UK General Election

The live debate went well for Corbyn as the DAILY MAIL went into apoplexy over the 'extreme left audience', who were actually vetted as a fair cross section.

The Tories are hated. Watch the audience reaction when Rudd affirms, 'Look at our record'.

This was a neutral audience and they killed themselves laughing at the irony of it.


May is losing popularity amongst the ageing voters, who are a large proportion of the electorate. Her refusing to commit to the triple lock on pensions and plan to introduce 'dementia' tax & refusing to say how much of inheritance it will take away from descendants is going to cost her. Youngsters don't bother voting in large numbers.

May thought she could take the electorate for granted and not bother showing up.
 
Vixen said:
The live debate went well for Corbyn as the DAILY MAIL went into apoplexy over the 'extreme left audience', who were actually vetted as a fair cross section.

The Tories are hated. Watch the audience reaction when Rudd affirms, 'Look at our record'.

This was a neutral audience and they killed themselves laughing at the irony of it.


May is losing popularity amongst the ageing voters, who are a large proportion of the electorate. Her refusing to commit to the triple lock on pensions and plan to introduce 'dementia' tax & refusing to say how much of inheritance it will take away from descendants is going to cost her. Youngsters don't bother voting in large numbers.

May thought she could take the electorate for granted and not bother showing up.
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If it was not for severe doubts about Corbyn...which one good debate performance will not cure...Labor might be looking at a outright win.
 
dudalb said:
If it was not for severe doubts about Corbyn...which one good debate performance will not cure...Labor might be looking at a outright win.
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It's becoming the unpalatable versus the unthinkable. Aka Hillary vs. Trump, round 2.
 
I have to say that I am a little surprised that Corbin's performance has been better than I expected, although I didn't expect much. May, on the other hand, seems to have squandered a massive lead against a field of non-entities.
 
Darat said:
Just so folks are clear, baron's claim that ".....not even deeming the subject worthy of a section in its manifesto...." was demonstrably false.

The actual section quoted from The Labour Manifesto, page 77
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I think the Tories' weak spot here is David Davis, Eurosceptic Minister for Brexit and known for his suspicion of anti-terrorism measures, when compared to Labour's promise to work with European security services.
 
angrysoba said:
I have to say that I am a little surprised that Corbin's performance has been better than I expected, although I didn't expect much. May, on the other hand, seems to have squandered a massive lead against a field of non-entities.
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That seems to pre-suppose that she herself is not a non-entity.

She hasn't exactly shone in the past year. Even her carefully chosen soundbites over Brexit have had people ridiculing her ("Red, white and blue Brexit", "Brexit means Brexit", etc).
 
Tolls said:
She hasn't exactly shone in the past year. Even her carefully chosen soundbites over Brexit have had people ridiculing her ("Red, white and blue Brexit", "Brexit means Brexit", etc).
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To be honest those two are rather easy to ridicule.

McHrozni
 
I must say I do wonder if Corbyn is genuinely stupid, as in of very low intelligence, as well as irresponsibly naive. This nonsense he's spouting about no deal being the worst deal of all and that he'd never walk away with no deal - is he mad? Of course no deal is a bad deal but you don't go into negotiations having informed the other side that you'll never leave the table without a deal! This is negotiation 101, a premise that anybody who has ever struck a deal or haggled well understands.

If you go to buy a car you don't say to the salesman, "I desperately want this car and of course I want a good deal, but I'm not going to leave without the car so any deal is better than none." You'd get taken to the cleaners. Instead you say, "I want this car but if you don't give me a good deal I'm walking out." Your number one leverage in the negotiation is the option of leaving the showroom without buying the car, FFS! It's like the nuclear deterrent question, it's not the pressing of the button that's the issue but the belief by the other parties that the button would be pressed in certain circumstances. Failure to understand these basic concepts, for a politician and leader, is not just naive but outright moronic.
 
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Thankfully Corbyn realises that we have to have a deal and the EU also knows this, being realistic and honest is not a fault. Even our Conservative ministers aren't silly enough to think that it is like haggling for a one off purchase of car! All of our politicians - whatever party - will enter into the exit negotiations knowing that.
 
Darat said:
Thankfully Corbyn realises that we have to have a deal and the EU also knows this, being realistic and honest is not a fault. Even our Conservative ministers aren't silly enough to think that it is like haggling for a one off purchase of car! All of our politicians - whatever party - will enter into the exit negotiations knowing that.
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The EU know nothing of the sort. There is no compulsion for the UK to accept a deal and nothing to stop us walking away. Unless, of course, the leader of UK negotiations throws away the chief bargaining tool in a bid to make the naive electorate believe he's oh so honest.
 
Darat said:
Just so folks are clear, baron's claim that ".....not even deeming the subject worthy of a section in its manifesto...." was demonstrably false.

The actual section quoted from The Labour Manifesto, page 77
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It wasn't a section. It was a sub section. And it wasn't about terrorism, it was about anti terrorism. :) So you can't lay a finger on Baron. He was telling the exact truth. He's in the clear, right? What does anti mean? It means opposite, doesn't it?

So if you understood Baron to mean "there is no mention of terrorism in the Labour manifesto", then he didn't say that, did he? He never used these words, did he?

So your misunderstanding is your own fault, not Baron's.:D
 
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baron said:
The EU know nothing of the sort. There is no compulsion for the UK to accept a deal and nothing to stop us walking away. Unless, of course, the leader of UK negotiations throws away the chief bargaining tool in a bid to make the naive electorate believe he's oh so honest.
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It's not much of a bargaining tool if the result of walking away is worse than any deal we are likely to get from the EU.

That's the point.
 
Tolls said:
It's not much of a bargaining tool if the result of walking away is worse than any deal we are likely to get from the EU.

That's the point.
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It's not the point, it's irrelevant. I've explained the benefits of using a standard negotiating techniques in these talks, so maybe you or someone else can explain the benefit in announcing that we will on no account leave negotiations without a deal (aside from a ploy for Labour to get votes from the naive element of the electorate).
 
Because it's an acknowledgement of the reality of the situation?

It's not like buying a car.
Well, unless the "no deal" option was setting yourself on fire...
 
Tolls said:
Because it's an acknowledgement of the reality of the situation?

It's not like buying a car.
Well, unless the "no deal" option was setting yourself on fire...
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I like that.

"Sell me the car for the money I want or I'll set myself on fire right here and my immolation might just cause some of your stock to become covered in soot"

That just about covers the leaving the EU argument and the strength of the UKs bargaining position.
 
Tolls said:
Because it's an acknowledgement of the reality of the situation?

It's not like buying a car.
Well, unless the "no deal" option was setting yourself on fire...
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I asked what benefits it has.
 
The benefit is that it shows a certain willingness to deal and not be an arse about it.
This does not have to be the confrontational negotiation that May has been pushing, for local consumption.

The EU wants a deal as well, you know.
 
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