Salt in diet is a sneaky thing

bigred

Penultimate Amazing
bigred
Joined
Jan 19, 2005
Messages
22,727
Location
USA
Not news to most I'm sure but even though I felt I was good about this, I took a look closer and realized not as good as I thought........and amazed how some things aren't as bad as you might think while others are sneaky bad.

eg:

Cheese. A single slice or comparable pieces of many (most?) cheeses are silly high in salt.

Chips: not as bad as you might think (and there are some low-salt varieties too) and proof that tasting really salty doesn't necessarily equate to being really salty.

Condiments: a lot of common condiments and sauces have more than you might think, and since you might not think of that when counting salt, can sneak up on you. Soy sauce and the like are downright hideous in this way.

Just some general food for thought. Something we all need to watch.
 
An Indian food market near my house sells MSG. I have been thinking of buying some.

Salt can do a bunch of different things in food. It can be preservative, by lowering the available moisture. It can make food taste salty.

But the hidden thing is that it can just enhance flavor - the high salt food does not always taste salty, it just tastes better.

MSG is also a flavor enhancer. The fears over its health effects were overblown. It can be used to replace salt in food.

Next time I am in that part of town, I'll get some.

That said, not everyone reacts to salt the same way. We get more than we need, but for most people it has no ill effect.
 
Usually the medical recommendation is to reduce sodium, not just salt. So substituting MSG (the S stands for sodium) doesn't help much.

A lot of sneaky sodium is often in baked goods, due to the use of baking soda and baking powder as well as actual salt. The bun in a fast food meal might have more sodium than the condiments or the fries (though it might not).
 
Myriad said:
Usually the medical recommendation is to reduce sodium, not just salt. So substituting MSG (the S stands for sodium) doesn't help much.
Click to expand...

My impression, however, is that a little bit of MSG can replace a lot of salt, and a teaspoon of MSG has a lot less sodium than a teaspoon of sodium chloride. "S" sand for Sodium, but the "M" stands for "Mono" - its got one sodium atom attached a big amino acid, rather than a relatively small chloride ion.

Maybe I can run the math in a hours on my lunch break. I'm not averse to getting corrected if I'm wrong.
 
Sounds right to me. As to the MSG problem, I had it before it was recognized as a thing:
fuzzy/prickly mildly to moderately painful back of the head and neck, feeling of excess warmth and vague discomfort, It was two - three years later that I started seeing reports of it and the descriptions agreed pretty much with each other. Last time I saw it was over 20 years ago with two younger persons (20's) at my favorite at the time Chinese restaurant!!! Which supposedly did not put MSG in the food .............
My suspicion is they did not add MSG but some ingredients were supplied with it as part of their production.
 
crescent said:
My impression, however, is that a little bit of MSG can replace a lot of salt, and a teaspoon of MSG has a lot less sodium than a teaspoon of sodium chloride. "S" sand for Sodium, but the "M" stands for "Mono" - its got one sodium atom attached a big amino acid, rather than a relatively small chloride ion.

Maybe I can run the math in a hours on my lunch break. I'm not averse to getting corrected if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...


You're not wrong. If you substitute equal amounts of MSG for NaCl, you'll definitely be reducing sodium noticeably.

If you actually try to stick to a medically recommended restricted daily sodium amount such as 1500 or 2000 mg per day (and I've done this, documenting every milligram, on behalf of one of the intellectually disabled residents I help care for, who also has a heart condition), it's surprisingly difficult. It pretty much requires home cooking from scratch two meals a day. Prepared packaged main-course foods will put you over in no time, as will most cheeses and lunch meats. And eating out is a nightmare. Does a Chicken Pesto Sandwich on Ciabatta Ficelle Bread from the Corner Bakery Cafe sound healthy? Maybe it is, but it's got 1780 milligrams of sodium, basically a whole day's allowance.

An "individual size" Numero Uno pizza from Uno's has 3300 milligrams. Of course it also has over 1800 calories so it should be just about your entire day's diet, but even then it's too much sodium.

Under those limits, even the reduced sodium from shaking an MSG mix (which is what most stores in the U.S. sell, under brand names like Accent) on your main dish instead of salt will probably require you to trade off something else that day. If it's an eighth of a teaspoon (0.5g) of Accent, for 80 milligrams of sodium, that's half slice of bread or a slice of low-sodium cheese, maybe, or one small cookie.

The normal RDA of 2300 milligrams isn't all that much more generous. Hardly anyone (in the U.S.) manages to stay close to that. But if you're shaking salt or adding teaspoon amounts to your cooking, using an MSG mix instead will indeed help.
 
But MSG doesn't cause your food to taste like you added salt. Many people love the taste of salt in their food, so they have to reach for NaCL because MSG doesn't give the desired flavor.

MSG doesn't taste like salt, it tastes like umami.
 
fuelair said:
Sounds right to me. As to the MSG problem, I had it before it was recognized as a thing:
fuzzy/prickly mildly to moderately painful back of the head and neck, feeling of excess warmth and vague discomfort, It was two - three years later that I started seeing reports of it and the descriptions agreed pretty much with each other. Last time I saw it was over 20 years ago with two younger persons (20's) at my favorite at the time Chinese restaurant!!! Which supposedly did not put MSG in the food .............
My suspicion is they did not add MSG but some ingredients were supplied with it as part of their production.
Click to expand...

I thought that was just urban legend and people being scared of "chemicals."

Does it happen with other foods high in glutamic acid, like mushrooms, seaweed, aged cheeses, tomatoes, etc.?
 
If I'm not mistaken, MSG should spontaneously form inside your mouth during chewing - as the glutamine in foods combines with the sodium in your saliva.

Adding additional crystal MSG only just supercharges what already happens on your tongue. But I'm not certain of what I just wrote.
 
Myriad said:
You're not wrong. If you substitute equal amounts of MSG for NaCl, you'll definitely be reducing sodium noticeably.

If you actually try to stick to a medically recommended restricted daily sodium amount such as 1500 or 2000 mg per day (and I've done this, documenting every milligram, on behalf of one of the intellectually disabled residents I help care for, who also has a heart condition), it's surprisingly difficult. It pretty much requires home cooking from scratch two meals a day. Prepared packaged main-course foods will put you over in no time, as will most cheeses and lunch meats. And eating out is a nightmare. Does a Chicken Pesto Sandwich on Ciabatta Ficelle Bread from the Corner Bakery Cafe sound healthy? Maybe it is, but it's got 1780 milligrams of sodium, basically a whole day's allowance.

An "individual size" Numero Uno pizza from Uno's has 3300 milligrams. Of course it also has over 1800 calories so it should be just about your entire day's diet, but even then it's too much sodium.

Under those limits, even the reduced sodium from shaking an MSG mix (which is what most stores in the U.S. sell, under brand names like Accent) on your main dish instead of salt will probably require you to trade off something else that day. If it's an eighth of a teaspoon (0.5g) of Accent, for 80 milligrams of sodium, that's half slice of bread or a slice of low-sodium cheese, maybe, or one small cookie.

The normal RDA of 2300 milligrams isn't all that much more generous. Hardly anyone (in the U.S.) manages to stay close to that. But if you're shaking salt or adding teaspoon amounts to your cooking, using an MSG mix instead will indeed help.
Click to expand...

My dad has to be on a low-sodium diet and has been for the past several months due to hypertension and a few other ailments.

My mom is luckily able to do all of the cooking at home, as eating out was always considered a treat rather than a given; my mom is an above-average cook who has experimented with diet and food recipes over the years and is very willing and able to cook low-sodium dishes, but I have to have my own personal salted butter and etc., when I am invited to eat.

I will mention the MSG to her for use in things like soups and other dishes that are large volume. She already uses low-sodium broths and lots of herbs and stuff, but it's hard to make them tasty without salt. A little salt always has to be added, so maybe the MSG would be the best solution.

He says he's now quite used to the 2000mg or less sodium per day and he can really get turned off of a "regular" food dish because, to him, the salt overpowers the flavors.
 
William Parcher said:
But MSG doesn't cause your food to taste like you added salt. Many people love the taste of salt in their food, so they have to reach for NaCL because MSG doesn't give the desired flavor.

MSG doesn't taste like salt, it tastes like umami.
Click to expand...


MSG mixes sold in U.S. markets (such as Accent) also include some salt.
 
bigred said:
Not news to most I'm sure but even though I felt I was good about this, I took a look closer and realized not as good as I thought........and amazed how some things aren't as bad as you might think while others are sneaky bad.

eg:

Cheese. A single slice or comparable pieces of many (most?) cheeses are silly high in salt.
Click to expand...


The common yokel makes terrible sandwiches. They need salt because food needs something that stimulates the taste receptors rather than just the nose. So manufactured cheese is high in salt because it's doing the work of salting your sandwich for you.

Potato chips serve this same purpose. Some companies' chips are too salty really to eat by themselves, and operate on the principle you're eating one with each bite of a pathetic sandwich that we, pathetic goofballs, slapped together out of random things.
 
bigred said:
Not news to most I'm sure but even though I felt I was good about this, I took a look closer and realized not as good as I thought........and amazed how some things aren't as bad as you might think while others are sneaky bad.

eg:

Cheese. A single slice or comparable pieces of many (most?) cheeses are silly high in salt.

Chips: not as bad as you might think (and there are some low-salt varieties too) and proof that tasting really salty doesn't necessarily equate to being really salty.

Condiments: a lot of common condiments and sauces have more than you might think, and since you might not think of that when counting salt, can sneak up on you. Soy sauce and the like are downright hideous in this way.

Just some general food for thought. Something we all need to watch.
Click to expand...


Look out for breakfast cereal and soups, salad dressing as well, most pre-prepared foods as well
I am salt sensitive myself.
 
rustypouch said:
I thought that was just urban legend and people being scared of "chemicals."

Does it happen with other foods high in glutamic acid, like mushrooms, seaweed, aged cheeses, tomatoes, etc.?
Click to expand...

Might work IF I was scared of chemicals. But I am not remotely , taught and did chemistry a lot and do not trust people who do not realize we are all chemical and everything we eat is chemicals. Some are bad for us (poisons, radioactive ones uncontrolled, acids and bases that are strong)!!!!! But.......
 
fuelair said:
Might work IF I was scared of chemicals. But I am not remotely , taught and did chemistry a lot and do not trust people who do not realize we are all chemical and everything we eat is chemicals. Some are bad for us (poisons, radioactive ones uncontrolled, acids and bases that are strong)!!!!! But.......
Click to expand...
That was a complete non-answer.
 
rustypouch said:
That was a complete non-answer.
Click to expand...

Not really, the question asked was a response to my statement that I had had the MSG syndrome prior to it's becoming known to any extent, then widely. My response was pointing out that I had no reason to have fallen for the "it's purely fake" Or that I was initially reacting to the widespread thing about it.

Neither was the actual case as brought up.
 
I stopped adding salt at the table and when cooking years ago, it took a few weeks to get used to it but then it was fine.

Then there are the autocondimenters (I believe the term was coined by Terry Pratchett) - people who add salt to whatever is put in front of them without even tasting it first to see if it needs it. I've seen people doing it when eating in good restaurants, which seems an insult to the chef. I'm sure if he/she thought it needed more seasoning they would have added it, I'll defer to their expertise on the matter and eat the dish they prepared as they intended it to be eaten.
 
Pixel42 said:
I stopped adding salt at the table and when cooking years ago, it took a few weeks to get used to it but then it was fine.

Then there are the autocondimenters (I believe the term was coined by Terry Pratchett) - people who add salt to whatever is put in front of them without even tasting it first to see if it needs it. I've seen people doing it when eating in good restaurants, which seems an insult to the chef. I'm sure if he/she thought it needed more seasoning they would have added it, I'll defer to their expertise on the matter and eat the dish they prepared as they intended it to be eaten.
Click to expand...

The restaurant world seems split on this question. Some chefs, Marco Pierre White famously was one, go absolutely ballistic if a diner asks for salt or pepper. Others take a view that as everyone has different tastes, it's a bit presumptuous of the chef to dictate matters. Heck watching Masterchef recently, even chefs and critics disagree about whether something is under/over seasoned.

A friend who trained as a chef says that the reason why high end restaurant food tastes good is the high level of salt and butter compared to home cooks. Personally I tend to find restaurant food over-salted and under-peppered but that's just me.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom