JFK Conspiracy Theories IV: The One With The Whales

[No Other]

The rifle bearing the serial number C2766 was measured and determined to be 40.2 inches. That was the rifle now in the archives. That was the rifle found in the Depository. That was the one the FBI was interested in and inquired at Klein's about. That is the one Waldman researched. And that's the one Klein's received and subsequently shipped to Oswald's PO Box 2915, Dallas, Texas.

Please provide the data that shows the rifle bearing the serial number C2766 was measured to be 40.2" by Klein's. thank you

 

[pgwenthold]

Still with all your cut and paste efforts, you FAIL to show that a 40" was replaced as the rifle that was shipped instead of the one that ordered... plain and simple. All you have shown is that a rifle with the serial number C2766 was shipped to the PO Box. That is all you have shown.

And that a rifle with serial number C2766 was found at the scene of the crime, with Oswald's fingerprints on it.

I don't understand where you are going with this. Oswald ordered a 36" rifle, was sent a 40" rifle. He apparently didn't complain, and he didn't return it. Somehow, that 40" rifle shipped to his POBox ended up in the 6th floor of the SBD. Oswald's rifle in the Paine garage was missing, and he was seen bringing a package to work (he claimed them to be curtain rods, but no one saw inside it).

What difference does it make that he ordered a 36" rifle? That's not what they sent him, for reasons discussed (they had switched by the time they got his order and so sent him the currently advertised version). It was still his rifle, and he still used it to shoot the President.

 

[No Other]

Hilarious. "Hidell" ordered the rifle?

You mean this Hidell?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-c0WPbzMqVMk/Ut2sJ8pBOcI/AAAAAAAAxsI/MIubuBInlVg/s1600/CE795.png

Hidell was a known alias of Oswald. He used it multiple times and even listed it as a person to receive mail on another PO Box Oswald opened in Dallas.
http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/n...-box-the-box-users-are-as-picture-id576878048

In a previous post I gave you the benefit of the doubt regarding the PO Box having Hidell as a person who could receive items. The PO Box reference your post is for PO Box 30061; the PO Box the rifle was delivered to was PO Box 2915. Your link does not address how Hidell was able to pick up packages at PO Box 2915 (where the rifle shipped).

 

[abaddon]

In a previous post I gave you the benefit of the doubt regarding the PO Box having Hidell as a person who could receive items. The PO Box reference your post is for PO Box 30061; the PO Box the rifle was delivered to was PO Box 2915. Your link does not address how Hidell was able to pick up packages at PO Box 2915 (where the rifle shipped).

What? You seriously find that puzzling?

Sent from my SM-A300FU using Tapatalk

 

[No Other]

And that a rifle with serial number C2766 was found at the scene of the crime, with Oswald's fingerprints on it.

I don't understand where you are going with this. Oswald ordered a 36" rifle, was sent a 40" rifle. He apparently didn't complain, and he didn't return it.(you need to show proof that a 40" rifle was sent by Klein's as a substitute for the 36" rifle) Somehow, that 40" rifle shipped to his POBox (provide documentation that a 40" rifle was shipped to PO Box 2915)ended up in the 6th floor of the SBD. Oswald's rifle in the Paine garage was missing, and he was seen bringing a package to work (he claimed them to be curtain rods, but no one saw inside it).(LHO never claimed that they were curtain rods, curtain rods is what Buell Frazier said)

What difference does it make that he ordered a 36" rifle? That's not what they sent him, for reasons discussed (they had switched by the time they got his order and so sent him the currently advertised version)(you are incorrect, the ad ran in April and the product was shipped in March does not matter as the product shipped shows it being a 36" rifle). It was still his rifle, and he still used it to shoot the President(you have to show it was his rifle).

What you stated is strictly conjecture; if Klein's switched the rifles, then show the paperwork that states that event. There was no testimony to the switching of rifles, nobody said they ran out and provided "Hidell" with a different rifle than what was ordered. The only ones saying this are the people who support the Lone Gunman Theory.

 

[No Other]

What? You seriously find that puzzling?/QUOTE]Find what puzzling, that Hank posted the wrong PO Box or something else?

 

[Tomtomkent]

Please provide the data that shows the rifle bearing the serial number C2766 was measured to be 40.2" by Klein's. thank you

Why would they have measured it?
They were shipping one model to an order number, Oswald ordered from an old advert, their records show they were shipped a model from a longer batch. Why would they measure it? They would note the model, and if asked would find paperwork to show it was of a model with a 40.2 inch specification. There would be no need to measure individual rifles.

And what difference, in practical terms does it make?
You can't say "AHA! There is no evidence this rifle was ever in Oswald's hands, and was not his!" because obviously, there are still his finger prints, his palm prints, and those photographs he had taken of himself holding the murder weapon.

At best, you can prove he owned a shorter rifle, AS WELL.

 

[pgwenthold]

What you stated is strictly conjecture; if Klein's switched the rifles, then show the paperwork that states that event. There was no testimony to the switching of rifles, nobody said they ran out and provided "Hidell" with a different rifle than what was ordered. The only ones saying this are the people who support the Lone Gunman Theory.

Start here

.(you need to show proof that a 40" rifle was sent by Klein's as a substitute for the 36" rifle

We have the rifle sent by Klein's, serial number C2766. It is 40" long. If he ordered a 36" rifle, then the 40" rifle sent is, by definition, a substitute.

Seriously, what are you saying? Read the testimony above

Mr. BELIN. And on the microfilm record, would you please state who it shows this particular rifle was shipped
Mr. WALDMAN. Shipped to a Mr. A.--last name H-i-d-e-l-l, Post Office Box 2915, Dallas, Tex.
Mr. BELIN. And does it show arts' serial number or control number?
Mr. WALDMAN. It shows shipment of a rifle bearing our control number VC-836 and serial number C-2766.

Waldman testifies that the rifle with serial number C2766 was sent to his POBox. That rifle, in custody, is 40" long. Therefore, we know that Klein's sent him a 40" long rifle. And we know he got it, because his fingerprints are on it.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Still with all your cut and paste efforts, you FAIL to show that a 40" was replaced as the rifle that was shipped instead of the one that ordered... plain and simple. All you have shown is that a rifle with the serial number C2766 was shipped to the PO Box. That is all you have shown.

And why do companies use such serial numbers?
Given this is also the number on the rifle in evidence, what do you think we can reasonably conclude from this, until you provide evidence of another rifle with that unique serial number?

 

[bknight]

What? You seriously find that puzzling?

Find what puzzling, that Hank posted the wrong PO Box or something else?

FTFY, The PO Box 2915 was rented by LHO, just because Hank may have posted an incorrect number does not mean his intention was to show that LHO received the rifle used in the assignation, quit quibbling over nonsense.

 

[No Other]

FTFY, The PO Box 2915 was rented by LHO, just because Hank may have posted an incorrect number does not mean his intention was to show that LHO received the rifle used in the assignation, quit quibbling over nonsense.

This is not quibbling, it is at the heart of ownership of the assassination weapon. Hank, posted this thinking it showed that multiple people had access to the PO Box to where the assassination weapon was shipped... at least that was what I requested. Maybe Hank made an entry error but nonetheless it does not prove that the 40" weapon was shipped or picked up at PO Box 2915.

 

[No Other]

And why do companies use such serial numbers?
Given this is also the number on the rifle in evidence, what do you think we can reasonably conclude from this, until you provide evidence of another rifle with that unique serial number?

Actually No, since the original documents show that a 36" rifle was assigned this serial number, the the burden of proof is on Hank and others who say it should be on the 40".

 

[pgwenthold]

This is not quibbling, it is at the heart of ownership of the assassination weapon. Hank, posted this thinking it showed that multiple people had access to the PO Box to where the assassination weapon was shipped... at least that was what I requested. Maybe Hank made an entry error but nonetheless it does not prove that the 40" weapon was shipped or picked up at PO Box 2915.

Waldman testified the rifle was sent to POBox 2915. Oswald's fingerprints are on it, so we know he got. Either he picked it up or someone else did and gave it to him. Do you have any evidence that someone other than Oswald picked up the rifle?

 

[No Other]

Start here

???

We have the rifle sent by Klein's, serial number C2766. It is 40" long. If he ordered a 36" rifle, then the 40" rifle sent is, by definition, a substitute.

Not by definition...by Inference.

Seriously, what are you saying? Read the testimony above

???

Waldman testifies that the rifle with serial number C2766 was sent to his POBox. That rifle, in custody, is 40" long. Therefore, we know that Klein's sent him a 40" long rifle. And we know he got it, because his fingerprints are on it.

The internal Klein form and the order form that LHO filled out refers to a 36" rifle; nowhere is there any reference to a 40" rifle. If you are positive that Klein's sent the 40" rifle, then you have the documentation to support this... so please share that with us.

 

[No Other]

Waldman testified the rifle was sent to POBox 2915. Oswald's fingerprints are on it, so we know he got(fingerprints can prove that he handled the rifle, the fingerprints do not prove the 40" rifle was sent to the PO Box). Either he picked it up or someone else did and gave it to him. Do you have any evidence that someone other than Oswald picked up the rifle?

Argument from Ignorance... The burden is not on me, to prove someone else picked it up, it is up to you to prove that Klein's sent a 40" rifle to LHO/Hidell.

 

[pgwenthold]

???



Not by definition...by Inference.

.

Oh, are you saying they also sent a 36" rifle? Got evidence of that?

Because if they sent a 40" rifle and did not send a 36" rifle, the 40" rifle is, again by definition, a substitute.

 

[Tomtomkent]

Actually No, since the original documents show that a 36" rifle was assigned this serial number, the the burden of proof is on Hank and others who say it should be on the 40".

"No" does not answer the questions I asked.
Care to try again?
But for what it is worth, the contention would be that the rifle with the unique trackable numbers is the rifle dispatched. We could consider (were it not for the issue you raised already been shown beyond a burden of proof) "admin error over the exact length of rifle" as a possible outcome.

More possible than: "It is another rifle that happens to have the same unique numbers".

But here is your chance. Why don't you posit a better theory here and now for how a rifle with those same unique numbers ended up in the sniper's nest, with Oswald's prints over them.

 

[Tomtomkent]

I still want answers:

Why would they have measured it?
They were shipping one model to an order number, Oswald ordered from an old advert, their records show they were shipped a model from a longer batch. Why would they measure it? They would note the model, and if asked would find paperwork to show it was of a model with a 40.2 inch specification. There would be no need to measure individual rifles.

And what difference, in practical terms does it make?
You can't say "AHA! There is no evidence this rifle was ever in Oswald's hands, and was not his!" because obviously, there are still his finger prints, his palm prints, and those photographs he had taken of himself holding the murder weapon.

At best, you can prove he owned a shorter rifle, AS WELL.

 

[bknight]

... but nonetheless it does not prove that the 40" weapon was shipped or picked up at PO Box 2915.

And what information available in 1963 would prove that to your satisfaction?

 

[pgwenthold]

Argument from Ignorance... The burden is not on me, to prove someone else picked it up, it is up to you to prove that Klein's sent a 40" rifle to LHO/Hidell.

Other than Waldman's testimony, what would you accept?

Mr. BELIN. And on the microfilm record, would you please state who it shows this particular rifle was shipped
Mr. WALDMAN. Shipped to a Mr. A.--last name H-i-d-e-l-l, Post Office Box 2915, Dallas, Tex. Mr. BELIN. And does it show arts' serial number or control number?
Mr. WALDMAN. It shows shipment of a rifle bearing our control number VC-836 and serial number C-2766.

What's missing? The rifle with serial number c2766 was shipped to Oswald's PO Box. It says it right there in the testimony. A photograph of the record referred to is in the Warren report, isn't it, Hank?