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The Trump Presidency

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logger said:
That you would think removing a sitting president from office would be great, pretty much kills anything else you posted. It's not great, especially over stupid things like this.
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Stupid things like this?

There is growing and significant evidence that Trump and/or his surrogates colluded with Russia to influence the outcome of a presidential election.

He just fired the guy that was leading the main investigation into that.

This is not just some stupid thing, this boils down to subverting the course of justice. You either fire Comey as soon as you get into office (which is what should have happened) or you fire him once the investigation is concluded and you are exonerated.

Trump wants the Russia story to go away, maybe he has stuff to hide, maybe he doesn't, but you don't make the story go away by interfering in the course of an active investigation. That Trump can't grasp that and woefully underestimated the uproar it would cause is yet another pointer (as if more were needed) that he's a clueless idiot.

Democracy is supposed to be sacrosanct. The system whereby each citizen gets one vote and collectively chooses their leaders should be beyond reproach. Whatever the flaws the process has (and there are many) outside interference in that process is a huge no no. It's a BIG thing. Evenmoreso with that outside party being Russia in this case.

Whatever other stupid stuff Trump has done thus far (and take your pick, there's plenty to choose from) this is the biggest issue facing his WhiteHouse. If there is any truth to the allegations that his team colluded with Russia to influence the election then he is very likely to be ousted over it.

Removing any elected head of state is a serious thing and should not be undertaken lightly. With every day that passes Trump adds more weight to the argument that he ought to be removed from office for being corrupt and clueless. Watching him self destruct would be a lot more entertaining if he didn't have nuclear launch codes.
 
Meadmaker said:
Trump was very good at turning mountains into molehills during the campaign...
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Your attribution is incorrect, in my opinion; it was't Trump that was good at this, it was his supporters.

ETA: In other words, it may be that the folks who supported Trump were far more accepting of ethically questionable behavior by their candidate than the folks who were considering Hillary.
 
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Cl1mh4224rd said:
Your attribution is incorrect, in my opinion; it was't Trump that was good at this, it was his supporters.

ETA: In other words, it may be that the folks who supported Trump were far more accepting of ethically questionable behavior by their candidate than the folks who were considering Hillary.
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May be? You're being generous.
 
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logger said:
That you would think removing a sitting president from office would be great, pretty much kills anything else you posted. It's not great, especially over stupid things like this. Of course this is the left, this is what they're about. Another reason it's so much fun defeating your side.
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It's not as if you can be loyal to Trump and the country. Why wouldn't we want to remove The Hair from office?
 
logger said:
That you would think removing a sitting president from office would be great, pretty much kills anything else you posted. It's not great, especially over stupid things like this. Of course this is the left, this is what they're about. Another reason it's so much fun defeating your side.
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Well then there's no point in engaging in a dialog, is there?

Of course, dialog doesn't really seem to be your style.
 
The Great Zaganza said:
You are wrong: it's a great sign of a working Democracy if even the person in the highest office can be held accountable.
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Man, this is deja vu. You have no idea (or maybe you do) just how much these arguments were made about Nixon. It just goes to show you that if you live long enough you're bound to see it happen again.
 
I read the interview that Trump did with The Economist. I shouldn't have been, but I was again shocked at how stunningly unfit Trump is for office. Trump is simply clueless about the issues the reporter asked about. Trump's answers were just nonsense.
I was no fan of Reagan or the Bushes, but I never felt that they were totally unfit to be POTUS. Trump's ineptitude is dangerous. His administration doesn't seem able to present any kind of coherent policy on normal issues that they have to deal with. It is frightening to ponder how they will deal with an emergency that requires concise and well-measured responses. It's one thing when Trump is tripping over himself on domestic issues, but his lack of intellect could get lots of people killed if an international crisis erupts. Hopefully, Mattis has enough pull to stop something crazy from happening.
Stupid is stupid, regardless if it has an R or a D behind it. Personally, I find some statements that come from the far left, just as stupid as some things that Trump has said. Even the harshest critic of Obama couldn't reasonably assert that he was uneducated or intellectually bereft. I think it is reasonable to make that claim about Trump.
I have never thought that the POTUS always has to be the smartest person in the room, every time. That would be impossible because of al of the different issues that have to be dealt with. What a POTUS must be able to do is to understand and evaluate the information that those smarter than him about a particular issue provide.
What America seems to have is the dumbest guy in the room, every time. Worse, it's a guy that seems to think he really is the smartest guy in the room. Trump also seems unable to properly digest information he's given. There has to be experts providing data and analysis to the White House. Does Trump simply ignore it, or is he simply too dumb to understand it? I think a little of both. The Economist is highly regarded and read all over the world. Trump and his team had a real chance to present cogent, well-prepared responses. Trump goes off on the phrase "priming the pump"? Are you serious?
Again, politics aside, the man is a dolt.
 
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FenerFan said:
I was no fan of Reagan or the Bushes, but I never felt that they were totally unfit to be POTUS...
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I hear ya. Bush2 made me wistful for Bush1 and Bob Dole, which I didn't think possible. Trump makes me wistful for Bush2, ye gads.
 
Cl1mh4224rd said:
Your attribution is incorrect, in my opinion; it was't Trump that was good at this, it was his supporters.

ETA: In other words, it may be that the folks who supported Trump were far more accepting of ethically questionable behavior by their candidate than the folks who were considering Hillary.
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I'd argue that the media was good at underplaying the clearly serious problems as well. m I'm not sure what, exactly, Clinton was supposed to do when every media outlet was hellbent on giving Toupee Fiasco free airtime to rant and rave, refused to cover her rallies, and blather endlessly about her various non-scandals.

It's worth noting that, in every debate, she not only showed a strong grasp of nearly every topic thrown her way, she also managed to troll Fiasco into a tantrum that would last for days. In other words, she showed that she was the most qualified candidate in my lifetime, and that Trump was not unfit because of his ignorance, but because of his fundamental temperament - which, a large part of why his so-far disastrous presidency was so easy to predict.

I will say, though, that it's a source of grim amusement that the same outlets who covered him yelling about how awful the press is, are suddenly shocked to discover that he doesn't care for them.
 
Ambrosia said:
This is not just some stupid thing, this boils down to subverting the course of justice. You either fire Comey as soon as you get into office (which is what should have happened) or you fire him once the investigation is concluded and you are exonerated.
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There is a third option that would have made it look a lot less suspicious: firing without immediate termination.
"We need you to be gone in a month." says "You are not doing a very good job, we need to find someone else."
"We need you to be gone in a week" says "You are doing a pisspoor job and we need to get rid of you very quickly."

"You are hereby terminated and removed from office, effective immediately" will just cause people to wonder "why does he need to go right now?" and justifying it with something that happened half a year earlier won't convince anyone that's the real reason. Even if it wasn't something they were cheering for at the time.
 
FenerFan said:
I read the interview that Trump did with The Economist. I shouldn't have been, but I was again shocked at how stunningly unfit Trump is for office. Trump is simply clueless about the issues the reporter asked about. Trump's answers were just nonsense.
I was no fan of Reagan or the Bushes, but I never felt that they were totally unfit to be POTUS. Trump's ineptitude is dangerous. His administration doesn't seem able to present any kind of coherent policy on normal issues that they have to deal with. It is frightening to ponder how they will deal with an emergency that requires concise and well-measured responses. It's one thing when Trump is tripping over himself on domestic issues, but his lack of intellect could get lots of people killed if an international crisis erupts. Hopefully, Mattis has enough pull to stop something crazy from happening.
Stupid is stupid, regardless if it has an R or a D behind it. Personally, I find some statements that come from the far left, just as stupid as some things that Trump has said. Even the harshest critic of Obama couldn't reasonably assert that he was uneducated or intellectually bereft. I think it is reasonable to make that claim about Trump.
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There are stupid people on the left, right and center. As someone who is a little left of center I get frustrated and annoyed when people I generally agree with go over the edge and make obtuse hyperbolic statements. There are people on the far left and the far right that make me roll my eyes. Like the morons at Berkeley shutting down free speech. Or the liberal anarchists that seem to just want to tear it all down, which is kind of ironic considering that there are red neck gun toting racist conservatives who want to do the same thing. The conversation is dominated by partisan shallow voices. I hear it on right wing talk radio a lot. Thoughtful reasoned debate is so rare. Trump is an idiot and it isn't liberals that think that. There are considerable number of life long conservatives that think that way.

Trump appeals to people because he is simple, direct and doesn't mince words and doesn't shy away from a fight, in fact he likes to start them.

But that IS his problem. He is simple, not thoughtful. Totally lacking in depth. He's a ready, fire aim kind of guy. No self control at all. Can be baited by a tweet.
 
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Ambrosia said:
There is growing and significant evidence that Trump and/or his surrogates colluded with Russia to influence the outcome of a presidential election.
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Lol
No, just the opposite. Your first clue would be the duration this has gone with nothing.
 
acbytesla said:
Man, this is deja vu. You have no idea (or maybe you do) just how much these arguments were made about Nixon. It just goes to show you that if you live long enough you're bound to see it happen again.
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We've already seen it with Clinton and Obama. Both were much worse than Nixon or Trump.
 
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