"One cannot be racist against mexican..."

[BobTheCoward]

I guess you missed all the racist stereotypes he's spewed about black communities.

I don't know who "he" is, logger, Trump, Alex Jones?

You can be racist and not have every opinion in your life driven by racism. That isn't proof the birtherism was driven by racism.

 

[TraneWreck]

Aside from the fact that we have to compete against illegal labor, citizens of this country don't like people breaking our laws, simple as that. Has nothing to do with your fantasy land opinion about brown people.

This is not a reason, this is more untethered bias.

I do love that you've totally failed to establish anything resembling a problem, so you fall back on "it's the law." Right, that's the point at issue - is that law good and meaningful?

Because you can't catch the clue, crossing our border without the proper papers is illegal?

Marijuana possession is illegal. That's a bad policy and change is occurring all over the country. Same thing here. Again, just citing the fact that it's against the law is not an argument for it remaining illegal.

And, then, of course, net crossing of the Mexican border has been close to zero for a few years now.

Establish the problem. You can't do it, it's incredible.

Ruining the place? Who says that, you're truly not in reality!

The guy you voted for does:

"When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. ... They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people..."

You, in fact, are saying the same thing - it's about crime (despite there being no evidence of any unique problem from that group).

I couldn't care less what you "believe", we've already established your in fantasy land. A person like you who sees a racist around every corner would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad!

This is just sad projection.

The data shows the connection between Trump support and racial resentment. You, yourself, time and time again have displayed the more mild instantiations of that resentment. You have failed time and time again to establish your case with anything but silly assertions, and when pressed, you start babbling about "crime," which has been a classic rhetorical position of racists throughout the history of this country.

If you want to convince us that you and Trump voters are not merely expressing racial resentment when whining about immigration, you are doing a very poor job of it.

Only a racist would be concerned about the diversity of the ICE jails. Normal people just want our borders secure.

And....point missed.

When ICE goes around grabbing people, how are they making their decisions about who to stop? They tend to be drawn to certain physical characteristics.

Please do list those hidden racist notions? I need a good laugh!

The desperate, nervous laughter of someone realizing how poorly they've performed.

When the only way you can defend your fetishization of the immigration issue is by rambling about crime, it's completely clear what you're doing: whether consciously or not, you have plugged yourself into the propaganda coming from very racist outlets using the issue of crime to dog-whistle.

About 12 million problems? You do realize we don't have open borders?

This is a sad, circular argument:

Challenge: Factually establish damage done by undocumented immigrants in the United States.

Response: It's obvious, they're undocumented.

What's the problem with being an undocumented person in the United States? As a hypothetical, try and explain what would be the damage done if we completely opened the borders to all comers.

Since I know this will confuse you, I am not for open borders. I have arguments and explanation for this position. I'm curious if you can provide the same for yours.

 

[TraneWreck]

I don't know who "he" is, logger, Trump, Alex Jones?

You can be racist and not have every opinion in your life driven by racism. That isn't proof the birtherism was driven by racism.

This is one of those cases where there is no point in talking to you until you explain what burden of proof you will accept. I'm happy to provide you a wealth of evidence linking birtherism to racism, including the very reasoning behind the position as well as survey data about the individuals who were inclined to doubt the citizenship of the first black president, but I won't waste my time if it's going to be one of these conversations where you refuse to accept anything that isn't a mathematical or logical proof.

The link between birtherism and racism is one of empiricism, not logic, and if you demand the latter standard, there's no point in moving forward.

 

[WilliamSeger]

I don't know who "he" is, logger, Trump, Alex Jones?

You can be racist and not have every opinion in your life driven by racism. That isn't proof the birtherism was driven by racism.

Yeah, right, and Trump's full page ads calling for the death sentence for the Central Park Five isn't "proof" of racism, either.

 

[fuelair]

It's like raping a 15 year old and objecting to the term pedophile. Yes, in a pedantic sort of way you are correct in trying to avoid this stigma, but it does not address the problem.

But the act will still make you a target. Which, of course it should. A big, easy to hit target.

 

[fuelair]

You have a similar dance with xenophobia if you have to parse out which nation is of concern. I'm not even clear that Mexican-hating doesn't include Guatemala and points south as "understood." I've always assumed someone who dislikes Mexicans doesn't do so based on nationality, but some imagined ethnicity.

How about "ethnophobic"?

Actually, I don't think the "phobia" part is warranted. Do they really fear these folks or is it more like thinking them sub-human or even hateworthy?

I like ******** for the hater group(s) as it is so universal!!!!!

 

[fuelair]

I thought that, strictly speaking, paedophilia only applied to people who are sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children.

Hebephiles OTOH are attracted to adolescents

Ehebophiles are attracted to young, sexually mature, people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebephilia

If that's the case the person is, strictly speaking, not a paedophile and is instead a hebephile or ehebophile.

Correct, which is why I prefer the simpler and more functional term target!!!!!
If they are active. If not active they can dream on.

 

[fuelair]

Much like one can't be racist against Jews, because Judaism is a religion, not a race.

Much like it, and just as nonsensical.

Unfortunately many people consider it a race and will freely tell you how to identify Jews. Oddly, the methods they describe seem to also apply to a large number of people inhabiting the middle east now or ancestrally yet have no functional relation to Judaism.......

Life is so interesting!!!

 

[BobTheCoward]

This is one of those cases where there is no point in talking to you until you explain what burden of proof you will accept. I'm happy to provide you a wealth of evidence linking birtherism to racism, including the very reasoning behind the position as well as survey data about the individuals who were inclined to doubt the citizenship of the first black president, but I won't waste my time if it's going to be one of these conversations where you refuse to accept anything that isn't a mathematical or logical proof.

The link between birtherism and racism is one of empiricism, not logic, and if you demand the latter standard, there's no point in moving forward.

Correct, I demand the latter. My first guess is it would take some sort of recorded statement by a major birther advocate that their primary reason to suspect Obama wasn't born in the US was because of his race.


Unless the empirical studies linking racism and birthirism addressed the correlation vs causation issue. Then we are on to something.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Yeah, right, and Trump's full page ads calling for the death sentence for the Central Park Five isn't "proof" of racism, either.

Nope.

 

[Mumbles]

Yeah, right, and Trump's full page ads calling for the death sentence for the Central Park Five isn't "proof" of racism, either.

As well as his continued insistence in their guilt, despite:

A complete lack of evidence linking the five then-teens to the crime,

A confession from a serial rapist, and

DNA evidence matching the confessed rapist to the crime.

And then there was his reluctance to reject David Duke and the KKK, his retweeting of false crime statistics stating that the majority of white murder victims were attacked by black people, his hiring of plain bigots like Carl Palatino and Steve Bannon, his repeated use of racial stereotypes over the decades before he ran for president, his absurd depiction of every black neighborhood as some sort of Mad Max hellscape, his use of "Law and Order" rhetoric, his bringing in segregationist Jeff Sessions as Attorney General...

Really, the guys a plain as day white supremacist - the most obvious in presidential politics since George Wallace.

 

[BobTheCoward]

As well as his continued insistence in their guilt, despite:

A complete lack of evidence linking the five then-teens to the crime,

A confession from a serial rapist, and

DNA evidence matching the confessed rapist to the crime.

And then there was his reluctance to reject David Duke and the KKK, his retweeting of false crime statistics stating that the majority of white murder victims were attacked by black people, his hiring of plain bigots like Carl Palatino and Steve Bannon, his repeated use of racial stereotypes over the decades before he ran for president, his absurd depiction of every black neighborhood as some sort of Mad Max hellscape, his use of "Law and Order" rhetoric, his bringing in segregationist Jeff Sessions as Attorney General...

Really, the guys a plain as day white supremacist - the most obvious in presidential politics since George Wallace.

But the question wasn't "is Trump racist?"

 

[WilliamSeger]

Correct, I demand the latter. My first guess is it would take some sort of recorded statement by a major birther advocate that their primary reason to suspect Obama wasn't born in the US was because of his race.


Unless the empirical studies linking racism and birthirism addressed the correlation vs causation issue. Then we are on to something.

Baloney. When it comes to Trump's objectively racist behavior, the distinction between correlation and causation is of no significance whatsoever except to sycophants and apologists.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Baloney. When it comes to Trump's objectively racist behavior, the distinction between correlation and causation is of no significance whatsoever except to sycophants and apologists.

It only matters if someone makes a causal argument. "Driven by racism" is a claim about the cause.

 

[WilliamSeger]

It only matters if someone makes a causal argument. "Driven by racism" is a claim about the cause.

Most people understand that claims about the "cause" of any human behavior is, at best, an informed opinion. Even if Trump said he was a racist, he could be lying or just confused about his own motivations. In the end, racist is as racist does.

 

[TraneWreck]

Correct, I demand the latter. My first guess is it would take some sort of recorded statement by a major birther advocate that their primary reason to suspect Obama wasn't born in the US was because of his race.

So, not only do you demand an impossible burden, but now it has to be the "primary" reason, whatever that means.

Unless the empirical studies linking racism and birthirism addressed the correlation vs causation issue. Then we are on to something.

This is a very clever way to never have to deal with reality.

 

[Mumbles]

But the question wasn't "is Trump racist?"

Yes, but the point is that the bizarre conspiracy theory about Obama's birthplace, along with the accompanying "show me your papers" BS is simply one example of his racism.

 

[logger]

This is not a reason, this is more untethered bias.

Not to people experiencing it, [SNIP].

I do love that you've totally failed to establish anything resembling a problem, so you fall back on "it's the law." Right, that's the point at issue - is that law good and meaningful?

[SNIP]

Marijuana possession is illegal. That's a bad policy and change is occurring all over the country. Same thing here. Again, just citing the fact that it's against the law is not an argument for it remaining illegal.

And, then, of course, net crossing of the Mexican border has been close to zero for a few years now.

You're for open borders, just say it. [SNIP]

Establish the problem. You can't do it, it's incredible.

[SNIP]

The guy you voted for does:

Yes because as a builder he sees the many problems of people working here illegally. [SNIP]

You, in fact, are saying the same thing - it's about crime (despite there being no evidence of any unique problem from that group).

Really, breaking the law to get here doesn't give you a clue to illegals breaking more laws. How about the gangs? How many times have I read where an illegal got caught driving drunk? Or raping, murdering? Yes I know you'll say the statistics are so small, it doesn't even compare with our usual criminals.

This is just sad projection.

The data shows the connection between Trump support and racial resentment. You, yourself, time and time again have displayed the more mild instantiations of that resentment. You have failed time and time again to establish your case with anything but silly assertions, and when pressed, you start babbling about "crime," which has been a classic rhetorical position of racists throughout the history of this country.

Your data is from leftist liberal rags. It means absolutely nothing.

If you want to convince us that you and Trump voters are not merely expressing racial resentment when whining about immigration, you are doing a very poor job of it.

[SNIP] You would think with people being so racist about this you would have mountains of evidence of people saying racist comments, but you don't, you have people talking about securing the border, nothing else. [SNIP]

And....point missed.

No, making another point on top,of your ridiculous one.

When ICE goes around grabbing people, how are they making their decisions about who to stop? They tend to be drawn to certain physical characteristics.

By many ways, why don't you go and ask them? Maybe they'll tell you they start by stopping little old white ladies.

The desperate, nervous laughter of someone realizing how poorly they've performed.

Lol
A typical dodge, go ahead, I've performed so poorly, it ought to be easy for you to put up my racist hidden notions. [SNIP]

When the only way you can defend your fetishization of the immigration issue is by rambling about crime, it's completely clear what you're doing: whether consciously or not, you have plugged yourself into the propaganda coming from very racist outlets using the issue of crime to dog-whistle.

Only to someone who sees a racist around every corner.



This is a sad, circular argument:

Challenge: Factually establish damage done by undocumented immigrants in the United States.

Response: It's obvious, they're undocumented.

What's the problem with being an undocumented person in the United States? As a hypothetical, try and explain what would be the damage done if we completely opened the borders to all comers.

Since I know this will confuse you, I am not for open borders. I have arguments and explanation for this position. I'm curious if you can provide the same for yours.

Another lie, you sure seem like you're for open borders, what's the harm?

Edited by kmortis: 

1) Fixed broken quote tag.
2) Removed to comply with Rule 12 & Rule 0

 

[logger]

Yes, but the point is that the bizarre conspiracy theory about Obama's birthplace, along with the accompanying "show me your papers" BS is simply one example of his racism.

No, it's hardball politics, but since you see a racist around every corner.....

Besides, if someone supports a racist organisation like black lives matter, it's a good bet they're a racist.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Most people understand that claims about the "cause" of any human behavior is, at best, an informed opinion. Even if Trump said he was a racist, he could be lying or just confused about his own motivations. In the end, racist is as racist does.

Which is why I said logger was kinda right. It isn't something proven. But proving why we do things is overrated.