FBI 9/11 Investigations

[paloalto]

I've read your posts on this subject, and completely aside from any discussion about your position on the pre-9/11 intelligence and the use of same.

From my pov as a retired LEO, your idea of what constitutes probable cause for arrest isn't based in reality, at least as it relates to pre-9/11 sop.

Basically, from federal LE agencies on down, unless there was an existing arrest warrant or a criminal offense was committed in an officer's presence you couldn't effect an arrest.

In cases where probable cause was questionable, including possible terrorist activity, you weren't going to get a warrant signed. Observation and intelligence gathering? even electronic surveillance warrants could be problematic without rock solid facts that someone felt strongly enough to take to a judge.

In my little corner of the universe (firearms forensics etc.) I can't tell you how many cases over the years I passed along to ATF involving violations of the National Firearms Act or the Gun Control Act of 1968.

They never took action in one single instance - cases where our agency had federal felony violation firearms in custody, they had no interest. If a local agency developed intell. of specific activities that agency honchos had an immediate interest in (Drugs, counterfeiting, certain activities by certain gangs) they might jump in if the planets were aligned, but like a DEA guy told me "You bring in a heroin trafficking case involving the Mexicans when the boss is looking at meth from the OMG's, (outlaw motorcycle gangs) you get in at the end of the line."

I'm not going to argue your talking points.

The only thing I'll say is that your perception of the ease of arresting individuals based on what your asserting isn't based in reality.

I posted what the head of the FAA stated in public testimony. And I have a hard time believing that if the FAA and the airlines thought certain individuals were a threat to commercial aircraft, that they would not have taken action to first block these people from getting on any commercial aircraft and then to have them arrested.

The horror story of all horror stories is that all of the FBI criminal investigations of al Qaeda terrorists found inside of the US were blocked or shut down by one single FBI unit, the FBI ITOS unit, after this unit and in fact many units and almost all of the managers at FBI HQ's had been given the EC by FBI Agent Dina Corsi detailing the many threats to the US that were coming in to the US in the spring and summer of 2001, from bin Laden and Kattahb.

After almost all of the mangers at FBI HQ's had been warned of a spectacular al Qaeda terrorist attack aimed at the US, they shut down all FBI criminal investigations of al Qaeda terrorists found inside of the US and even blocked the intelligence investigation of FBI Agent Robert Fuller.

These actions have never been explained in any way. We even now know that CIA officer Tom Wilshere, not only was directing FBI Agent Dina Corsi and her manager Rod Middleton as they shut down FBI Agent Steve Bongardt's criminal investigation of al Qaeda terrorists Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, but was keeping a close eye on the Moussaoui criminal investigation of FBI Agent Harry Samit, and even knew it was going no where due to FBI HQ's.

Why would people who clearly knew about this horrific al Qaeda terrorist attack that was just about to take place inside of the US that would cause mass US casualties, shut down the only criminal investigations of al Qaeda terrorists found inside of the US when they clearly knew that this would allow these attacks to take place?

The CIA and FBI have never answered this horrific question! Almost 3000 people paid with their lives for these actions at the FBI HQ's and the CIA!

 

[BStrong]

I posted what the head of the FAA stated in public testimony. And I have a hard time believing that if the FAA and the airlines thought certain individuals were a threat to commercial aircraft, that they would not have taken action to first block these people from getting on any commercial aircraft and then to have them arrested.

The horror story of all horror stories is that all of the FBI criminal investigations of al Qaeda terrorists found inside of the US were blocked or shut down by one single FBI unit, the FBI ITOS unit, after this unit and in fact many units and almost all of the managers at FBI HQ's had been given the EC by FBI Agent Dina Corsi detailing the many threats to the US that were coming in to the US in the spring and summer of 2001, from bin Laden and Kattahb.

After almost all of the mangers at FBI HQ's had been warned of a spectacular al Qaeda terrorist attack aimed at the US, they shut down all FBI criminal investigations of al Qaeda terrorists found inside of the US and even blocked the intelligence investigation of FBI Agent Robert Fuller.

These actions have never been explained in any way. We even now know that CIA officer Tom Wilshere, not only was directing FBI Agent Dina Corsi and her manager Rod Middleton as they shut down FBI Agent Steve Bongardt's criminal investigation of al Qaeda terrorists Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, but was keeping a close eye on the Moussaoui criminal investigation of FBI Agent Harry Samit, and even knew it was going no where due to FBI HQ's.

Why would people who clearly knew about this horrific al Qaeda terrorist attack that was just about to take place inside of the US that would cause mass US casualties, shut down the only criminal investigations of al Qaeda terrorists found inside of the US when they clearly knew that this would allow these attacks to take place?

The CIA and FBI have never answered this horrific question! Almost 3000 people paid with their lives for these actions at the FBI HQ's and the CIA!

Assuming facts not in evidence anywhere but in your imagination, but have at it.

Everybody needs a hobby.

 

[beachnut]

...

Why would people who clearly knew about this horrific al Qaeda terrorist attack that was just about to take place inside of the US that would cause mass US casualties, shut down the only criminal investigations of al Qaeda terrorists found inside of the US when they clearly knew that this would allow these attacks to take place? ...

No one knew what the attack was going to be; you make up BS.

They bought no explosives, they bought no guns, ... there was no way to know what 19 nuts for UBL would do, or when they would do it.

Which terrorists could you detain and put in jail before 9/11? Which ones? You NEVER told everyone the full story of how the BS you make up could stop 9/11. How will you stop your next car accident? Can you read minds? no

 

[Cosmic Yak]

Why would people who clearly knew about this horrific al Qaeda terrorist attack that was just about to take place inside of the US that would cause mass US casualties, shut down the only criminal investigations of al Qaeda terrorists found inside of the US when they clearly knew that this would allow these attacks to take place?

The CIA and FBI have never answered this horrific question! Almost 3000 people paid with their lives for these actions at the FBI HQ's and the CIA!

Well you're the fearless truthseeker. Why don't you tell us? What's your theory, and what evidence do you have to back it up?

 

[paloalto]

Well you're the fearless truthseeker. Why don't you tell us? What's your theory, and what evidence do you have to back it up?

I have already posted my evidence many times on this forum. Re-read my prior posts.


By the way, I am not a truthseeker, I have just posted the facts that have come out of the many investigations on 9/11.

Since I have already done this, I will ask you:

"Why don't you tell us? What's your theory, and what evidence do you have to back it up?"

And further explain the following:

Why did FBI Deputy Chief of the FBI ITOS unit, Tom Wilshere, know for over three weeks that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US, knew they were in the US only in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda terrorist attack that would kill many Americans, and then directed FBI Agent Dina Corsi and her boss Rod Middleton to shut down FBI Agent Steve Bongardt's criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi when he clearly knew this would allow this al Qaeda terrorist attack to take place, murdering many Americans.

The Director of the CIA, George Tenet, knew for three weeks prior to the attacks on 9/11, that Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US, knew they were in the US only in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda terrorist attack that would kill many Americans, and yet he claimed at the April 14, 2004 , 9/11 public hearing that he told no one about this information, not the FBI, not the FBI criminal investigators on the Cole bombing, not even the President's cabinet members at the September 4, 2001, meeting, the only meeting in the White House on the al Qaeda terrorists at that point. Thousands of people were just about to be murdered on September 4, 2001, and Tenet keeps this all a great big secret. Explain that if you can!

Richard Clarke even said to Condoleezza Rice going into this very White House meeting on September 4, 2001:

I wounder if some day the American people will wonder why we did not do more to stop this (imminent) al Qaeda terrorist attack (inside of the US).

I really doubt if you can explain any of this!

 

[paloalto]

Assuming facts not in evidence anywhere but in your imagination, but have at it.

Everybody needs a hobby.

The facts that I have quoted come from the Joint Inquiry Committee investigation, the statements by the head of the FAA, and from the other investigations on 9/11.

You wrote: "Assuming facts not in evidence anywhere but in your imagination".

I have already stated where my facts came from, where did your facts come from, assuming you have any. But that may be a assumption of facts not in evidence anywhere, but in your own imagination.

 

[DGM]

The facts that I have quoted come from the Joint Inquiry Committee investigation, the statements by the head of the FAA, and from the other investigations on 9/11.

Are you claiming everything you post is the facts from this source? There is no interpretation on your part?

Your interpretation has been questioned several times and you have never been able to substantiate your claims.

For instance:

Why would people who clearly knew about this horrific al Qaeda terrorist attack that was just about to take place inside of the US that would cause mass US casualties, shut down the only criminal investigations of al Qaeda terrorists found inside of the US when they clearly knew that this would allow these attacks to take place?

I've never seen factual evidence leading me to believe this question/claim is true.

 

[BStrong]

The facts that I have quoted come from the Joint Inquiry Committee investigation, the statements by the head of the FAA, and from the other investigations on 9/11.

You wrote: "Assuming facts not in evidence anywhere but in your imagination".

I have already stated where my facts came from, where did your facts come from, assuming you have any. But that may be a assumption of facts not in evidence anywhere, but in your own imagination.

Your "facts" assume perfect foreknowledge on the part of intelligence and law enforcement agencies.

It didn't happen that way.

Even when a law enforcement agency is directly informed of a lethal threat, they often fail to act, or don't respond until after the threat has been carried out:

http://madamenoire.com/265960/smh-w...e-that-her-ex-husband-was-trying-to-kill-her/


"On August 17th of 2012, 32-year-old Deanna Cook was murdered while on the phone with a 911 dispatcher, reports the NY Daily News. It took the operator 9 minutes to map Cook’s location and when they eventually arrived on the scene, they knocked on the door and called Cook’s phone. When Cook didn’t answer, responders left the scene. The victim’s teenage daughter found her body in a bathtub two days later.

To makes matters worse, Cook notified the police on several occasions that her ex-husband was trying to kill her during the months leading up to her death.


“My name is Deanna Cook and I have a stalker. He’s already tried to kill me three times. I’m really just fed up with this. I can’t keep moving and changing my life because of this,” Cook can be heard telling a 911 dispatcher on a previous call.

“I don’t even want him to know that I called, you know what I’m saying? That’s the thing. That triggers him when he knows that I called. He tears the stuff up in my house,” she continued.

On one occasion, she even notified the authorities that he was watching her house.

“I have been going through this for like 5 years with him. It’s still the same thing. I have complaints. If you can look up my name, you’ll see there are a hundred thousand complaints, but ain’t nobody doing nothing,” she can be heard frustratedly informing a 911 operator who suggested that she file for a restraining order against Patrik.

“All I can do is try to help you ma’am. It’s all up to you. You are going to have to. It will be up to you to actually try to do the things that we suggest to you. But if you don’t do that, you know that police hands are tied,” the dispatcher tells Cook.

Just google: woman murdered after reporting death threat

These are simple issues compared to 9/11.

The players involved on the intell. and enforcement end did not have any better knowledge of what was on the menu than the dispatchers/LEO's did in the case above, contrary to your understanding of the material.

Some intell. weenie wasn't going to turn the ship of F.B.I. enforcement and investigatory priorities based on what they, or the C.I.A. for that matter, had as evidence pre-9/11. Players that were known members or suspects were on the move. Pretty difficult pre-9/11 to detain and arrest suspects w/o hard evidence in hand, and we didn't have anything much better than speculation.

 

[paloalto]

Are you claiming everything you post is the facts from this source? There is no interpretation on your part?

Your interpretation has been questioned several times and you have never been able to substantiate your claims.

For instance:



I've never seen factual evidence leading me to believe this question/claim is true.

The fact that the CIA clearly knew about this attack comes right from Bob Woodward's book, State of Denial, which describes this information given by the CIA to Rice, Hadley and Clarke on July 10, 2001 at the White House, and the 9/11 Public hearings on April 14, 2004 right from CIA Director George Tenet.

Director of the CIA, George Tenet, also admitted that he had this information at the April 14, 2004 , 9/11 public hearings.

The fact that Tom Wilshere, Deputy Chief of the FBI ITOS unit, the unit in charge of all FBI investigations of al Qaeda terrorists, knew this al Qaeda terrorist attack was going to take place inside of the US, and that he was told these al Qaeda terrorists were inside of the US comes from DE 939, (the fact that he knew Khalid al-Mihdhar was going to take part inn this attack, and that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were already inside of the US on August 21, 2001) and the DOJ IG report, (his July 5, 2001 email back to the CIA).

The information that Tom Pickard and the upper management of the FBI knew this al Qaeda terrorist attack was going to take place inside of the US comes from his own testimony to the 9/11 Commission in public hearings.

 

[paloalto]

Your "facts" assume perfect foreknowledge on the part of intelligence and law enforcement agencies.

It didn't happen that way.

Even when a law enforcement agency is directly informed of a lethal threat, they often fail to act, or don't respond until after the threat has been carried out:

http://madamenoire.com/265960/smh-w...e-that-her-ex-husband-was-trying-to-kill-her/


"On August 17th of 2012, 32-year-old Deanna Cook was murdered while on the phone with a 911 dispatcher, reports the NY Daily News. It took the operator 9 minutes to map Cook’s location and when they eventually arrived on the scene, they knocked on the door and called Cook’s phone. When Cook didn’t answer, responders left the scene. The victim’s teenage daughter found her body in a bathtub two days later.

To makes matters worse, Cook notified the police on several occasions that her ex-husband was trying to kill her during the months leading up to her death.


“My name is Deanna Cook and I have a stalker. He’s already tried to kill me three times. I’m really just fed up with this. I can’t keep moving and changing my life because of this,” Cook can be heard telling a 911 dispatcher on a previous call.

“I don’t even want him to know that I called, you know what I’m saying? That’s the thing. That triggers him when he knows that I called. He tears the stuff up in my house,” she continued.

On one occasion, she even notified the authorities that he was watching her house.

“I have been going through this for like 5 years with him. It’s still the same thing. I have complaints. If you can look up my name, you’ll see there are a hundred thousand complaints, but ain’t nobody doing nothing,” she can be heard frustratedly informing a 911 operator who suggested that she file for a restraining order against Patrik.

“All I can do is try to help you ma’am. It’s all up to you. You are going to have to. It will be up to you to actually try to do the things that we suggest to you. But if you don’t do that, you know that police hands are tied,” the dispatcher tells Cook.

Just google: woman murdered after reporting death threat

These are simple issues compared to 9/11.

The players involved on the intell. and enforcement end did not have any better knowledge of what was on the menu than the dispatchers/LEO's did in the case above, contrary to your understanding of the material.

Some intell. weenie wasn't going to turn the ship of F.B.I. enforcement and investigatory priorities based on what they, or the C.I.A. for that matter, had as evidence pre-9/11. Players that were known members or suspects were on the move. Pretty difficult pre-9/11 to detain and arrest suspects w/o hard evidence in hand, and we didn't have anything much better than speculation.

As I stated before all they had to do was give this information about Mihdhar and Hazmi to the FAA. The FAA would have done the rest.

 

[BStrong]

As I stated before all they had to do was give this information about Mihdhar and Hazmi to the FAA. The FAA would have done the rest.

The FAA wasn't and isn't a law enforcement agency.

 

[paloalto]

The FAA wasn't and isn't a law enforcement agency.

To repeat what I posted earlier.

Mr. Manno was the head of the FAA.

This is from his testimony to the Joint Inquiry Committee:

"Senator WYDEN. With respect to al Mihdhar and al-Hazmi, did your agency have the names of those two hijackers prior to September 11, 2001?

Mr. MANNO. No, we did not.

Senator WYDEN. If you had, what steps would have been taken, had you had that information?

Mr. MANNO. Well, prior to 9/11, we had a process, we had a so called watch list which was disseminated to the industry via the security directive process. In fact, a number of the people that we suspected were involved in what we call the Manila plot, the Bojinka plot, as you referred to it, were on that list. Again, what we would—the purpose of that process was to highlight for the air carriers particular individuals, individuals that had ties to terrorist groups and that presented a threat to aviation who should either be denied boarding or should be, if they showed up for the boarding, called to the attention of law enforcement. Had we had information that those two individuals presented a threat to aviation or posed a great danger, we would have put them on that list, and they should have been picked up in the reservation process."

The FAA had issued a notice to all airlines that if Khalid Sheikh Mohammed showed up at any US airport he was to be bared from getting on any aircraft and arrested. Had the FAA known that Mihdhar and Hazmi were also a threat to aviation security they would have done the same thing with these two al Qaeda terrorists. How woudl anyone have known this.

The 9/11 Commission report states that the CIA was told on June 12, 2001, that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was behind the attacks that the CIA and FBI had been warned about since April 2001, and that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was recruiting al Qaeda terrorists in the summer of 2001 to be sent into the US to link up with other al Qaeda terrorists who were already inside of the US who the CIA knew were Nawaf al-Hazmi who was already inside of the US and Khalid al-Mihdhar, who had a multi-entry visa for the US, to carry out this al Qaeda terrorist attack.

All the CIA had to do was give the FAA these names, Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdhar. If Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was to be arrested if/when he showed up at any US airport, then Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdhar, the two al Qaeda terrorist inside of the US who were to link up with the other al Qaeda terrorists being sent into the US that were being recruited by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, should have been on the FAA list also. This only seems logical.

How did the CIA know they might show up at a US airport?

Both the CIA and the FBI had copies of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's Bojinka plot, the very plot mentioned by FAA Director Manno. This plot called for the hijacking of multiple commercial aircraft inside of the US and flying these into the two World Trade Center Towers, the Pentagon and the US capital building.

 

[DGM]

The fact that the CIA clearly knew about this attack comes right from Bob Woodward's book, State of Denial, which describes this information given by the CIA to Rice, Hadley and Clarke on July 10, 2001 at the White House, and the 9/11 Public hearings on April 14, 2004 right from CIA Director George Tenet.

Director of the CIA, George Tenet, also admitted that he had this information at the April 14, 2004 , 9/11 public hearings.

The fact that Tom Wilshere, Deputy Chief of the FBI ITOS unit, the unit in charge of all FBI investigations of al Qaeda terrorists, knew this al Qaeda terrorist attack was going to take place inside of the US, and that he was told these al Qaeda terrorists were inside of the US comes from DE 939, (the fact that he knew Khalid al-Mihdhar was going to take part inn this attack, and that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were already inside of the US on August 21, 2001) and the DOJ IG report, (his July 5, 2001 email back to the CIA).

The information that Tom Pickard and the upper management of the FBI knew this al Qaeda terrorist attack was going to take place inside of the US comes from his own testimony to the 9/11 Commission in public hearings.

So......Why has no one been prosecuted for these crimes?

Please give us your theory.

My theory is it's not as simple as you make it out to be. I also believe hindsight might have something to do with your clarity.

 

[beachnut]

To repeat ...
Both the CIA and the FBI had copies of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's Bojinka plot, the very plot mentioned by FAA Director Manno. This plot called for the hijacking of multiple commercial aircraft inside of the US and flying these into the two World Trade Center Towers, the Pentagon and the US capital building.

Can you post the arrest warrants for those guys?

The Bojinka plot was not about the WTC, Pentagon and Capitol Building, not US capital, that is money, why would you fly an aircraft into money.

You have no clue what the Bojinka plot was...

Bojinka plot.. see wiki - They planned to assassinate Pope John Paul II, blow up 11 airliners in flight from Asia to the United States[1] with the goal of killing approximately 4,000 passengers and shut down air travel around the world, and crash a plane into the headquarters of the CIA in Fairfax County, Virginia.[2]

The 9/11 nuts did not use explosives.

, was the Bojinka plot a ruse to have the CIA/FBI looking for explosives... not simple travel, but explosives. The 19 terrorists broke no laws by buying tickets and flying airlines, until they stood up and killed crew, pilots and crashed planes.

 

[Axxman300]

Both the CIA and the FBI had copies of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's Bojinka plot, the very plot mentioned by FAA Director Manno. This plot called for the hijacking of multiple commercial aircraft inside of the US and flying these into the two World Trade Center Towers, the Pentagon and the US capital building.

You misrepresent Bonjinka consistently.

Bojinka was the plot to blow up multiple airliners over the Pacific between January 15 through the 27, 1995. It was FOILED when a fire in Yousef's apartment.

As far as US intel and law enforcement were concerned, Bojinka was past tense.


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/11/world/asia/11iht-web.0811manila.2447764.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/11/world/asia/11iht-web.0811manila.2447764.html


9/11 evolved out of Bojinka, as have other failed and successful attacks on passenger jets because it is considered a play-book today by terrorist forces.

Bojinka's Phase II listed the WTC, Pentagon, White House, Capital building, CIA HQ, nuke plants, and others, but since the masterminds behind Bojinka were in prison by 2001 Phase II was nothing more than an anecdotal concept to be war-gamed at Langely.

 

[BStrong]

To repeat what I posted earlier.

Mr. Manno was the head of the FAA.

This is from his testimony to the Joint Inquiry Committee:

"Senator WYDEN. With respect to al Mihdhar and al-Hazmi, did your agency have the names of those two hijackers prior to September 11, 2001?

Mr. MANNO. No, we did not.

Senator WYDEN. If you had, what steps would have been taken, had you had that information?

Mr. MANNO. Well, prior to 9/11, we had a process, we had a so called watch list which was disseminated to the industry via the security directive process. In fact, a number of the people that we suspected were involved in what we call the Manila plot, the Bojinka plot, as you referred to it, were on that list. Again, what we would—the purpose of that process was to highlight for the air carriers particular individuals, individuals that had ties to terrorist groups and that presented a threat to aviation who should either be denied boarding or should be, if they showed up for the boarding, called to the attention of law enforcement. Had we had information that those two individuals presented a threat to aviation or posed a great danger, we would have put them on that list, and they should have been picked up in the reservation process."

The FAA had issued a notice to all airlines that if Khalid Sheikh Mohammed showed up at any US airport he was to be bared from getting on any aircraft and arrested. Had the FAA known that Mihdhar and Hazmi were also a threat to aviation security they would have done the same thing with these two al Qaeda terrorists. How woudl anyone have known this.

The 9/11 Commission report states that the CIA was told on June 12, 2001, that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was behind the attacks that the CIA and FBI had been warned about since April 2001, and that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was recruiting al Qaeda terrorists in the summer of 2001 to be sent into the US to link up with other al Qaeda terrorists who were already inside of the US who the CIA knew were Nawaf al-Hazmi who was already inside of the US and Khalid al-Mihdhar, who had a multi-entry visa for the US, to carry out this al Qaeda terrorist attack.

All the CIA had to do was give the FAA these names, Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdhar. If Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was to be arrested if/when he showed up at any US airport, then Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Mihdhar, the two al Qaeda terrorist inside of the US who were to link up with the other al Qaeda terrorists being sent into the US that were being recruited by Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, should have been on the FAA list also. This only seems logical.

How did the CIA know they might show up at a US airport?

Both the CIA and the FBI had copies of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's Bojinka plot, the very plot mentioned by FAA Director Manno. This plot called for the hijacking of multiple commercial aircraft inside of the US and flying these into the two World Trade Center Towers, the Pentagon and the US capital building.

You're more than a little confused.

The FAA does not have the powers to arrest - even the Air Marshal program is not under their authority. TSA administers the AM program.

The FAA has authority over civilian air transport companies and the certification of their aircraft, licensing of both private and commercial pilots, A & P mechanic licensing, etc. They can pull licenses from previously certified pilots. mechanics and companies.

What they can't do and don't do is effect arrests on their own authority with their own personnel.

Can the federal government have individuals arrested? of course, but not without a valid warrant, or a criminal offense committed in an officers presence - and connecting names to names, even names of established terror suspects, doesn't constitute enough probable cause for the issuance of a warrant. Outside the U.S. with no involvement of the F.B.I., even before 9/11 the rest of the world was kind of like Vegas - formal arrest warrants might not be in hand until after an actual detention, and the later formal arrest would be within established standards...if an actual arrest was the original intention.

If your version of this reality was correct, the current F.B.I. counter terror ops wouldn't need to go to the extent of having the suspect carry out at least one affirmative act furthering a criminal conspiracy to make an arrest.

Your version? suspected bad guy talks to bad guy - bingo, arrest.

It's a no-go. Think back to the Ft. Hood shooter. It was known he was communicating with Anwar al-Awlaki prior to his carrying out his attack - and he was investigated - not arrested - by the F.B.I. - and unfortunately cleared.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidal_Hasan#Al-Awlaki_e-mails

Your version of events in the run up to 9/11 do not withstand examination wrt arresting the eventual players on 9/11, and I have no clue as to how you came to the conclusion that the FAA is a federal agency with general criminal law enforcement authority, they're not now, and they weren't then.

 

[paloalto]

You misrepresent Bonjinka consistently.

Bojinka was the plot to blow up multiple airliners over the Pacific between January 15 through the 27, 1995. It was FOILED when a fire in Yousef's apartment.

As far as US intel and law enforcement were concerned, Bojinka was past tense.


http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/11/world/asia/11iht-web.0811manila.2447764.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/11/world/asia/11iht-web.0811manila.2447764.html


9/11 evolved out of Bojinka, as have other failed and successful attacks on passenger jets because it is considered a play-book today by terrorist forces.

Bojinka's Phase II listed the WTC, Pentagon, White House, Capital building, CIA HQ, nuke plants, and others, but since the masterminds behind Bojinka were in prison by 2001 Phase II was nothing more than an anecdotal concept to be war-gamed at Langely.

It is clear that the al Qaeda terrorists scaled back their plans for 9/11 and only attacked the most visible and iconic targets.

But the very mastermind of the Bojinka plot, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, was not only not in prison, but was in fact actually masterminding the very al Qaeda terrorist attack that the CIA and FBI were getting numerous warnings about since April 2001, the attack on 9/11. The CIA was even made aware of this on June 12, 2001, that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, was the mastermind behind the al Qaeda terrorist attack, that the CIA had been getting numerous warnings about.

But what is even more damming is that the CIA had actually photographed Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, right at this planning meeting, staying right at the condominium, with Mihdhar and Hazmi, where the January 5-8 al Qaeda terrorist planning summit meeting was taking place, and in spite of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed having at that time, a 2 million dollar FBI reward on his head, the CIA just let him walk away to ultimately direct the attacks on 9/11. The CIA at that time was clearly aware of this FBI reward on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

 

[Axxman300]

But what is even more damming is that the CIA had actually photographed Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, right at this planning meeting, staying right at the condominium, with Mihdhar and Hazmi, where the January 5-8 al Qaeda terrorist planning summit meeting was taking place, and in spite of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed having at that time, a 2 million dollar FBI reward on his head, the CIA just let him walk away to ultimately direct the attacks on 9/11. The CIA at that time was clearly aware of this FBI reward on Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

1. The CIA doesn't arrest people.

2. All CIA operations are code-name sensitive, and so they're not going to pick up the phone to call the FBI, ISI, or anybody else about a fugitive.

3. The CIA was not in the assassination business until after 9/11/2001.

4. A surveillance is just that, sneak and peek. Had the CIA moved on KSM on the spot chances are there was a solid operational reason or two or three. Like giving away their presence in a foreign country (even Canada gets upset about this), jeopardizing CIA assets exposing them to arrest and torture (see the doctor who helped us nail UBL). Either way, blowing the whistle would have endangered multiple operations in that AO, and since NOBODY knew what the attacks would look like the assumption would have been another truck-bomb or two.

5. Even if they had called the FBI to come and fetch them the host country would ask how the FBI knew where KSM was, and their internal security forces would begin a search for the CIA OP. (See #4).

Then there is the long list of trust issues between the FBI and CIA, so there's no guarantee that the Bureau would have done anything even if they had the information. History shows this to be a likelihood.

 

[paloalto]

You're more than a little confused.

The FAA does not have the powers to arrest - even the Air Marshal program is not under their authority. TSA administers the AM program.

The FAA has authority over civilian air transport companies and the certification of their aircraft, licensing of both private and commercial pilots, A & P mechanic licensing, etc. They can pull licenses from previously certified pilots. mechanics and companies.

What they can't do and don't do is effect arrests on their own authority with their own personnel.

Can the federal government have individuals arrested? of course, but not without a valid warrant, or a criminal offense committed in an officers presence - and connecting names to names, even names of established terror suspects, doesn't constitute enough probable cause for the issuance of a warrant. Outside the U.S. with no involvement of the F.B.I., even before 9/11 the rest of the world was kind of like Vegas - formal arrest warrants might not be in hand until after an actual detention, and the later formal arrest would be within established standards...if an actual arrest was the original intention.

If your version of this reality was correct, the current F.B.I. counter terror ops wouldn't need to go to the extent of having the suspect carry out at least one affirmative act furthering a criminal conspiracy to make an arrest.

Your version? suspected bad guy talks to bad guy - bingo, arrest.

It's a no-go. Think back to the Ft. Hood shooter. It was known he was communicating with Anwar al-Awlaki prior to his carrying out his attack - and he was investigated - not arrested - by the F.B.I. - and unfortunately cleared.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nidal_Hasan#Al-Awlaki_e-mails

Your version of events in the run up to 9/11 do not withstand examination wrt arresting the eventual players on 9/11, and I have no clue as to how you came to the conclusion that the FAA is a federal agency with general criminal law enforcement authority, they're not now, and they weren't then.

This is what I previously posted:

Mr. MANNO. Well, prior to 9/11, we had a process, we had a so called watch list which was disseminated to the industry via the security directive process. In fact, a number of the people that we suspected were involved in what we call the Manila plot, the Bojinka plot, as you referred to it, were on that list. Again, what we would—the purpose of that process was to highlight for the air carriers particular individuals, individuals that had ties to terrorist groups and that presented a threat to aviation who should either be denied boarding or should be, if they showed up for the boarding, called to the attention of law enforcement. Had we had information that those two individuals presented a threat to aviation or posed a great danger, we would have put them on that list, and they should have been picked up in the reservation process."

This clearly states that: "the purpose of that process, (the no fly list), was to highlight for the air carriers particular individuals, individuals that had ties to terrorist groups and that presented a threat to aviation who should either be denied boarding or should be, if they showed up for the boarding, called to the attention of law enforcement. Had we had information that those two individuals presented a threat to aviation or posed a great danger, we would have put them on that list, and they should have been picked up in the reservation process.

It was law enforcement that would have arrested these people, not the FAA.

Also note: this no fly list was to highlight for the air carriers particular individuals, individuals that had ties to terrorist groups and that presented a threat to aviation.

I don't know how I can make this any clearer than that. The role of the FAA would have been to "highlight for the air carriers (the names of) particular individuals", not to actually arrest these individuals. My posts never claimed that the FAA would arrest anybody.

 

[paloalto]

1. The CIA doesn't arrest people.

2. All CIA operations are code-name sensitive, and so they're not going to pick up the phone to call the FBI, ISI, or anybody else about a fugitive.

3. The CIA was not in the assassination business until after 9/11/2001.

4. A surveillance is just that, sneak and peek. Had the CIA moved on KSM on the spot chances are there was a solid operational reason or two or three. Like giving away their presence in a foreign country (even Canada gets upset about this), jeopardizing CIA assets exposing them to arrest and torture (see the doctor who helped us nail UBL). Either way, blowing the whistle would have endangered multiple operations in that AO, and since NOBODY knew what the attacks would look like the assumption would have been another truck-bomb or two.

5. Even if they had called the FBI to come and fetch them the host country would ask how the FBI knew where KSM was, and their internal security forces would begin a search for the CIA OP. (See #4).

Then there is the long list of trust issues between the FBI and CIA, so there's no guarantee that the Bureau would have done anything even if they had the information. History shows this to be a likelihood.

It was the Malaysian Special Branch that was surveilling this meeting in Kuala Lumpur for the CIA, and taking photos of the people that had attended this meeting, not the CIA itself. The Malaysian Special Branch sent the pictures back to the CIA at the time of the meeting. It was the Malaysian Special Branch that was perplexed and stunned when the CIA let all of these dangerous al Qaeda terrorists, many of who were already wanted for murder, walk from this meeting with no further surveillance or arrest.