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Another terrorist attack - London Bridge

Beady said:
[qimg]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170604/3cfb44ad8f47fe20afab0be8754ea8f2.jpg[/qimg]

This signature is intended to irritate people.
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I still find it irritating to see the word "liberal" used to mean some hard left ideology.
 
IanS said:
Latest thing is that BBC radio 5-Live are saying that the Sun newspaper are reporting that the police have shot dead up to 3 men who were apparently wearing some sort of suicide bomb devices (or so it appeared to witnesses).

But that's a very early and new report from the Sun, and the Sun may be an unreliable source. However a close eye witness (living in a flat directly above the scene) described to the BBC how he could clearly see and hear the police being directed away from the Tavern towards the market area where witnesses on the ground were telling the police that the attacker/s had run off into that market area, and the witness then described how he very clearly heard several gunshots … IOW, he was agreeing that it might easily be the case that the police had shot one or more of the attackers.
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Bombs or not, I'm sure that was on the police minds when they were yelling at everyone to get back, get further back. Really scary if it turned out to be a bomb in the van.
 
NoahFence said:
Cab you link to a source that said that?
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Not for this attack, not yet. My comment was based on experience from previous attacks in which terrorists yelled allah akbar before commencing their jihad and the press went on to question their motive. It's still early, though. I would love to be proven wrong this time.
 
Hercules56 said:
All Brits, be they Jew, Christian, Muslim, Hindu, should unite against the scourge of Islamist religious Extremism.
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A small change, but one that brings me fully onboard! I don't care the source- it is abhorrent no matter what religion with which they claim to identify. And it need not even be a religion: murder is murder.
 
Bogative said:
Not for this attack, not yet. My comment was based on experience from previous attacks in which terrorists yelled allah akbar before commencing their jihad and the press went on to question their motive. It's still early, though. I would love to be proven wrong this time.
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You may very well be correct. That probably is the way to bet. But why the need to jump to any conclusion in this regard when the facts will be available in just hours, or at most a day or two? Isn't finding out the actual culprits the key, which begins with finding out what actually happened first?
Would you really love to be proven wrong in this case? Or is that just an expression?
 
Bogative said:
Not for this attack, not yet. My comment was based on experience from previous attacks in which terrorists yelled allah akbar before commencing their jihad and the press went on to question their motive. It's still early, though. I would love to be proven wrong this time.
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OK, so the "apologist media" hasn't chimed in yet?
 
NoahFence said:
OK, so the "apologist media" hasn't chimed in yet?
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They have.

From The New York Times twitter feed.
https://twitter.com/nytimesworld/status/871202731532353536

They chose to use this caption on a photo posted on their timeline:
The police said they were dealing with a major incident on the bridge but that it was too early to suggest suggest a motive.
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This despite the fact that the article the tweet links to quotes an eyewitness hearing a jihadist say it was for allah.
 
Bogative said:
Not for this attack, not yet. My comment was based on experience from previous attacks in which terrorists yelled allah akbar before commencing their jihad and the press went on to question their motive. It's still early, though. I would love to be proven wrong this time.
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Why proven wrong? Presumably the same number of people end up dying.
 
Caper said:
The Muslims aren't going anywhere, like you or someone said, but it's time we stop pretending there is not a SERIOUS problem in that community. Not an equivalent problem that every other religion must deal with, but a very specfic problem or problems with Islam. No doubt it can be come as toothless as Christianity is in the UK, but it's going to take a long time and work.
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I don't think anyone in a position of authority doesn't think that radical Islamic terrorism is a big problem. The conundrum is what to do about it. Rounding up and interring large proportions of Britain's Muslim communities, shutting down the borders to certain countries, forced "reprogramming" of Muslim youth, state interference in mosques and madrassas and so on are IMO only going to pour fuel on the fire :(.

In the UK however, Christianity is hardly toothless. People in Northern Ireland are still being seriously injured and even kill in the name of one flavour or other of Christianity. The attacks are carried out by criminal gangs who have associated themselves with the religion of one side of the sectarian divide in order to assume some kind of legitimacy. IMO radical Islamic terrorism have done something, a group of murderous thugs have wrapped themselves in a cloak of religion in an attempt to legitimise their activities.

To be clear, I don't profess to have a solution BUT I fear that many of the suggested solutions will only exacerbate the problem.
 
The Don said:
In the UK however, Christianity is hardly toothless. People in Northern Ireland are still being seriously injured and even kill in the name of one flavour or other of Christianity. The attacks are carried out by criminal gangs who have associated themselves with the religion of one side of the sectarian divide in order to assume some kind of legitimacy. IMO radical Islamic terrorism have done something, a group of murderous thugs have wrapped themselves in a cloak of religion in an attempt to legitimise their activities.
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What are their goals, then? I can understand well enough what the motive of gangs are - make money and maybe get their land into Republic of Ireland (this one may be insincere). They aren't killing people for the sake of killing people but to benefit their pockets. What is the motive of Islamic thugs who routinely get killed in their attacks?

It's not money, you don't need that if you're dead and you can't earn it their way if you believe you do anyway. If their motive is not religious, what is it?

McHrozni
 
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My condolence to the family of those hit.

Seismosaurus said:
We endured decades of terrorist attacks by christians. It didn't lead to repression of christianity.
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IRA
Red army faction (bader band for example)
Basque liberation front
Free corse
Etc...

Most people here forget or are not aware that terrorism has a long history in EU.

Islam has only the top spot because in the last 2 decades the other groups slowed down or disbanded.

But you know what i find funny ? The first reaction of some was not for the victims, but rather a semi jubilant "it is islam".
 
McHrozni said:
What are their goals, then? I can understand well enough what the motive of gangs are - make money and maybe get their land into Republic of Ireland (this one may be insincere). They aren't killing people for the sake of killing people but to benefit their pockets. What is the motive of Islamic thugs who routinely get killed in their attacks?

It's not money, you don't need that if you're dead and you can't earn it their way if you believe you do anyway. If their motive is not religious, what is it?

McHrozni
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It isn t a single motive among perpetror, apparentely. My understanding is that some lash out against a society which they feel rejected them, some are not mentally stable enough for a motive to emerge, some want a "holy war" between christian and islam because they think it will bring the aoocalypse etc... there does not seem to be a single way to terrorism.
 
To give you a comoarison, think the difference between una bomber, or Those abortion bombing clinics, or even ALF.... you can t put all their motivation in the same bag, so what makes you think it would be the same for islamist terrorist ?
 
My condolences to the family and friends of those who died in this horrible tragedy.

Giz said:
Given that the largest recent survey showed:
.........
only one in three British Muslims (34%) would contact the police if they believed that somebody close to them had become involved with jihadists.
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That isn't on the cards.
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Let's go with the lower reported number of 30%. Your average 20-something wannabe jihadist has two parents. Each of them will not report that behaviour to the police with 70% probability. So neither parent will report it to the police with 49% probability, or, IOW, at least one of them will report it to the police with 51% probability. If we widen the scope to 10 close friends or family members, there's only a probability of 2.8% that none of them will report it to the police.

In conclusion, "isn't on the cards" is too facile a statement. Even a modest reporting rate of 30% will result in plenty of reports to the police.
 
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