Steven Avery: Making of a Murderer

[Samzilla]

So, now what?

What is the next step in the process, and what will -or might- the outcome be?

Prosecution has 30 days to respond, I believe.

 

[marplots]

So, now what?

What is the next step in the process, and what will -or might- the outcome be?

Next step? The appeal gets denied.

 

[Samson]

Next step? The appeal gets denied.

This is getting far less frequent

From Bruce Fisher on IA

"According to the National Registry of Exonerations, courts in the United States overturned 165 wrongful convictions in 2016, which broke 2015’s record of 149 corrected wrongful convictions. It is promising to see that the numbers continue to be on the rise. If you look at data over the past 25 years, we are now seeing substantial progress.

Over the past quarter century, America has incarcerated more people than any civilized nation on earth. A disturbing number of those incarcerations have been wrongful convictions. Hundreds of exonerations can be credited to advanced DNA technology. But research on topics like, bite mark evidence, fire investigation technology, and shaken baby syndrome, have all played a significant role as well. The ability to distribute information via the internet has also proven to be an invaluable resource when fighting wrongful convictions.

Exoneration statistics show that we are on the right track, but we have a long way to go. We need to correct the mistakes we have made, all while working to reforming the system which allowed those mistakes to occur in the first place. Sadly, the wrongful conviction problem is far more pervasive than most people realize, and even with increased interest, most cases continue to lack the attention they warrant. Many innocent people remain in prison. They need others to be their voice. They need you. Please join us in the fight to free the innocent."

And this is not an appeal. It is true the going is tough at first direct appeal against a murder conviction.

 

[JREF2010]

the affidavits are interesting ..from the Hoodlatch-expert

In other words in almost three-quarters (73%) of the hood opening trials, no measurable
DNA was left behind by the individual who opened the hood. Put another way, even
when DNA was left on the hood latch after opening the hood, the amount of DNA
recovered was between twenty (20) and thirty-five (35) times less than that recovered
from the item identified as MO5-2467 #ID. To put it yet another way, the Madison
laboratory recovered from six (6) to seven (7) times more DNA than all of the DNA
recovered from all of the fifteen (15) hood openings, combined.
30. Given the experimental results, both the body fluid detection data and the DNA
recovery data from the hood latch opening trials, the question of what sample MOS-2467
#ID really might be, becomes a subject for investigation.

very similar to the Key......too much DNA! lol the "farmers" arent very good at their job it seems.

who was rubbing items with the toothbrush? we might never know.

 

[Samson]

the affidavits are interesting ..from the Hoodlatch-expert

In other words in almost three-quarters (73%) of the hood opening trials, no measurable
DNA was left behind by the individual who opened the hood. Put another way, even
when DNA was left on the hood latch after opening the hood, the amount of DNA
recovered was between twenty (20) and thirty-five (35) times less than that recovered
from the item identified as MO5-2467 #ID. To put it yet another way, the Madison
laboratory recovered from six (6) to seven (7) times more DNA than all of the DNA
recovered from all of the fifteen (15) hood openings, combined.
30. Given the experimental results, both the body fluid detection data and the DNA
recovery data from the hood latch opening trials, the question of what sample MOS-2467
#ID really might be, becomes a subject for investigation.

very similar to the Key......too much DNA! lol the "farmers" arent very good at their job it seems.

who was rubbing items with the toothbrush? we might never know.

Too much egg in the omelette, too much fast fertilizer on the seedlings.

Since everything was planted, it will interesting to see the county fight back.

I like that toothbrush idea, maybe it was used to paint the blood in the rav4 after the key and hoodlatch were completed.

 

[DragonLady]

Next step? The appeal gets denied.

Do they have to state their reasons for denying it?

 

[marplots]

Do they have to state their reasons for denying it?

Yes. However, I was being a bit glib in that first response. The actual next step is for the prosecution to file motions - in essence, a rebuttal of Zellner's motion. Then both sides get to argue all of it in front of the appeals court. (Even that is a bit of a streamlined version, but should suffice.)

 

[DragonLady]

Yes. However, I was being a bit glib in that first response. The actual next step is for the prosecution to file motions - in essence, a rebuttal of Zellner's motion. Then both sides get to argue all of it in front of the appeals court. (Even that is a bit of a streamlined version, but should suffice.)

Okay; thanks.

I've said all along I think the SA blood in her car is the most damning bit of evidence, even if everything else was tampered with.

I'll be curious to hear what the prosecutors say about it now.

 

[marplots]

Okay; thanks.

I've said all along I think the SA blood in her car is the most damning bit of evidence, even if everything else was tampered with.

I'll be curious to hear what the prosecutors say about it now.

We can all play along if we have a copy of Zellner's motion to keep us on track.

It's not a bad skeptical exercise - so long as we understand the actual issue isn't whether or not SA is innocent, but whether he got a fair shake from his previous attorney.

 

[Samson]

Okay; thanks.

I've said all along I think the SA blood in her car is the most damning bit of evidence, even if everything else was tampered with.

I'll be curious to hear what the prosecutors say about it now.

That is indeed the most interesting item, the vial looked home for all money but has been abandoned. Jerry Buting explains how he discovered it in his book, and the EDTA testing. It appears the EDTA work may have been legitimate, so Ken Kratz was entitled to believe that Avery had bled in her car.

However, no crime reconstruction makes the remotest sense of the car being driven from the wrecking yard with Avery inside, nor does the obvious conclusion she bled from her head gun shot wounds in the back of the car.
Clearly the vehicle became her coffin for a while, and nothing gets close to Steve Avery working in the phone call to Jodi and the fire pit bones magically appearing in his fire pit.

So the obvious source of blood becomes the trailer. Was it dried blood reconstituted with water? Does this work?
We can all vamp it up and do our own little experiment.

 

[DragonLady]

Was it dried blood reconstituted with water? Does this work?

I've been wondering that, too.

If someone just wiped it up with something like Q-tips, then dipped them into water, would it rehydrate to a state that could be dripped out like ink or paint? If so, that could expain it.

Ballsy move, though, to break into someone's trailer to look for something to use; and then to find something so serendipitous(?) and think on his feet of a way to use it.

Strange, though, that we've not heard about the sudden blood cleanup before. That would be so strange if it happened to me I'd be telling everyone about it. "My door was jimmied open, and some blood I left in the sink was cleaned up. Who? Why? WTF???"

 

[JREF2010]

I dont see the theory as precise and had some trouble following why the defense included only one option. For example, why does the sink-blood have to be some separate event by a person in particular?

I kind of see the trailer and all the evidence to grab and steal for planting and framing an open garage sale like horrific mess because no one made it a real crime scene soon enough. No log of who came in and left and with what. Why was Lenk and Colbrun in the trailer over and over or even allowed in once?
Werent all the other detectives and police tromping through the trailer enough?
Its like the Italy/Kercher case where they tromped all over the blood and didnt change gloves etc.. and no one kept a logbook of the items etc..

The toothbrush is gone/taken, add the MCSD (Colburn/Lenk and many others RH?) tromping through the tiny trailer many times while what appears to be young cavemen like Calumet cops babysitting Colburn (who didnt see any aliens he says on the stand) and toss that all into the Manitowoc stew of discontent and a $36 mill lawsuit in progress....

Its just too bad for the police and investigators who try to do good work that they have the Colburns/Lenks and other goobers to deal with...geez.

I wonder what Sandra Morris thinks about all this? wow..

 

[JREF2010]

Okay; thanks.

I've said all along I think the SA blood in her car is the most damning bit of evidence, even if everything else was tampered with.

I'll be curious to hear what the prosecutors say about it now.

you're probably right, there is some reason Zellner bought a SUV which aligns to it being her biggest focus too.

as someone said the whole cell phone tower thing was not mentioned, the RC14 age blood test not mentioned.

I just read the affidavit of the SUV tests in her SUV last night. today some poster mentioned if she could get a evidentiary trial then she could take her own samples from the TH SUV instead of using the splits from MCSD/Calumet samples.

theres so much missed, the broken headlamp wasnt tested, the fingerprints and a lot of evidence probably disappeared like the un-edited flyover video etc... the RH hand cuts and the affidavit of the pro-expert was a huge missed elephant in the room. add that ScottB blurts out RH name as a suspect might be a oil well of "theorys and peculiar comments".

what a case, Hollywood couldnt write one so insane.
locked up twice, framed? police inbred hillbilly hate, Capital Hill phot ops and a Avery Phony Bill for jumping to conclusions ignored as its passed, the Netflix massive viewing audience never before done...and too many more twists and turns to mention.

 

[JREF2010]

The RH thing is new to me the very creepy finger-scrapes on his hand mentioned by the professional and seen in the evidence pictures.

His testimony to Buting is odd. RH says he still came to his ex-Gf's house "once a week".but in his testimony he mentions maybe not seeing her the three times a week he might stop over, and other weeks maybe be there 3 days.

http://www.stevenaverycase.org/wp-c...Trial-Transcript-Day-2-2007Feb13.pdf#page=173

He seems to have not moved on and I'll guess unaware his best friend was having sexual relationship with her and the married guy in short RH was clueless.

He never once mentions Theresa came to my place to see me....it was a one -sided , non-invited visit. He constantly came to her home which shows the weaker side of the relationship.

He also mentions in his testimony he knew everything about her and they were very open, yet he didnt know about the buddy having sex with her and the married guy.
Or he knew and lied on the stand. I would guess he didnt know and no one told him they were having sex with his ex-gf he hadnt moved on from.

imagine Weigart and Factbender talking to Ryan and his hands having the scrapes of murder right in front of their nose. could be?

 

[DragonLady]

I dont see the theory as precise and had some trouble following why the defense included only one option. For example, why does the sink-blood have to be some separate event by a person in particular?

It troubles me.

I can only think of one reason SA would bleed into the sink: because he was going to wash his hands. If he washed his hands, why didn't he wash away the blood? I realize he's a guy living alone -girlfriend in jail, no need to be too fastidious, but leaving blood while the sink is running just seems unlikely.

I'm just not sure I buy it. I suspect if someone testified "I washed my hands, but still left blood in the sink." I'd be disinclined to believe it.

 

[Samzilla]

you're probably right, there is some reason Zellner bought a SUV which aligns to it being her biggest focus too.

as someone said the whole cell phone tower thing was not mentioned, the RC14 age blood test not mentioned.

I just read the affidavit of the SUV tests in her SUV last night. today some poster mentioned if she could get a evidentiary trial then she could take her own samples from the TH SUV instead of using the splits from MCSD/Calumet samples.

theres so much missed, the broken headlamp wasnt tested, the fingerprints and a lot of evidence probably disappeared like the un-edited flyover video etc... the RH hand cuts and the affidavit of the pro-expert was a huge missed elephant in the room. add that ScottB blurts out RH name as a suspect might be a oil well of "theorys and peculiar comments".

what a case, Hollywood couldnt write one so insane.
locked up twice, framed? police inbred hillbilly hate, Capital Hill phot ops and a Avery Phony Bill for jumping to conclusions ignored as its passed, the Netflix massive viewing audience never before done...and too many more twists and turns to mention.

The radio-carbon blood test (and DNA methylation test) is mentioned in a footnote on page 50. There was insufficient quantity to run the test.

 

[DragonLady]

So far as "too much DNA":

Does anyone know if there would be more DNA deposited by someone who is on-edge, hyped up and nervous from just having committed a murder if compared to someone who is just calmly going about daily life?

 

[wasapi]

So far as "too much DNA":

Does anyone know if there would be more DNA deposited by someone who is on-edge, hyped up and nervous from just having committed a murder if compared to someone who is just calmly going about daily life?

What an interesting question. Hopefully someone will come along and explain the answer. Just off the top of my head I'm going to guess that it is possible to detect the difference in the DNA, at least in terms of stress levels?

 

[Samson]

It troubles me.

I can only think of one reason SA would bleed into the sink: because he was going to wash his hands. If he washed his hands, why didn't he wash away the blood? I realize he's a guy living alone -girlfriend in jail, no need to be too fastidious, but leaving blood while the sink is running just seems unlikely.

I'm just not sure I buy it. I suspect if someone testified "I washed my hands, but still left blood in the sink." I'd be disinclined to believe it.

There is a reason the blood is there, maybe it is still the vial, but access and testing are problems. Zellner has introduced an idea that can't be disproven, so can be accommodated with the preponderance of evidence.
For example, if Steve bled in the car, it is the only mistake he made.
We can rule out that he planted bones in his own fire pit, that he planted his own dna on the key and hoodlatch. These aspects must have involved police bolstering their case. There is no point in any other party planting evidence as they were logically uninvolved, nothing to hide.
He would need to have burned the body in the quarry and Lenk/Colborn find bones and move them. But of course why would they? They already had his blood in the car, and he was the last to see her alive. There would be other evidence that he had done all this, there would be a complete case for any jury.

No, the blood in the car resolves into planted evidence, nothing else fits, and we have two sources of blood to consider.
Certainly in pulling the trailer to pieces, some dried blood from that thumb bleed could easily be found.

 

[JREF2010]

It troubles me.

I can only think of one reason SA would bleed into the sink: because he was going to wash his hands. If he washed his hands, why didn't he wash away the blood? I realize he's a guy living alone -girlfriend in jail, no need to be too fastidious, but leaving blood while the sink is running just seems unlikely.

I'm just not sure I buy it. I suspect if someone testified "I washed my hands, but still left blood in the sink." I'd be disinclined to believe it.

that made me laugh as Ive seen so much "pigville" around my place with the young men and kids and leaving everything everywhere and filth can be very common in a evidence topic. Looking at Steves trailer I might guess the sink was cleaned once every 3 months maybe...but who knows. It just doesnt seem like cleanliness was a priority. It doesnt surprise me if his blood and anything, sat in the sink for months. just adding to the perception of cleaning a sink..lol

The trailer and access to the sink-blood (also the car he bled in) seems insane to think about.

Ive said it before it shocks me how many tromped through Steves Trailer in total? 5, 15, 25 police and search-party folk? How many times? They tore the place apart maybe they all had access to the blood in the sink.

The police are seen on film bumbling around in the trailer, touching stuff, grabbing it, taking it and not logging it...its in the MAM when Jodi comes out and STeves arrested already. It look like a tornado hit it, a common sloppy crime scene in a lot of these cases it seems.

The one piece I read was Steve ran in to get a fast bandaid (made from masking tape) and his brother was waiting on him. Thats how the blood got there, the wound broke open and he went into the trailer slapped some tape on the cut....Ive done that many times too, I'll use scotch tape or anything available. Often a napkin and scotch tape for hand cuts. Thats pretty common as many dont have nice bandaids around. I dont buy sotre bought bandaids often.