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Steven Avery: Making of a Murderer

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yeah the vial seems to be swapped with the blood drops in the sink and aligns with Zellners tweet previously. (right about planting, not correct in how) in addition to the Toothbrush for the Key!

the Bullet SEM was interesting too. It was all about bone residue missing and if so who planted the victims DNA on the bullet.


Exhibit 15, ,r 31).
362.For the purposes of Dr. Reich's experiment, Mr. Avery held the exemplar sub-key in his
hand for 12 minutes. The exemplar sub-key was then transported to Dr. Reich's lab,
where it was swabbed. The exemplar sub-key, which Mr. Avery was touching for 12
minutes, yielded ten times less DNA than what the WSCL extracted from the Toyota subkey,
Item C. Therefore, Dr. Reich has concluded that Mr. Avery did not deposit his DNA
on the sub-key recovered from his bedroom.
3 63. Mr. A very recalls that the law enforcement photos taken of bathroom show that his
toothbrush had been taken from the bathroom.
364. Dr. Reich has offered the opinion that, to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty, Mr.
Avery's DNA on the Toyota sub-key, Item C, was planted frorn a DNA-rich source, such
as Mr. Avery's toothbrush. (Affidavit of Dr. Reich, P-C Group Exhibit 15, ,r 37)
 
JREF2010 said:
yeah the vial seems to be swapped with the blood drops in the sink and aligns with Zellners tweet previously. (right about planting, not correct in how) in addition to the Toothbrush for the Key!

the Bullet SEM was interesting too. It was all about bone residue missing and if so who planted the victims DNA on the bullet.


Exhibit 15, ,r 31).
362.For the purposes of Dr. Reich's experiment, Mr. Avery held the exemplar sub-key in his
hand for 12 minutes. The exemplar sub-key was then transported to Dr. Reich's lab,
where it was swabbed. The exemplar sub-key, which Mr. Avery was touching for 12
minutes, yielded ten times less DNA than what the WSCL extracted from the Toyota subkey,
Item C. Therefore, Dr. Reich has concluded that Mr. Avery did not deposit his DNA
on the sub-key recovered from his bedroom.
3 63. Mr. A very recalls that the law enforcement photos taken of bathroom show that his
toothbrush had been taken from the bathroom.
364. Dr. Reich has offered the opinion that, to a reasonable degree of scientific certainty, Mr.
Avery's DNA on the Toyota sub-key, Item C, was planted frorn a DNA-rich source, such
as Mr. Avery's toothbrush. (Affidavit of Dr. Reich, P-C Group Exhibit 15, ,r 37)
Click to expand...

Wow, this is amazing news.
 
Did you read the 220 page doc? Its a good read.

The groin swab = planted hood latch...isnt that alone enough to toss the Sweaty Prosecutors case in the garbage where it belongs? It proves planted evidence, the court system shouldnt require more than one occurrence of planted evidence.

The blood plant was enough too, the dripping blood goes into the carpet makes sense.
The blood on the carpet planted is only on the surface = planted.
Makes sense.

The bullet with no bone residue = failed, garbage evidence (adding TH DNA= more planted evidence)


What does anyone think of the RH being targeted?
Is this important for Steves case or just helping the police find the real killer?
Im not a lawyer so I dont understand the assumption and clues added toward RH being the killer. Too bad the courts didnt allow DNA testing of the broken headlight that might have been the DNA of the killer. I wonder if RH is lawyering up?

Jealous Angry ExControl Freak boyfriend who never moved on ..hmm?
His best friend banging away on his ex, then some married man too...did it set off the Ex?
 
I haven't had a chance to read any of it yet, as I just returned from a crazy busy evening. I stopped by a couple reddits to see how they were assessing the document. On the reddit that is generally full of SA supporters almost all of the posters are celebrating this slam dunk. On the reddit that is generally full of people who believe that SA is guilty almost all of the posters are talking about amazingly crappy, pathetic and full of nothing, this submission is. I haven't read a word of it yet, so I can't say.
 
Here is a strange question. . .Let us assume that Steve Avery was actually guilty of her murder but also assume that all of the evidence was a frame of him, what do you think should be done?
 
Desert Fox said:
Here is a strange question. . .Let us assume that Steve Avery was actually guilty of her murder but also assume that all of the evidence was a frame of him, what do you think should be done?
Click to expand...

The question is strange because the first part of it presumes perfect knowledge can be obtained, which it can't. The best we can reasonably expect is that we might be persuaded of a certain person's culpability beyond a reasonable doubt. If all the evidence presented to that effect turns out to be the result of a frame-up, that obviously isn't achieved. So on what basis would I be presented with a dilemma here?
 
Wayward son said:
I haven't had a chance to read any of it yet, as I just returned from a crazy busy evening. I stopped by a couple reddits to see how they were assessing the document. On the reddit that is generally full of SA supporters almost all of the posters are celebrating this slam dunk. On the reddit that is generally full of people who believe that SA is guilty almost all of the posters are talking about amazingly crappy, pathetic and full of nothing, this submission is. I haven't read a word of it yet, so I can't say.
Click to expand...
If aviation operated the same way as criminal justice there would be lively debates amongst passengers whether the plane was going to land safely or everyone was doomed to perish. :rolleyes:
 
Sergei Walankov said:
The question is strange because the first part of it presumes perfect knowledge can be obtained, which it can't. The best we can reasonably expect is that we might be persuaded of a certain person's culpability beyond a reasonable doubt. If all the evidence presented to that effect turns out to be the result of a frame-up, that obviously isn't achieved. So on what basis would I be presented with a dilemma here?
Click to expand...

It is meant as a thought experment on how if he is guilty and if the police framed him, which seems increasingly more likely, then the police did a horrid disservice to everything they should hold dear.
 
Are the news reporters flocking to RH and AC for a response?

The low level over-loyal foot cop trying to shine for the big dogs who always seem to let the bus run over the small-helpers.... wow

Wheres the meat though?

Im kind of feeling the "you say yes, I say no" thing is going on.

Pros Expert says this, the Defense expert says that...

the Buting and Stang said the hoodlatch was accidental by the investigator not changing gloves, Zellner exeprt says it was planted from the groin swab stolen by Weaslegart and SweatyKen claims it was sweaty sweat dna....
 
Desert Fox said:
It is meant as a thought experment on how if he is guilty and if the police framed him, which seems increasingly more likely, then the police did a horrid disservice to everything they should hold dear.
Click to expand...


If the evidence against him is fabricated, and that is the evidence upon which his conviction depends, then the state cannot prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, and he should walk.

That's the way our system is supposed to work, "... better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer ..."* and all that.

If someone supports our system of justice then that is one of the fundamental tenets they have to accept.

Not the, "Well, I never liked that bastard, and I think he was probably guilty, anyway. So let's convict him anyway, and anyhow he got off the last time 'cause of fancy lawyerin'. Plus, he's probably guilty of sumthin'. Lock 'im up.", approach to justice that seems to be popular among some circles.


[*: For purists and pedants. That's the Ben Franklin version of the quote.)
 
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theres still so much missing i think im kind of let down abit.

1) the fly over video in full...what happened to that? I though KZ was going to show the full version that proves the suv wasnt there.

2) RC14 dated blood was to be interesting

sure I think he should walk or get a new trial and all that but ...

Ive read the 220 3times now and its not clear to me how this system works.
Basically one side saying a scenario that profiles RH as the killer but theres no RH anywhere and because he came and went in the house and SUV he could slip out of anything. The roommate who was sexual relationship and the married guy might have more of a chance to help find the truth than anyone, but then is it just more he said/ryan said/ Sweaty Kraps said/ KZ said/ Buting said?

theorys and corrupt police and puppet judges?
 
I found this interesting in the motion theory that the murder happened at TH's place.

Mr. Hillegas' cell phone records show significant gaps during time periods in question.
On October 31, 2005, there was a six hour gap - a time frame in which there were
neither incoming nor outgoing calls - from 9:41 a.m. to 3:48 p.m. (Ryan Hillegas Phone
Records, P-C Exhibit 57). It is most likely that during this time frame, Ms. Halbach
departed the Avery property, departed the Zipperer property, and was killed after she
arrived home at approximately 3:40-3:50 p.m.

If I recall someone, the mom of the victim mentioned the garage door was open when she went to check on TH which wasnt normal. Anyone recall that?
Did anyone do searches of the garage and home?
Then he moved into her home with the best friend(lover of his girlfriend...ex..kind of? weird relationship RH had)

How many boyfriends keep coming around for years and their best friend is porking the female they supposedly broke up with but didnt really break up with?
 
JREF2010 said:
I found this interesting in the motion theory that the murder happened at TH's place.

Mr. Hillegas' cell phone records show significant gaps during time periods in question.
On October 31, 2005, there was a six hour gap - a time frame in which there were
neither incoming nor outgoing calls - from 9:41 a.m. to 3:48 p.m. (Ryan Hillegas Phone
Records, P-C Exhibit 57). It is most likely that during this time frame, Ms. Halbach
departed the Avery property, departed the Zipperer property, and was killed after she
arrived home at approximately 3:40-3:50 p.m.

If I recall someone, the mom of the victim mentioned the garage door was open when she went to check on TH which wasnt normal. Anyone recall that?
Did anyone do searches of the garage and home?
Then he moved into her home with the best friend(lover of his girlfriend...ex..kind of? weird relationship RH had)

How many boyfriends keep coming around for years and their best friend is porking the female they supposedly broke up with but didnt really break up with?
Click to expand...
The clues were there all along just like Agatha Christie.
I would have got RH if I hadn't worked out James Lenk.
Hang on, Charlie worked out James Lenk so I blame him for preventing me solving the crime. ;)
 
the Gov Attorney General already ignoring the document, the new evidence.
the obstinate system is sickening really they should be removed from office or worse.
I understand the real motive for the cover-up now is money.
The State and the Insurance Inc dont want to payout $100+million for two wrongful convictions and one thats made national headlines. Its not about Lenk and Colburn and Pagel losing their pension or the SweatyPervProsecutor and its definitively not about finding the real killer.

$36 million....$100million arbitrary values, but the motive is clear why the system suits refuse the truth...refuse to even look at the evidence. very sad and pathetic.

We confirmed AG and former prosecutors do not even have possession of 1000 pages of exhibits.Zellner
 
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JREF2010 said:
the Gov Attorney General already ignoring the document, the new evidence.
the obstinate system is sickening really they should be removed from office or worse.
I understand the real motive for the cover-up now is money.
The State and the Insurance Inc dont want to payout $100+million for two wrongful convictions and one thats made national headlines. Its not about Lenk and Colburn and Pagel losing their pension or the SweatyPervProsecutor and its definitively not about finding the real killer.

$36 million....$100million arbitrary values, but the motive is clear why the system suits refuse the truth...refuse to even look at the evidence. very sad and pathetic.

We confirmed AG and former prosecutors do not even have possession of 1000 pages of exhibits.Zellner
Click to expand...
JREF2010:
At least we can watch this train wreck because Zellner attacks with Buffett style budget.
My position will be permanent, Steve did not, could not, do any part of this weird crime.

Here are the stats from our local luminaries, who in fairness dont regard this as but a diversion from present life concerns


Steven and Brendan are both completely innocent. 3 9.38%
Steven and Brenden may both be guilty, but there is reasonable doubt. 14 43.75%
Steven is guilty, but reasonable doubt exists for Brendan. 4 12.50%
Brendan is guilty, but reasonable doubt exists for Steven. 0 0%
Steven and Brenden are both guilty beyond any reasonable doubt. 7 21.88%
On Planet X, Justice is coming, and She's pissed. 4
 
nice list of stats.

time to soak in the data.

The Key: proven the DNA is 10x's normal = DNA planted

The Bullet: no bone residue= did not go into victims head bone, DNA planted or just a "misread" by the AppeasingPoofyHair smirking Lab tech.

The SUV: hmmm?
The SUV blood: more reading needed?

I admit "the Killer' legal maneuver is the shock but isnt it pre-mature to setup a iron barred-cell for RH?

A big question I cant find the answer to has to do with the court system.
What and who will decide if the KZellner gets the Trial and how much does Shimel/Wisconsin AG have to do with anything?
What court will decide what and if a Trial is accepted which court will take this trial?

(and in the meantime hopefully a detective will find the mysterious white jeep that helped plant the SUV on the Avery property per the old man neighbor)
 
JREF2010 said:
nice list of stats.

time to soak in the data.

The Key: proven the DNA is 10x's normal = DNA planted

The Bullet: no bone residue= did not go into victims head bone, DNA planted or just a "misread" by the AppeasingPoofyHair smirking Lab tech.

The SUV: hmmm?
The SUV blood: more reading needed?

I admit "the Killer' legal maneuver is the shock but isnt it pre-mature to setup a iron barred-cell for RH?

A big question I cant find the answer to has to do with the court system.
What and who will decide if the KZellner gets the Trial and how much does Shimel/Wisconsin AG have to do with anything?
What court will decide what and if a Trial is accepted which court will take this trial?

(and in the meantime hopefully a detective will find the mysterious white jeep that helped plant the SUV on the Avery property per the old man neighbor)
Click to expand...
I thought I read in Zellner that Colborn's private vehicle helped Hillegas plant the car.
 
So, now what?

What is the next step in the process, and what will -or might- the outcome be?
 
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