Cont: Proof of Immortality, V for Very long discussion

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This doesn't seem to be a serious response...

You're not doing much to show you're interested in a serious response. Would it be more likely to say you're looking for a straw-man response that you can dishonestly characterize as the only response skeptics have given for your proof?
 
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I think that, using Bayesian statistics, I can virtually disprove the consensus scientific hypothesis that we each have only one, finite, life to live…

1. If something occurs that is unlikely to occur -- given a particular hypothesis -- the event is potential evidence against the hypothesis.
1.1. Untrue.

2. The strength of the evidence depends in part upon how unlikely the event is -- given the hypothesis
3. It is evidence similar to “opportunity” in a murder trial in that it can be totally meaningless if other conditions are not met.
4. For one thing, the hypothesis in question does need to have a ‘reasonable’ bit of doubt as to its truth.
5. For another thing, in many situations, the specific event is only one of NUMEROUS possible results (millions?) -- and for unlikelihood to be of consequence in such a case, the specific result has to be meaningfully set apart from most other possible results.
5.1. So, how do you set apart your existence from any of the other possible results? ...
Dave,

- I hope you don't mind too much, but since sackett doesn't appear to be serious, I'll respond to your responses as well as sacett's.

5.2. This is the area of which I'm least sure, but I have several potential answers... My best guess is that I'm clearly set apart from those from which I need to be set apart in order to satisfy the logic of Bayes -- i.e. I'm set apart from all those others who do not currently exist. I contend that I don't need to be set apart from those who do currently exist -- as they're in the same boat as me.
- And, what seals the deal (IMO), is that there is some reasonable doubt as to the truth of OOFLam -- there are, in fact, other possibilities that make my current existence much more likely than does OOFLam.
- IMO, the prior probability of OOFLam is no more than .99, whereas the likelihood of my current existence, given OOFlam, is practically zero.
 
Dave,

- I hope you don't mind too much, but since sackett doesn't appear to be serious, I'll respond to your responses as well as sacett's.

5.2. This is the area of which I'm least sure, but I have several potential answers... My best guess is that I'm clearly set apart from those from which I need to be set apart in order to satisfy the logic of Bayes -- i.e. I'm set apart from all those others who do not currently exist. I contend that I don't need to be set apart from those who do currently exist -- as they're in the same boat as me.

That doesn't answer the question. It just repeats the claim.

- And, what seals the deal (IMO), is that there is some reasonable doubt as to the truth of OOFLam -- there are, in fact, other possibilities that make my current existence much more likely than does OOFLam.
- IMO, the prior probability of OOFLam is no more than .99, whereas the likelihood of my current existence, given OOFlam, is practically zero.

"Practically zero" is not a mathematical term.

You can't use OOFLam being wrong to get a likelihood of your current existence given OOFLam. You claim to be contrasting P(E|H) with P(E|~H). But now you're saying P(E|H) is very low because H might be wrong. How does that make any sense?
 
Apparently numbering statements has become a substitute for actual discussion and critical thought:

1. Establish that there is a consistent 'self' that can be defined and measured to demonstrate that there is a 'consistent' self for this discussion to even occur. The impression that you have or experience a self is likely a false interpretation of inconstant perceptions and memory.

a. define 'self'
b. establish objective standards for definition of 'self', including report subjective states
c. demonstrate that alleged 'self' is consistent and not a transitory phenomena
 
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My best guess is that I'm clearly set apart from those from which I need to be set apart in order to satisfy the logic of Bayes...

But as I noted above, you don't understand the parts of a Bayesian inference and what they do. And we're not the only people who have told you this, so you can't write it off as mere skeptical rhetoric. Further, you don't seem to consider the possibility that a Bayesian inference is not the right way to construct your mathematical proof. You're trying to make the problem fit Bayes, not choose the right tool for the problem.

i.e. I'm set apart from all those others who do not currently exist.

But by what criteria? So far it's simply that you exist, which doesn't transcend the Texas sharpshooter fallacy. All you're doing is exactly choosing the target after the bullet was fired. You now exist, and you're trying to make that existence retroactively significant to the time before you existed, or in comparison to a case where you don't exist. That's tantamount to trying to make the bullet hole somehow retroactively significant to the time before you fired the bullet. You are committing a textbook example of the Texas sharpshooter fallacy.

If you want to escape the Texas sharpshooter fallacy you have to show an actual way, objectively determinable under H, in which you were significant before you existed. If you assume a soul -- which you do -- then that's easy. However, the reason you're calling up this notion of you (and everyone else -- see below) existing, and of an infinity of potential souls, is because this is how you tell us you're reckoning P(E|H). There are no souls in E. There are no souls in H. You can't reckon P(E|H) using things those concepts don't give you.

P(E|H) in your formula is 7,000,000 / ∞, which you go on to wrongly say is "practically zero." But the fatal flaw we're considering in for the moment is not your mathematical illiteracy but rather that you're formulating P(E|H) via a combination of the Texas sharpshooter fallacy, a begged question, and a straw man -- all of which employ things not found in either E or H. Your numerator is the Texas sharpshooter fallacy. E is a begged question. And, for completeness, division by infinity is not defined in this case. Where it is defined, it is defined as exactly zero, not "practically" zero or "virtually" zero.

How you've committed the straw-man fallacy that in the past is to back-door the concept of a soul causing self-awareness into E. That is, you equivocate E to mean not just "I exist and am self-aware," but rather "I exist and am self-aware, and this self-awareness is some unique soul-like thingy." You absolutely do not get to do that when reckoning P(E|H). It's begging the question of some kind of soul and trying to make H account for it. Neither E nor H provides any such concept.

I contend that I don't need to be set apart from those who do currently exist -- as they're in the same boat as me.

Yes, but that's just committing the Texas sharpshooter fallacy 6,999,999 more times. It doesn't become somehow more valid the more times you make the mistake.

And, what seals the deal (IMO), is that there is some reasonable doubt as to the truth of OOFLam...

But that's irrelevant to estimating P(E|H), as you've been told so many times. When reckoning P(E|H) you must reason as if H were true, even if you don't believe in H. P(H) is a different part of the formula. As I note above, you are quite unfamiliar with what the concepts are in a Bayesian inference. You've shown no interest in correcting your ignorance, as the statisticians you consulted informed you.

...there are, in fact, other possibilities that make my current existence much more likely than does OOFLam.

Those possibilities cannot factor into P(E|H) at all. Those are P(E|~H). You wrongly compute P(E|~H) too, and here you're just begging the question again, but we'll save that for another post.

IMO, the prior probability of OOFLam is no more than .99, whereas the likelihood of my current existence, given OOFlam, is practically zero.

The method by which you compute P(E|H) is pure pseudo-mathematical gibberish. This is a serious answer to your question. The above explains why. You will ignore it. You are not interested in serious answers.
 
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This is the area of which I'm least sure, but I have several potential answers... My best guess is that I'm clearly set apart from those from which I need to be set apart in order to satisfy the logic of Bayes -- i.e. I'm set apart from all those others who do not currently exist.


How are you set apart from all those others that do not currently exist?
 
That doesn't answer the question. It just repeats the claim.
Oh, but it does so much more than that. It employs anachronistic word definitions, meaningless acronyms, and underlining that doesn't hyperlink. It uses wrong formulas and tortures mathematical concepts.

Give the guy some credit here.
 
Oh, but it does so much more than that. It employs anachronistic word definitions, meaningless acronyms, and underlining that doesn't hyperlink. It uses wrong formulas and tortures mathematical concepts.

Give the guy some credit here.

Lies for Jesus, nothing more
 
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5. For another thing, in many situations, the specific event is only one of NUMEROUS possible results (millions?) -- and for unlikelihood to be of consequence in such a case, the specific result has to be meaningfully set apart from most other possible results.
5.1. So, how do you set apart your existence from any of the other possible results? ...

...
5.2. This is the area of which I'm least sure, but I have several potential answers... My best guess is that I'm clearly set apart from those from which I need to be set apart in order to satisfy the logic of Bayes -- i.e. I'm set apart from all those others who do not currently exist. I contend that I don't need to be set apart from those who do currently exist -- as they're in the same boat as me...

That doesn't answer the question. It just repeats the claim...
Dave,
- I don't set apart my existence from any of the possible results. I set apart my existence from most of the possible results
 
I don't set apart my existence from any of the possible results. I set apart my existence from most of the possible results

Again, you don't describe what -- if any -- actual criteria sets your existence apart from anything. As he said, you're not proving the proposition; you're just restating the proposition using increasingly equivocal language. All we can extract from your ipse dico is that you believe your existence is set apart from things that don't exist, by virtue of existing. That's about as tautological as it gets.
 
- I'm a potential self that currently exists. Most potential selves do not currently exist (under modern science).

That makes no sense. How can you be potential and currently existing?

You have not yet answered the crucial question: how do you know that there are potential selves at all?
 
- I'm a potential self that currently exists. Most potential selves do not currently exist (under modern science).

Before you existed, what set your potential self apart from the potential selves that didn't end up existing?
 
- I'm a potential self that currently exists. Most potential selves do not currently exist (under modern science).

And we're back to potential Volkswagens. You can't be both a potential and an actual. The concepts are mutually exclusive. You already admitted that "potential selves" don't exist in any meaningful way. It's just a pseudo-mathematical abstraction. Neither E nor H nor "modern science" contains any such concept as you're spewing, so you don't get to use it to reckon P(E|H). No, you really don't, no matter how fervently you wish you do. Straw man.

So once again your rationale boils down to the only thing that sets your existence apart is that you exist. Tautology.
 
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