the roof of the Dal-Tex building? That would account for not finding two of the bullets, and all they had to do was plant the magic bullet at Parkland later.

You are a genius, write a book and retire.

 

[Axxman300]

Seriously, unless JFK was shot at on an earlier date with a smaller caliber weapon, the only head wound is from the 6.5x52mm.

 

[Axxman300]

In case you were wondering, yes "Tracking Oswald" was pulled from the History Channel line-up until further notice.

Must not be enough ancient aliens or knife making.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

I've presented my arguments, and a lot if not most people would consider them proof.

@MicahJava: Can you name one person who has been persuaded by your arguments?

@ISF: Are there any lurkers here who consider MJ's arguments to be proof?

 

[HSienzant]

I simply can't believe that I've missed this all these years!

After examining the various photos and drawings and a review of my own extensive archives, I've come to the conclusion that not only is The Great American Lee Harvey Oswald innocent, The "red spot" on JFK's head wasn't a impact wound and JFK was not killed by gunfire.

It is the burn mark left by an early, highly classified laser aiming device later adopted as the PEQ15A, based on technology adapted from UFO's stored at Area 51. (confirmed by John Lear)...[remainder of post deleted]

Truth is stranger than fiction. Your parody of real-life conspiracy postings aren't much different than some from the CT people I've come across over the years.



Hank

 

[HSienzant]

I'm pretty sure your idea violates basic laws of volume and space

Not my idea. I quoted two of the autopsy doctors. Show me why they are untrustworthy now, after you've been quoting them for a month or more.

and is generally an unprofessional way to go about things.

Sorry, unlike some people here apparently, I'm not getting paid to post. So if my posting was amateurish, please cut me some slack.

The human scalp doesn't stretch like that.

Straw man. I mentioned stretching the scalp not at all. You're either misunderstanding my point or pretending to misunderstand my point merely to delay the inevitable.

But if you don't believe me, go to the longer testimonies by Humes, Boswell, and Finck through the years. Search for words like "scalp", "reflect", "skull", "brain".

Shifting the burden of proof once more. You're supposed to be supporting your claims with this supposed evidence. I'm not here to support your theories. And I don't take homework assignments from conspiracy theorists.

They describe in plain English how they reflected the scalp to get to the skull to get to the brain. It was simply a modified version of a normal brain removal procedure like this:

[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/FosDjAb.jpg[/qimg]

Give Kennedy's brain some room to breath, man.

#LetTheBrainBreath

The photos of the head on the autopsy table show exactly why that normal procedure wasn't necessary. It's not often that a deceased person is missing the upper half of their head along with extensive fragmenting of the remainder of the skull. Slicing the scalp was sufficient, according to Finck, to allow the brain to be removed.

You provided the words of Finck that explained what was done at the autopsy. Did you forget already?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=11876344&postcount=357

What kind of switcheroo is this?

You quoted Finck when you thought his words supported your theory. Now he's suddenly unreliable when you understand his words don't support you?

Finck always denied the cowlick entry theory, in both it's interpretations of the X-rays and the photographs.

Not always. There's that early statement of Finck's from January of 1965 you quoted. Did you forget it already?

... "The autopsy had been in progress for thirty minutes when I arrived. Cdr Humes told me that he only had to prolong the lacerations of the scalp before removing the brain. No sawing of the skull was necessary."
...
I examined the wounds. The scalp of the back of the head showed a small laceration, 15 X 6 mm. Corresponding to this lesion, I found a through-and-through wound of the occipital bone, with a crater visible from the inside of the cranial cavity. This bone wound showed no crater when viewed from outside the skull. On the basis of this pattern of the occipital bone perforation, I stated that the wound in the back of the head was an entrance."

Not only does he explain how the brain was removed without the normal procedure being necessary, he locates the bullet entry wound precisely underneath the laceration you have been calling 'the red spot' (like it was on Jupiter or something).

Tell us why Finck's recollections from 15 or 33 years after the event take precedence over the words above, which, as you noted, took place only 14 months after the autopsy. Do you think his recollection improved in the intervening decades?

Hank

 

[HSienzant]

I've presented my arguments, and a lot if not most people would consider them proof.

Do tell us how you determined that. Did you take a poll of most people, or merely a representative sample?

Or did you just make it up in your own head?

Your assertions and opinions are not evidence of anything, and never will be you. You are once again confusing your own opinion with evidence.

Your opinion of other people's opinion of your assertions doesn't rise to the level of proof. And yet, that's all you offer here.

Hank

 

[BStrong]

Truth is stranger than fiction. Your parody of real-life conspiracy postings aren't much different than some from the CT people I've come across over the years.



Hank

I must admit that one phrase I used came from James Ellroy.

In The Cold Six Thousand, Sonny Liston is asked by a reporter why he doesn't march to support Civil Rights.

Liston:

"Because I ain't got no dog proof ass."

 

[BStrong]

Do tell us how you determined that. Did you take a poll of most people, or merely a representative sample?

Or did you just make it up in your own head?

Your assertions and opinions are not evidence of anything, and never will be you. You are once again confusing your own opinion with evidence.

Your opinion of other people's opinion of your assertions doesn't rise to the level of proof. And yet, that's all you offer here.

Hank

He's the CTist version of Nixon. In his mind he has the support of the Silent Majority.

The issue he's pimping is a perfect example of CTist tactics. Ignore the context and totality of the physical evidence, forensic evidence, to focus on what amounts to a difference of opinion, some clearly coming from second hand sources.

The only thing that one-note Johnny has proved recently is that delusions of grandeur are in play (Miles? seriously?) and there is a difference of opinion about the location of the headwound, some of it from sources not involved at the actual autopsy.

 

[BStrong]

@MicahJava: Can you name one person who has been persuaded by your arguments?

@ISF: Are there any lurkers here who consider MJ's arguments to be proof?

I'm pretty sure D.B. Cooper and Judge Crater are big fans.

 

[BStrong]

What if JFK actually HAD NO BRAIN?

Has anybody accounted for the brains of Oswald or Tippet?

What if the real cover-up is that JFK was a Cylon, and Tippet was killed so they could substitute his brain at the President's autopsy. Think about it, Finck is late because the guard delayed him at the gate, what if it was just to buy time to get the fake brain into the O.R.? Then they just fly it back to Dallas where it is buried with Tippet and the world is none the wiser?

That laser would be silent, but we know Oswald fired three shots...what if he was shooting at those guys on the roof of the Dal-Tex building? That would account for not finding two of the bullets, and all they had to do was plant the magic bullet at Parkland later.

You are a genius, write a book and retire.

I've got to re-work my theory to take that into account! I didn't think of that!

(A phrase you will never hear or read from a CTist.)

 

[MicahJava]

Hank, the doctors did not just widen the scalp opening and stick their hands in, with pieces of skull stuck to the scalp, and somehow pull the entire brain out like that. Now you're like taking little out-of-context bits to try and say something that probably isn't even physically possible.

You have to reflect (peel back) the scalp before you start working on the skull, and that's exactly what the doctors did. With the nature of the gunshot wound, and the incentive to preserve Kennedy's face, they may have peeled it back a little differently, maybe in a different direction like in the occipital interpretation of the skull photographs, but the basic idea behind the procedure was still in place. The autopsy doctors and participants made that clear. I don't feel like quoting every single recorded oral history that makes that obvious. The skull photographs show the scalp reflected back to expose the skull cavity (this photo was taken after the brain had already been removed), whether it be over his eyes like the official HSCA interpretation, or reflected to the left to expose the occiput like in other interpretations.

 

[HSienzant]

Hank, the doctors did not just widen the scalp opening and stick their hands in, with pieces of skull stuck to the scalp, and somehow pull the entire brain out like that. Now you're like taking little out-of-context bits to try and say something that probably isn't even physically possible.

You have to reflect (peel back) the scalp before you start working on the skull, and that's exactly what the doctors did. With the nature of the gunshot wound, and the incentive to preserve Kennedy's face, they may have peeled it back a little differently, maybe in a different direction like in the occipital interpretation of the skull photographs, but the basic idea behind the procedure was still in place. The autopsy doctors and participants made that clear. I don't feel like quoting every single recorded oral history that makes that obvious. The skull photographs show the scalp reflected back to expose the skull cavity (this photo was taken after the brain had already been removed), whether it be over his eyes like the official HSCA interpretation, or reflected to the left to expose the occiput like in other interpretations.

What did Finck say Humes told him when he arrived at the autopsy? Tell us.

Hank

 

[MicahJava]

Another note on the official skull photographs: According to two experts, they may show a portion of the torso skin, probably already separated from the autopsy's Y-incision, and even a nipple.

This would be the upper left corner of this view:

NSFW - autopsy photo

From radiologist David Mantik:

"It is strange that Thomas should be so certain that this is not a posterior view, despite never viewing this photo at NARA. I have not only done so, but have viewed it repeatedly in stereo. The upper left hand corner cannot be appreciated in reproductions, but it is highly relevant. In that corner, part of the abdomen is visible: the subcutaneous fat is seen folded out (as it was during the autopsy) and even a nipple is visible. Until the recent review by the ARRB, I was the only observer to note these features. Now, however, I am not alone: one of the ARRB experts, Robert Kirschner (a forensic pathologist, no less), saw the same anatomy in this corner of the photo. (See my Dallas lecture, slide 58.) Those specific anatomic landmarks in that corner can mean only one thing: this is a posterior view of the skull."

https://kennedysandking.com/john-f-kennedy-reviews/thomas-donald-byron-hear-no-evil-social-constructivism-and-the-forensic-evidence-in-the-kennedy-assassination-two-reviews-2-part-1

David Mantik's 11/21/2009 presentation slides: http://assassinationscience.com/JFK_Skull_X-rays.htm

From ARRB staff report of observations and opinions of forensic pathologist Dr. Robert H. Kirschner:

"(7) Photographsof ARRB "View 7," (#s 17, 18, 44, and 45) could not be oriented or identified with any precision. Dr. Kirschner did say that he could not visualize this photograph as being the rear of the head, and that the curvature of the exterior surface of the skull in the photo could represent frontal bone, but that he could not be sure. The "ripples" inside the cranial cavity were interpreted as probably being the base of the skull. The notch in the photograph was opined to be too large to be an entrance wound; it was further observed to exhibit external beveling. However, because of the lack of clearly identifiable anatomic landmarks, this photograph ultimately could not be definitely oriented. The "yellow spot" in the color photos near the skull was thought to be muscle and fat which had possibly been exposed by the reflection of skin pulled back as a result of the Y-incision during the autopsy. The artifact in the photograph which appears to be made of glass was tentatively identified by Dr. Kirschner as a formaldehyde bottle."

Obviously we don't have access to the high-quality color prints of the skull photographs with a stereoscopic viewer, but you can see what may be the "nipple" on the upper left corner, with what may be hair faintly visible.

(Lower left corner in this rotation):

NSFW - autopsy photo

 

[HSienzant]

Another note on the official skull photographs: According to two experts, they may show a portion of the torso skin, probably already separated from the autopsy's Y-incision, and even a nipple.

Yada Yada

CT 101: When all else fails, change the subject.

What did Finck say Humes told him about the autopsy to the point where Finck joined the autopsy team?

 

[MicahJava]

CT 101: When all else fails, change the subject.

What did Finck say Humes told him about the autopsy to the point where Finck joined the autopsy team?

"That doesn't mean what you think it means"

-Finck

Seriously, my journey arguing in this thread has been a homework assignment. My easy assignment is to search the keywords in the statements from Humes et. al through the years. You do know that to "reflect" the scalp means to peel it all the way back, right? The skull photographs show the scalp reflected.

 

[abaddon]

"That doesn't mean what you think it means"

-Finck

Think about that.

Seriously, my journey arguing in this thread has been a homework assignment.

So you have been taking the mick up to now?

My easy assignment is to search the keywords in the statements from Humes et. al through the years. You do know that to "reflect" the scalp means to peel it all the way back, right? The skull photographs show the scalp reflected.

I am now wondering whose homework. I have not had obligatory homework since I was a child. Adults do not get homework. Work from home? sure. But that is a different thing. That you even talk about "homework" is revealing. As a big bad "grown up" nobody gives me or anyone else "homework".

 

[OKBob]

My question is pending, MJ: Please explain how your speculation regarding a tangential bullet wound to the right temporal-parietal portion of JFK's skull overcomes Dr. Finck's observation that the outer table of the blasted fragments of that wound showed beveling, leading him to conclude that the large wound was an exit wound resulting from a perforating (not a tangential) missile.